Carl Nassib

Jerry

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May 29, 2001
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Jerry, I work in one of the most liberal industries in one of the most liberal places in America and I honestly have not ever once seen an "agenda".

Funny thing about agendas, Gregg. They're harder to see when you share them because it all looks totally normal. Like, who could possibly object.

I worked for the government for almost 40 years and a few years ago (after retirement) saw a picture of my former office building bathed in rainbow colors for Pride month, something that once would have been considered an overtly ideological and thus totally inappropriate gesture.

However, the people who organized that presumably couldn't imagine they were imposing an "agenda": Agenda? What agenda? Don't all the right-thinking people agree on this? God knows what they're doing this month, but I'm just as glad not to be there to find out.
 
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Jerry

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May 29, 2001
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The LGTBQ "orthodoxy" to which you refer is simply the practice of treating other people like human beings, and keeping your judgmental bullsh!t to yourself when the topic is one upon which your judgment is uncalled for. I cannot say I am unaware of people who think this is too much trouble, or is somehow an imposition upon them, but I can say that when they display it, my respect for them dwindles.

If Carl Nassib, by announcing his sexuality, saves one 14 year old boy or girl from self-hatred or self harm, then it is more good than your self-satisfied judgment has ever accomplished.

Dem, please. The issue is not "treating other people like human beings." Believe it or not, even the vast majority of those with a viewpoint different from yours are in favor of that.

Rather, the issue is the liberty to think and speak according to conscience and conviction...within the bounds of decency and legality. That used to be a fundamental American right. Now: not so much.

Speaking of "judgmental bullshit," what about your habit of judging anyone who disagrees with you to be a bigot and cretin?

As for saving 14-year olds from self-hatred and self-harm, yeah, that sounds good as an imaginary debating point, but could you provide any evidence at all that there is a basis to it in reality? I'll wait.
 

nitneelyin

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Feb 4, 2004
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Talk me through your thought process on this comment.
I am not really following your logic.
Don't over think it. Carl chose to be the guy that said what most rational people already assumed, there are gay guys and have been for a long time (read about Jerry Smith with the Redskins in the 60's/70's) in the NFL, great. If there was only one gay guy on that beach that day that died (hell, even survived) we'll never know his story but his bravery is on a whole different level. Not to be equated to this. My opinion.
 
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nitneelyin

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Feb 4, 2004
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Nor should we. There were no "Gay Guys", or "Italian guys", or "Black Guys", or "Christian Guys", or "Jewish Guys". All of them were "American Guys" and 2,501 gave the last full measure.
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Excellent point.
 

GreggK

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Jan 19, 2002
12,539
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Don't over think it. Carl chose to be the guy that said what most rational people already assumed, there are gay guys and have been for a long time (read about Jerry Smith with the Redskins in the 60's/70's) in the NFL, great. If there was only one gay guy on that beach that day that died (hell, even survived) we'll never know his story but his bravery is on a whole different level. Not to be equated to this. My opinion.

Nobody was trying to equate it to the same.
There are obviously different levels of bravery.
 

MJG-90

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Jan 23, 2018
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I worked for the government for almost 40 years and a few years ago (after retirement) saw a picture of my former office building bathed in rainbow colors for Pride month, something that once would have been considered an overtly ideological and thus totally inappropriate gesture.

However, the people who organized that presumably couldn't imagine they were imposing an "agenda": Agenda? What agenda? Don't all the right-thinking people agree on this? God knows what they're doing this month, but I'm just as glad not to be there to find out.

Were you okay with them decorating for Christmas?
 

demlion

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Gold Member
Feb 4, 2004
44,547
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Dem, please. The issue is not "treating other people like human beings." Believe it or not, even the vast majority of those with a viewpoint different from yours are in favor of that.

Rather, the issue is the liberty to think and speak according to conscience and conviction...within the bounds of decency and legality. That used to be a fundamental American right. Now: not so much.

Speaking of "judgmental bullshit," what about your habit of judging anyone who disagrees with you to be a bigot and cretin?

As for saving 14-year olds from self-hatred and self-harm, yeah, that sounds good as an imaginary debating point, but could you provide any evidence at all that there is a basis to it in reality? I'll wait.
Other people's sexual practices are not a matter you have a say in. And if you did, I should think your church would have done a little better at slowing down its pedophile priests, since that was always criminal.

Here is a link from the Trevor Project, the charity to whom Carl is donating $100,000. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide/

One of the big drivers of youth suicide is loneliness and a feeling of not belonging. Carl Nassib's effort are likely to have an effect on those who are suffering from that.
 

LafayetteBear

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Dec 1, 2009
43,691
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It's an interesting thing that the ridicule, name-calling, and censorship appear to mostly come from the side that is supposedly enlightened and "tolerant."
Jerry: I happen to know from your posts on the Test Board that your reference to "sides" means liberals vs. conservatives. So conservatives are much less inclined to engage in ridicule, name calling and censorship? You post on the Test Board and you believe that?!! Either you are not reading the posts of your fellow conservatives or you simply do not notice when they engage in those things.
 

AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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Dem, please. The issue is not "treating other people like human beings." Believe it or not, even the vast majority of those with a viewpoint different from yours are in favor of that.

Rather, the issue is the liberty to think and speak according to conscience and conviction...within the bounds of decency and legality. That used to be a fundamental American right. Now: not so much.

Speaking of "judgmental bullshit," what about your habit of judging anyone who disagrees with you to be a bigot and cretin?

As for saving 14-year olds from self-hatred and self-harm, yeah, that sounds good as an imaginary debating point, but could you provide any evidence at all that there is a basis to it in reality? I'll wait.
Suicide is the third leading cause of death among teens and gay teens are four times more likely to attempt suicide. I’m not sure how anyone can doubt that young gay teams inflict self harm.
 

psuguy43

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Sep 28, 2002
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Jerry: I happen to know from your posts on the Test Board that your reference to "sides" means liberals vs. conservatives. So conservatives are much less inclined to engage in ridicule, name calling and censorship? You post on the Test Board and you believe that?!! Either you are not reading the posts of your fellow conservatives or you simply do not notice when they engage in those things.
One of the biggest bullies was their damn twice impeached president. Unbelievable statement to make
 

LafayetteBear

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2009
43,691
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Funny thing about agendas, Gregg. They're harder to see when you share them because it all looks totally normal. Like, who could possibly object.

I worked for the government for almost 40 years and a few years ago (after retirement) saw a picture of my former office building bathed in rainbow colors for Pride month, something that once would have been considered an overtly ideological and thus totally inappropriate gesture.

However, the people who organized that presumably couldn't imagine they were imposing an "agenda": Agenda? What agenda? Don't all the right-thinking people agree on this? God knows what they're doing this month, but I'm just as glad not to be there to find out.
Jerry: You don't like any particular interest group imposing its agenda on government, and cited the example of a government office building being "bathed in rainbow colors for a month."

So what would you say to a group of Christian citizens wanting to put up a manger scene at a government office building for the entire month of December? I'm just askin' ...
 

91Joe95

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Aug 15, 2003
27,562
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Well, I'm glad I got to learn a lot of nice things about Carl before people get this post deleted with their irrational intransigence.
 

thewholebit

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Mar 19, 2008
580
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Well, I'm glad I got to learn a lot of nice things about Carl before people get this post deleted with their irrational intransigence.
It’s a microcosm of the country. I’m an educated man, but if there is a future that doesn’t include secession, I’m not intelligent enough to envision it. The differences between us all are just too great.
 

Jerry

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May 29, 2001
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Other people's sexual practices are not a matter you have a say in. And if you did, I should think your church would have done a little better at slowing down its pedophile priests, since that was always criminal.

Here is a link from the Trevor Project, the charity to whom Carl is donating $100,000. https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/preventing-suicide/facts-about-suicide/

One of the big drivers of youth suicide is loneliness and a feeling of not belonging. Carl Nassib's effort are likely to have an effect on those who are suffering from that.

Another strawman. I never suggested that I do or should have a say in "other people's sexual practices." The point is whether I should be condemned for my response to an invitation to celebrate other people's sexual practices.

As for pedophile priests, a scandal of the Catholic Church rooted in the active homosexuality of traitorous clergy, that's a deflection on your part. But since you brought it up, is it OK to disapprove "other people's sexual practices" in that regard? I would say yes, but your own logic runs otherwise.

Thank you for the link. It's interesting and disturbing. I honestly don't know whether to accept all those purported statistics at face value, but let's say for the sake of argument that some of those studies are accurate and valid.

At the risk of making your head explode, let me ask a few questions outside the box of the prevailing narrative:

Is it possible that a young person's homosexuality creates internal conflicts that run more deeply than is reachable by the simple declaration of this or that celebrity or athlete?

Is it possible that the condition itself creates psychological instability in a certain segment of young gay people, producing insecurity and unhappiness that end in desperation and tragedy?

Why is it that the suicide rate in young people was far lower in preceding generations, say going back to the 1950's and earlier, though the rate of homosexuality in that population was presumably similar, societal disapproval much stronger, and discrimination much more real?

Why is it that the suicide rates among the young, homosexual or otherwise, are going up in recent years even as cultural acceptance of homosexuality has become the norm and moral standards governing sexuality have evaporated?

You gotta think outside the box, Dem, rather than swallow the narratives spoon-fed by our propaganda organs. Maybe in the end, young people are better off being given what they need, which is moral guidance and love, rather than what they want. Just a thought.
 

NittanyIllinois

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Aug 17, 2019
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Why is it that the suicide rates among the young, homosexual or otherwise, are going up in recent years even as cultural acceptance of homosexuality has become the norm and moral standards governing sexuality have evaporated?

Are you asking why numbers are higher?

(1) attempts are simply being reported more than they ever were before, in large part because such severe stigmas often prevented families from even admitting or acknowledging that homosexuality resulted in a suicide attempt, and (2) the prevalence of social media and the resultant increase in mental disorders across virtually all teen demographics.

Suicides are increasing among teens in general. Not just gay teens.

I know you think you found the "gotcha" to repudiate the assertion that normalization of homosexuality reduces the attraction of suicide for gay teens. But you really didn't.
 

The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
17,171
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An altered state
One of the biggest bullies was their damn twice impeached president. Unbelievable statement to make
The entire democrat leadership are bullies as is the the 1619 Project, wokeism, and critical race theory. The demand that every single white person admit that all white people are racist or be ostracized is the ultimate in bullying.
 

demlion

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Feb 4, 2004
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Another strawman. I never suggested that I do or should have a say in "other people's sexual practices." The point is whether I should be condemned for my response to an invitation to celebrate other people's sexual practices.

As for pedophile priests, a scandal of the Catholic Church rooted in the active homosexuality of traitorous clergy, that's a deflection on your part. But since you brought it up, is it OK to disapprove "other people's sexual practices" in that regard? I would say yes, but your own logic runs otherwise.

Thank you for the link. It's interesting and disturbing. I honestly don't know whether to accept all those purported statistics at face value, but let's say for the sake of argument that some of those studies are accurate and valid.

At the risk of making your head explode, let me ask a few questions outside the box of the prevailing narrative:

Is it possible that a young person's homosexuality creates internal conflicts that run more deeply than is reachable by the simple declaration of this or that celebrity or athlete?

Is it possible that the condition itself creates psychological instability in a certain segment of young gay people, producing insecurity and unhappiness that end in desperation and tragedy?

Why is it that the suicide rate in young people was far lower in preceding generations, say going back to the 1950's and earlier, though the rate of homosexuality in that population was presumably similar, societal disapproval much stronger, and discrimination much more real?

Why is it that the suicide rates among the young, homosexual or otherwise, are going up in recent years even as cultural acceptance of homosexuality has become the norm and moral standards governing sexuality have evaporated?

You gotta think outside the box, Dem, rather than swallow the narratives spoon-fed by our propaganda organs. Maybe in the end, young people are better off being given what they need, which is moral guidance and love, rather than what they want. Just a thought.
Wow. You are even more of a jackass than I thought. FYI, pedophilia is a CRIME. That's why it is not the same as what consenting people do. You are so consumed with bitterness about gay people that you failed to pay attention to kids being raped in your church. Are you a Michigan State fan? Sheesh.
 

BW Lion

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Apr 9, 2020
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My contribution to this thread before it gets zapped. The below link is funny

 

fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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Another strawman. I never suggested that I do or should have a say in "other people's sexual practices." The point is whether I should be condemned for my response to an invitation to celebrate other people's sexual practices.

You should have a say in how others live their lives though...

Questions of morality aside, because that's a different conversation which you and I have already had on the other board, I'm not advocating for Carl or anyone else to "go back in the closet." I'm saying let Carl live his life...without publicly inviting anyone else's approval or disapproval of it. Somewhere between hiding in the closet and public celebration there is a reasonable and sane middle ground.

Does this photo bother you?

Super+Bowl+XLIV+kU7lFyRxCD1x.jpg
 

Omar81

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Nov 12, 2014
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Jerry, I work in one of the most liberal industries in one of the most liberal places in America and I honestly have not ever once seen an "agenda".
Funny, because I worked in one of the most conservative industries and the last several years were a near constant bombardment of diversity, inclusion, repeated unconscious bias training (I could go on and on), and special employee groups, etc. that was most certainly an “agenda.” I would say the hiring and promotion practices bordered in the absurd, but they went so far that you could no longer see the border.
 
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fastlax16

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Funny, because I worked in one of the most conservative industries and the last several years were a near constant bombardment of diversity, inclusion, repeated unconscious bias training (I could go on and on), and special employee groups, etc. that was most certainly an “agenda.” I would say the hiring and promotion practices bordered in the absurd, but they went so far that you could no longer see the border.

Could you be more specific?
 

Omar81

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Nov 12, 2014
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Could you be more specific?
Oh, I could — but I doubt that you or anyone else would really be interested or even believe it. Suffice to say that being the best candidate for a job was not the top criterion used for new hires or promotions, much to the detriment of individual departments, business units, and the corporation as a whole — contributing in part to its stock price lagging way behind the market and its industry peers.
 

PSUHarry33

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Jul 15, 2003
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Dem, please. The issue is not "treating other people like human beings." Believe it or not, even the vast majority of those with a viewpoint different from yours are in favor of that.

Rather, the issue is the liberty to think and speak according to conscience and conviction...within the bounds of decency and legality. That used to be a fundamental American right. Now: not so much.

Speaking of "judgmental bullshit," what about your habit of judging anyone who disagrees with you to be a bigot and cretin?

As for saving 14-year olds from self-hatred and self-harm, yeah, that sounds good as an imaginary debating point, but could you provide any evidence at all that there is a basis to it in reality? I'll wait.
Holy Sh!t dude. You haven’t heard one story of a teenager committing suicide over a sexual identity crisis due to not being accepted by friends, parents, or being bullied? Where the hell do you live? How old are you? What is the address of your underground rock?
 

SoParkLion

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Sep 23, 2001
217
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I realize this is now a minority view here and everywhere, but I don't understand the popular compulsion these days for a person -- gay, straight, or some variety in-between -- to advertise their sexual orientation. Are we supposed to care? Applaud? Fall all over ourselves telling him or her how wonderful and brave they are?

Count me out. I really don't want to know. Just play friggin' football and keep your sex life to yourself.
Anchorman: I love lamp.
 

fastlax16

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Jan 1, 2014
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Those of you making it about sex are missing the point. It’s not about who he, or anyone, is having sex with or needing you to celebrate it. It’s about who they can have dinner in public with, hold hands with if they go on a walk, send out Christmas cards with, take a romantic vacation with. Kiss in public.

Most people probably don’t want to think about most you having sex with your wives either but you still have the freedom to do any of the above. Now Carl does to. He didn’t before.
 

Roar More

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Aug 19, 2004
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Jerry: You don't like any particular interest group imposing its agenda on government, and cited the example of a government office building being "bathed in rainbow colors for a month."

So what would you say to a group of Christian citizens wanting to put up a manger scene at a government office building for the entire month of December? I'm just askin' ...
Better still, how does Jerry feel about a Christian religious day being a federal holiday?
 

AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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Why is it that the suicide rate in young people was far lower in preceding generations, say going back to the 1950's and earlier, though the rate of homosexuality in that population was presumably similar, societal disapproval much stronger, and discrimination much more real?

Why is it that the suicide rates among the young, homosexual or otherwise, are going up in recent years even as cultural acceptance of homosexuality has become the norm and moral standards governing sexuality have evaporated?
In regards to your first paragraph it’s because back then they stayed in the closet where they belonged, amirite?

The answer to your second paragraph is because the “cultural acceptance” you keep espousing isn’t anywhere near the level you believe it is. And social media adds fuel to the fire. Sometimes you answer your own question and don’t even realize it.
 
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AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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Funny, because I worked in one of the most conservative industries and the last several years were a near constant bombardment of diversity, inclusion, repeated unconscious bias training (I could go on and on), and special employee groups, etc. that was most certainly an “agenda.” I would say the hiring and promotion practices bordered in the absurd, but they went so far that you could no longer see the border.
That’s the norm in most companies these days, but the LGBTQ community is not the primary focus of those programs….not even close.
 

AWS1022

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Nov 12, 2011
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Oh, I could — but I doubt that you or anyone else would really be interested or even believe it. Suffice to say that being the best candidate for a job was not the top criterion used for new hires or promotions, much to the detriment of individual departments, business units, and the corporation as a whole — contributing in part to its stock price lagging way behind the market and its industry peers.
I challenge you to give me a time when the best candidate for the job was the top criterion….nepotism, the good ole boy network, buddies, ass kissers, seniority….there have always been reasons for hiring and promotion that trumped ability.