Carl Nassib
- Thread starter jrl5019
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Nobody is condemning and ridiculing anyone who declined to participate. You have chosen to participate by posting here. And I'm not condemning you for your position. I just disagree with it and I'm letting you know that -- which is the point of having a discussion. I couldn't tell you the name of a single poster who has not participated in this thread. Nor would I condemn them for choosing to stay out of the conversation.
Agreed. the good news is, and I didn't read and digest every single post, I didn't see a single person who thought less of Carl for being gay or even coming out that he was gay. The worst I saw was that some thought it was not great that this was a newsworthy event or special in any way.
that is great progress, IMHO. Three years ago, there would have been a much different conversation.
BTW, I'd love to see @Marylovesthelions chime in.
What are your thoughts on Tim Tebow "keeping his sex life to himself?"
I think they started just South of the Mid-Atlantic. Definitely in the Richmond area for sure. Now up in Northern VA.
I find it interesting that you use the word "pressure" here. Why pressure. I don't feel pressure from any advertisement. How/why do you feel pressure?
Sent the in-laws on a cruise a number of years ago. Unbeknownst to us it was a designated "Gay" cruise. If you didn't know such things existed, there are several groups nationwide who try to organize LGBTQ+ focused events. First, obviously, is to make money for said groups, but second is to create a safe/welcoming atmosphere for their target clients. Important detail: father in-law is not exactly down with "the gays" and his only real complaint is similar to your paragraph: why do they need to advertise it? Just be gay in private and I'll be straight in private.
Now, the interesting thing about boats is that you are a set population once you leave port. Meaning the gay folks, not the straight folks, were the majority once this particular ship set sail. Suddenly my father in-law was the minority. He reacted as you might expect: "you 75%+ boat population stop doing gay things in front of me." We tried to explain to him that most of these people have to constantly watch what they say and do every minute of their public lives. Some have lost family, friends, and their religion. Others are probably dealing with a lifetime of guilt and shame. Suddenly, on this little boat for a short period of time, they can let it all go because the majority is just like them. Imagine the feeling and imagine how fortunate you are to rarely ever have to feel that way for being straight.
The point I am trying to make is that most of these people have few safe spaces to actually live their complete life in public because they are the overwhelming minority. Parades, flags, or anything else that supports their life journey is just a brief moment in time where they can feel safe, comforted, and free. That's all it is.
The bolded part is where the problem lies. When someone says it, subconsciously they don't really mean it. For example, they wouldn't have a problem with a hetero couple sitting on a park bench with their arms around each other. But for the most part they'd roll their eyes if a gay couple did the same. What they really mean is "nobody should do anything in public which makes me uncomfortable."
I’ll see your Zaxby’s and raise you a Raising Cane’s.
Do you show your wife affection in public? Hold hands, kiss, wear a wedding ring?
Funny, but I never gave a flying flamingo about other people’s sex lives. Too busy worrying about my own lack of one.
Dude, I LOVED this ^^^^ post. The thought of your (presumably) crusty old father-in-law on a gay cruise was hugely entertaining. Now tell us the truth: was booking your in-laws on that particular cruise truly an innocent mistake on your part?
Finally, can your FIL now do the YMCA dance?
I bet he would look away from the bench and not care. Where has he said they shouldn't be allowed to do anything?
I turned on the Celebrity Dating Game last night and it was a segment with all gay contestants. I didn't care to watch guys flirt with each other so I changed the channel. I'm sure they're all great people and they can do whatever they want. Now if there were 3 hot chicks sitting there I probably would have continued to watch. I don't think that's intolerant at all.
Exactly the case, but as Obli said, that generation just grew up in different times. My dad who grew up in Portage PA has said that numerous times and my reply would be if it was a man and woman, would you care. I will say though, it seems that maybe he has at least softened his stance over the years.
He was in his late 50s when this happened (had my wife younger than most). He is an above average looking guy and he still LOVES to flirt and be macho around women. He claims he got hit on "constantly" by the men and did not feel comfortable without my MIL on his arm. First, we told him not to flatter himself. And second, we tried to explain to him that maybe this experience would give him a better understanding of what women go through when he or other men unwantingly take a public, verbal sexual interest in them. We had mixed results with that one.
We only know it was a marketed gay cruise because my FIL called the cruise line to complain immediately afterward and wanted to know why no one told him this would be a gay charter. He was told that the cruise industry cannot tell people if certain ships are being marketed by third-parties to certain populations. So they could not state on the website or during the booking that the majority of the boat would be a specific sexual orientation. Not the answer he wanted. We all enjoyed listening to him trying to right this wrong however.
I have other stories from that cruise. One of the funniest moments of my life.
My FIL loves dancing. He could give some gay men a run for their money.
It's nice to see people discussing what is and is not considered brave in a respectful manner again, and recognizing that everyone agrees that being gay is not the issue. I remember not that long ago where gay people were prevented from being in parades in NYC, ultra liberal California was voting down gay marriage, Obama was against gay marriage, and Dick Cheney was one of the biggest proponents of gay rights. It's important to recognize the real progress that has been made, and that people really do agree on 95% of the issues. The last bit about what is considered brave will be debated on for eternity, and has been on this board for a plethora of issues. People just have different definitions and life experiences that mold those perceptions. If you try to tell someone their opinion is wrong, you're just being counterproductive to your supposed goal. Progress.
Whether you like it or not, celebrities and athletes have a lot of people that look up to them and listen to what they say. A celebrity has as much right as anyone else to make statements about their views on society. It is part of free speech.
If an athlete wants to come out of the closet and express it to the world, so be it. It is really a brave thing to do and may give others who are still in the closet the confidence to come out as well.
I find the people who complain about celebrities making their views known have no problem making their own views known to third parties but have a problem with celebrities making their views known because the celebrities have a bigger platform.
As to Renaldo's Coke incident, who is more qualified than an elite athlete to say drink water instead of Coke? Coke has no room to complain as they are in the celebrity game as well. How much did Coke's stock rise when Joe Green chugged a Coke and threw his jersey to the kid?
No, just a natural born Red. Not a big fan of this white and blue American flag stuff- why does blue have to hog the whole thing? They need to stick in their squares, man.
No confusion here, Gregg.
People are being pressured in ways subtle and not so subtle to embrace the new LGBTQ orthodoxy that now dominates the culture, government, media, corporate world, and even the military. That includes celebration of people like Carl for coming out. You can sometimes choose to keep your mouth shut. But you can't choose to openly dissent without paying a price.
If you're lucky, the price will merely take the form of ridicule and name-calling. The more severe variant, increasingly common, is losing a job or being targeted in a lawsuit.
I recently had a revealing debate on the other board with Lionbacker3 who's employed in a management position in the financial world and described a work environment governed by the LGBTQ agenda. At one company he knows, employees are "encouraged" to find ways to "express solidarity" with the cause. Most people would consider such a thing to be "pressure." It's important to understand this is not the exception...it's increasingly the rule.
I respect your disagreement and appreciate that it was expressed respectfully. In fact, I'm heartened that most of the comments in this thread on both sides of the issue (and in-between) were coherent and more or less respectful.
I'm not asking (or expecting) that people agree with my view...only for the right to express it -- a right that is coming under increasing attack as one side seeks to delegitimize dissenting opinions by branding them as bigoted. (Granted, there are some bigots and ignoramuses on "my side" of the argument, but they're in a minority, and nothing I've seen in this thread would reasonably qualify.)
It's an interesting thing that the ridicule, name-calling, and censorship appear to mostly come from the side that is supposedly enlightened and "tolerant." It's also interesting that the side presently having the overwhelming preponderance of power continues to pose as the victim of persecution and discrimination when the reality is precisely the opposite.
Jerry, I work in one of the most liberal industries in one of the most liberal places in America and I honestly have not ever once seen an "agenda".
Paragraph 1: I don't like it. That's what I stated. I think that people ought to think for themselves.
Paragraph 2: I have stated exactly this earlier in the thread.
Paragraph 3: You and I are infinitely more qualified to speak on almost all issues pertaining to everyday Americans than celebrities. They don't live in the same world with the same set of problems. I would argue that we are considerably more in tune with and better prepared to offer solutions to every day Americans.
Paragraph 4: I brought this incident up only to illustrate that an off the cuff remark had a $4 billion dollar impact. I don't drink soda and drink almost entirely water. I have nothing against Renaldo's choice. I was simply illustrating the impact.
Again, I don't know exactly what you are trying to say. I'm not sure if the word "they" that you use is a reference to Asian Americans or Homosexuals. Primarily this is because nearly all of your questions could have the exact same answer for either group.
It is clear that you dodged my question. Are Asian Americans victimized by being denied entry into colleges unless they have significantly higher scores and GPAs than other races?
You’re 100% correct. While at work I do not include myself in any conversation that discusses delicate subjects similar to this one. I’m even afraid to say “no comment” as it may be misconstrued by a disgruntled employee looking to create problems. Instead I use the usual “sorry I got to go, see you later.” The intimidation factor is no longer subtle, it’s loud and clear.
The LGTBQ "orthodoxy" to which you refer is simply the practice of treating other people like human beings, and keeping your judgmental bullsh!t to yourself when the topic is one upon which your judgment is uncalled for. I cannot say I am unaware of people who think this is too much trouble, or is somehow an imposition upon them, but I can say that when they display it, my respect for them dwindles.
If Carl Nassib, by announcing his sexuality, saves one 14 year old boy or girl from self-hatred or self harm, then it is more good than your self-satisfied judgment has ever accomplished.
All I see are are questions from you. Are you saying you answer the question with completely new questions?
Your "questioning" wreaks of the test board.
I have neither the time nor inclination to play.
I'm sure you can figure it out.
classic. I do Key West every new year and find the atmosphere to be as good as anything in the USA. And, for the most part, is pretty healthy. there are a lot of gay people but I don't fear for my life like going to any major city for NYE celebrations. It is a really healthy, for the most part, environment.
i do have to confess, the first year, I was a little concerned as we had some pre-teen kids with us. There was very little gross stuff and was inside clubs where it was visible. When you know those clubs, and it offends you (like any PDA) you know to avoid them.
well, I once worked for a company in Toronto that employed, maybe, 60% gay people? it was great. Day one I walked in to see their logo on a giant flag on the gay pride rainbow background. the problem is that they were so "woke" that they posted on LinkedIn and social media their open hiring practices and support for all kinds of social agendas. OK, no problem there, but when I suggested they spend more time trying to, like, make money (with zero references to promoting their social platforms) I learned it was time for me to go. They made a Linkedin post per day and I suggested they reserve three days for product and two for human rights.
They had raised over $30m in VC and had blown through more than half of it and the board was getting antsy. I left 18 months ago and know that nothing has improved (in terms of revenue). What is funny is that a lot of those who thought my focus on money was too conservative have since asked me if I would be a reference for them as they exit the company.
GREAT people though. Really fun place to work. I'll never forget those trips to London!
Wonder how many gay guys died on the beaches that day........guess we'll never know.
Talk me through your thought process on this comment.
I am not really following your logic.
Nor should we. There were no "Gay Guys", or "Italian guys", or "Black Guys", or "Christian Guys", or "Jewish Guys". All of them were "American Guys" and 2,501 gave the last full measure.
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