Please don't get me wrong, I been PSU since the mid 70's so don't think I am a Hawk fan> I ask a question.
VA Tech/NC St., IA/OK St., MO/IA St. duals
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We are responding this way because your posts were unintelligible. No one’s mad at you, we just have no clue what you’re trying to say.
Go back and reread your posts.
John Nash from ' A beautiful mind ' might not have broken that code.
LOL , Ok guys we all love Penn State , Sorry. Ok I love Penn State. To many beers I guess. That you for not beating me down. '85
Don't let a little good-natured ribbing make you a stranger on the board. Ask away! Everyone is welcome that doesn't use a person's child to try and take shots at them.
."I don't think Gabe has anymore room to add muscle without significantly slowing himself down".
Geez, I thought the concept of "musclebound" died the ignominious death it deserved about 35 years ago.
Anthony Cassar packed on 30 plus pounds of muscle and didn't lose any speed.
I remind you of the NCAA final against White.
"Speed was a factor".
Assuming Cael and all his assistants are going to get bored winning?
Assume for a minute that happens, David Taylor already has experience developing wrestlers and then there's all those other repeat national champs who learned at the foot of the master.
And in other news:
157 - Will Lewan (Michigan) dec Johnny Lovett (Central Michigan) 3-2TB
165 - Cam Amine (Michigan) dec Tyler Swiderski (Central Michigan) 4-1SV
157 - Will Lewan (Michigan) dec Johnny Lovett (Central Michigan) 3-2TB
165 - Cam Amine (Michigan) dec Tyler Swiderski (Central Michigan) 4-1SV
I was really impressed with what Gabe did this year. Went 3-1 against top 15 guys with 3 of those matches up at 184 where he was tiny. Two wins over AAs and still a lot of room for improvement.
His defense and grit set a very high floor. His offensive development will determine the ceiling. I’ve watched a ton of Gabe the past 5 years and was impressed with the offensive improvements he made this season. Leg attacks were really crisp and he finished better than I expected.
Cassar is not a good example. He weighed 218 at nationals when he won the title. So in reality he gained some muscle and stopped cutting to 197.
Snyder is a much better example. He weighed around 230-235 as a HWT. He definitely did not lose speed/quickness after moving up from 197.
I agree with your point in general, and also agree that Arnold isn't slowing himself with more muscle. There are examples of it happening, but it's a far greater weight gain than what Arnold might do. Spencer Myers was far slower his SR year, when he had to cut weight from being a 290-lb DE, than his FR year when he weighed closer to 220. Arnold isn't gaining 70 lb.
Lewan wins without an offensive point. Is anyone other than Lovett surprised? Was anyone awake?
218 lbs??? That's a new one for me. He was as big as 235ish when he won it, I think he was closer to 228-230 in the tourneys. Heck he might have been within earshot of 218 walking around weight when he wrestled 197.
How big are the big guys at the 2019 NCAAs? - WIN Magazine
Photo: Penn State’s Anthony Cassar and Minnesota’s Gable Steveson are seeded second and third at the 2019 NCAAs after reaching the Big Ten finals two weeks ago. The Nittany Lion weighed in at 228.2 pounds while the Gopher checked in at 257.8 two hours before the start of nationals in Pittsburgh...
www.win-magazine.com
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You're right, it was 228. Typo, I'm terrible on my phone and don't catch everything. Thanks for getting it right.218 lbs??? That's a new one for me. He was as big as 235ish when he won it, I think he was closer to 228-230 in the tourneys. Heck he might have been within earshot of 218 walking around weight when he wrestled 197.
How big are the big guys at the 2019 NCAAs? - WIN Magazine
Photo: Penn State’s Anthony Cassar and Minnesota’s Gable Steveson are seeded second and third at the 2019 NCAAs after reaching the Big Ten finals two weeks ago. The Nittany Lion weighed in at 228.2 pounds while the Gopher checked in at 257.8 two hours before the start of nationals in Pittsburgh...
But I'll stand by my points that a lot of it was no longer cutting, and that Snyder weighed more still (also on a shorter frame) and thus was a better example.
In other news…
Gabe Arnold has officially challenged Carter Starocci to an exhibition wrestling match. Said it must occur in the next day or two. Suspects Carter will probably chicken out since he is so obviously overrated.
Gabe Arnold has officially challenged Carter Starocci to an exhibition wrestling match. Said it must occur in the next day or two. Suspects Carter will probably chicken out since he is so obviously overrated.
Cassar had the skeletal frame to add beneficial muscle. Gabe is already built like a tank with a smaller frame. Imo would be difficult for him to add beneficial muscle.
Does KOT missing the Iowa St dual increase the likelihood that him and Carr are on opposite sides of the bracket at NCAAs?
They will most likely end up in the finals of the Big 12 tourney. KOT wins and he’s the 1 for sure. If Mesenbrink wins Big 10’s he should be 2 and Carr 3. Unless Ramirez wins EIWA and he would have head to head over Carr and only 2 losses as well. Could put Carr at 4.
If Carr wins then it would get interesting. Carr would have head to head which is 25% of the seeding criteria. He would also have higher qualifying finish. Then it would come down to final coaches rankings and RPI along with quality wins.
If KOT and Carr meet in the Big12 finals do you think the winner of that match will be the 1 seed at NCAAs regardless of what happens at Big10s?
Gabe Arnold is 5' 7"
174 is his sweet spot. 184 was just a team move with his 5 eligible matches.
I'm surprised his height hasn't been made fun of more
174 is his sweet spot. 184 was just a team move with his 5 eligible matches.
I'm surprised his height hasn't been made fun of more
This is a wrestling board. It’s unlikely there are a lot of 6’5” giants here. LOL.
O'Toole obviously. The question is if Carr wins.
That's a tough call right now. It may boil down to who gets the higher Coaches' Rank. Wrestlestat RPI (as noted above should be identical) has Carr 1 and Psycho 2. Guessing Carr would have an edge in Quality Wins because there are more top guys in B12, but that's a guess, Quality Wins math is pretty convoluted.
I suspect that if Carr beats O'Toole, the coaches will give him the 1. He's a past champ and would've beaten the current champ.
Current RPI 165
1 Carr
2 Mesenbrink
3 O’Toole
4 Hamiti
5 Caliendo
6 Olejnik
7 Ramirez
If O’Toole wins Big 12 and Mesenbrink wins Big 10 you would run them through the seeding criteria.
Head to Head. Each get 25
Quality Wins. TBD. 20%
Qualifying tourney finish. Each get 15
Results against common opponents. Each get 10. One common opponent is Ryan Money from Maryland.
RPI. TBD. 10 points
Coaches ranking. TBD. 10 points.
Win%. Each get 10.
If they split coaches ranking and RPI then it comes down to quality wins.
Mitch would have a better chance if Carr wins because he would get all 10 for win%. It would come down to quality wins and how the coaches and RPI play out. They currently have 2 common opponents, Amine and Caliendo who they both beat.
Good stuff. Carr has wins over the following top 30 RPI
4 Hamiti
5 Caliendo
6 Olejnik
9 Thompson
12 Hall
14 Amine
17 Garvin
29 Heller
Mesenbrink RPI wins
5 Caliendo
8 Lillard
10 Taylor
13 Cassella
14 Amine
18 Fish
22 Hepner
Carr would have another with a win over O’Toole and Mesenbrink would have Hamiti.
To me it looks like as long as Carr and O’Toole make the Big12 finals, they’ll most likely be on opposite sides of the bracket for NCAAs. I believe even if Carr loses he gets the 3 seed over Ramirez. Ramirez would have the H2H and qualifying event placement while Carr would have common opponent, coaches rank, quality wins, RPI and win% (both would have 2 losses Carr would have 1 more win). And if Carr wins I believe he would get the 1 seed over Mitchell with coaches rank, quality wins and RPI going to Carr.
True enough. I know you know this, it's for everybody else's benefit: NCAA seeding doesn't weigh all "Quality Wins" the same -- which is appropriate. Some wins are better than others. So they're tiered.
Offhand without going thru the tiering criteria: O'Toole, Hamiti, Caliendo, Olejnik would all be Tier 1-2. Lillard, Thompson, and Taylor might make Tier 2, no worse than Tier 3. (5 tiers total.)
Carr would likely have the most wins at the highest tiers, and therefore more likely to win this category (though Psycho would get partial credit).
But again: mega-convoluted math.
OT, but speaking of NCAA seeding criteria: real good chance Cohlton Schultz gets seeded 6th or lower.
He's only 7-1 this year, so he won't get an RPI.
He loses H2H to Bastida.
He'll definitely lose Coaches' Rank to Kerk, Hendrickson, and Bastida. With so few matches and no big wins, possibly also to Elam and Davison.
He'll lose Win % to Kerk, Hendrickson, and Bastida. Elam beats him by finishing 3rd at B12s. Ghadiali beats him by winning SoCon.
And his Quality Wins score won't be very good. After Pac 12s he'll have 5 wins over NCAA qualifiers, but most will be in the lower tiers. Make that 4 wins if Pitzer's shoulder injury is (as expected) season-ending.
Put it all together, and it's pretty easy to see him outside the top 5 seeds.
Agreed, and at a certain point you realize that you need a certain amount of limb length to compete effectively. Outside of a few outliers (Boo Dryden) in every weight other than 285, you are typically going to face guys who are within a couple inches of your height.
Sure it's great to be a strong wrestler but like any other attribute, it's subject to the law of diminishing (and even decreasing) marginal returns. Wrestlers need strength, but they have to balance that with cardiovascular fitness, flexibility and other physical abilities.
For those who might be interested in seeing some of these Iowa/OkSt matchups for themselves. I thought Caliendo looked especially good.
Fix looked terrible in the 3rd period. Ran out of juice
Yeah, Teske realized how gassed he was too late in the third. With another minute, he might have won. Fix seems to be heading towards the typical result for a 7+ year senior.
Should we start a new thread for that. Asking for a friend from johnstown?
He's built like Matt Brown. I don't know if he has Browns tenacity . He was nasty on top.
Fix could be in trouble if someone puts a good ride on him in second period. Do we know any 133 pounder good on top 🤔
That should have been an easy MD.
Hence Cael's? observation that wrestling is easy until you get tired.
Hilarious that everyone is playing Turk's "juice" line straight, rather than as intended.
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