FC/OT: Game of Thrones S8E3 - ‘The Long Night’ - Discussion Thread...

[Kiber]

Questions & theories moving onto next week.....

> At the very end of Sunday night. After Arya shanked the NK and all the WW and Wights disintegrated ... and it showed people starting to move realizing that the fight was somehow won and they were going to live .... They showed the group of people -- maybe 10 or 15 -- who were down in the crypts (I believe Tyrion was front & center in this group) seemingly staring at something. This group was expressionless but definitely fixated on the same thing.....

You guys all think that is the major clue moving forward that when Leanna Stark's crypt broke open something huge was revealed???

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

You're right of course. It's just that to me, Joffrey's and Ramsey's deaths weren't that satisfying. Didn't really get to see Ramsey suffer and didn't really know who poisoned Joffrey. The High Sparrow's death was disappointing because it cost so dearly;


To me the most satisfying deaths of bad characters at the hands of a good character were all thanks to Arya, with Littlefinger's death being the best.

Margaery was indeed a huge loss for the shows 'hotness' quotient. That said, Joffrey's death was FANTASTIC!! If you dug a bit after the show you could figure out who poisoned Joffrey - it happens in plain sight. But, if not, when Olenna Tyrell admits it to Jaime it's even more satisfying. That Sansa did it unknowingly is a bonus.

 

[palmettolion]

Margaery was indeed a huge loss for the shows 'hotness' quotient. That said, Joffrey's death was FANTASTIC!! If you dug a bit after the show you could figure out who poisoned Joffrey - it happens in plain sight. But, if not, when Olenna Tyrell admits it to Jaime it's even more satisfying. That Sansa did it unknowingly is a bonus.

Wait, how the hell did I miss that? I'm going back and rewatching that for sure. Agree on Olenna telling Jaime, it's just that you had to wait so long for the payoff. Arya and Sansa setting up Littlefinger will always be tops for me. His smugness quickly turning to confusion then to begging once he realized he was effed, along with Arya's efficiency was all so perfect.

 

[palmettolion]

Questions & theories moving onto next week.....

> At the very end of Sunday night. After Arya shanked the NK and all the WW and Wights disintegrated ... and it showed people starting to move realizing that the fight was somehow won and they were going to live .... They showed the group of people -- maybe 10 or 15 -- who were down in the crypts (I believe Tyrion was front & center in this group) seemingly staring at something. This group was expressionless but definitely fixated on the same thing.....

You guys all think that is the major clue moving forward that when Leanna Stark's crypt broke open something huge was revealed???

Interesting thought. I just figured they were shocked by the carnage. I'm also curious if the little girl with the burns on her face survived, the possible little bird of Cersei's.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I agree and in a prior post pointed out all that I thought was right with the episode, and I think they do a phenomenal job with the show at large. And I fully understand the limitations that the show writers have to deal with versus Martin.

With that said, I think the show actually did a pretty good job of handling the complexities in the first few seasons when they were tracking the books. Once they no longer had source material to work with, I feel those complexities have been marginalized to various degrees -- the most blatant example being with the NK story line. It's a minor critique for a show that I think is otherwise hugely enjoyable and well written.

+1. I can only assume GRRM knows in considerable detail where the rest of the books will come out as I understand (well) that the manuscript for the remaining stories was provided. He’s also there to consult, answer questions, etc. So I think they have more than enough source material and consulting opportunities than they should need. I suspect that what we’re seeing re the night king (and the 3-eyed raven, franken-mountain and citadel issues) is more likely the result of a relatively short final season combined with a storyline that would have taken two seasons to cover more adequately, like the way I believe book 3 was broken into two seasons on HBO. Going on memory here, but I think that was the book that ran 2 seasons. I think several others could have been the same.

Anyway, I think several of these late not-yet-released/completed books could have been lengthened on screen. But imho, I think the focus on the major families, characters and politics, with less focus on the supernatural except as important background, was a smart play by HBO/producers in creating the mass appeal. The sci-fi stuff is really cool, but can (and likely will ) be dealt with in greater detail separately for those interested. I mean, there’s already an entire separate book in house Targ alone. I think there’s likely plenty of source material. The gaps are only issues for a minority of us. The rest just loved that episode full of downright awesome. Major success.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Wait, how the hell did I miss that? I'm going back and rewatching that for sure. Agree on Olenna telling Jaime, it's just that you had to wait so long for the payoff. Arya and Sansa setting up Littlefinger will always be tops for me. His smugness quickly turning to confusion then to begging once he realized he was effed, along with Arya's efficiency was all so perfect.

Open a takes a poisonous stone from Sansa’s necklace. You don’t see her put it on his wine but it’s enough. They did a great job of setting that up with the Fool and everything.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

But it's hardly the first clash with the dead. There was Hardhome before this. I just don't see what the alternative was. A series of minor skirmishes? Retreating to some other location? How would a second battle be plausible once this one was lost. It would have been more absurd for this to have been some series of battles, since every person who dies on the good side becomes part of the NK's army. So it had to end in one fight, or else the NK wins and it's over.





I know the good character deaths stand out more, but it was Ned and then Robb/Catelyn. Other than those (the last of which was way back in season 3), has there really been this unending string of good main characters dying? Meanwhile, Joffrey, the high sparrow, Ramsey, Frey, Dany's brother, etc form a much longer list of main bad characters who meet their end.



Only if the NK shoots first...



I was thinking exactly the same. When they have very little army left and she's being told the people of King's Landing will stand up against her and she has dragons....if they won't bend the knee, burn them all.



Even the writers of the show didn't think it was a spoiler since they put it in the previews... It's not like they give away cliffhangers in the previews.

I may be in the minority here but I don’t assume the people of kings landing hold much allegiance to Cersei. I mean, it wasn’t long ago in this saga she was marched through the streets and shamed and ridiculed by those very people. The sparrows WERE the people. That she slaughtered a bunch of them and their leadership (including her own family, their then royals) didn’t give me cause to believe they support her or would defend her with their lives. The lanister army loyal to her was decimated so she bought a new one. I see Jon’s/dany’s fight as more political and/or v Cersei, uron and the Golden Co than v the ruled within King’s landing.

I might be wrong. The masses are fickle. We’ll see.

EDiT: besides, if the Golden Co is truly bought and paid for, we may be wrong in assume they’ll be loyal to her or even stick around to get torched by the dragons. I mean, she didn’t even seem to have much bargaining power to insist on elephants when they didn’t arrive. She ordered and expected and may have even paid for them. No elephants. The storyline with Cersei may be resolved very quickly, with other important stuff filling in the rest of what remains. Who knows.

 

[NedFromYork]

I thought the Lannister army was occupying Riverrun and High Garden?

 

[canuckhal]

No it doesn’t. Last time you see Sam he is laying down crying with the dead fighting all around him. The night king was still alive. You do not see him afterwards. Like i said thanks for the spoiler.

You must not watch too many movies or tv shows. If a character is not killed on-screen, especially a major character like Sam, he isn't dead. A la the Hound. And sometimes you may think someone is dead even if shown dead from a character's point of view, the person may not be dead, a la Halloween.

Anyway, this is a thread on the episode. Speculation, theories, and discussion about future episodes is fine with me. And yes, that includes previews and what writers have to say about the episode.

 

[djr4rebs]

Lots of good folks, but minor characters. Lots of minor characters also died in the Battle for Winterfell, but everyone is treating it as disappointing because more main characters didn't die. My point being that the show doesn't kill off the good main characters quite as often as folks suggest.

One key difference here, compared to most any other scenario:

This was the battle they've been building to since the opening scene of the show. A supernatural being with the power to kill and employ the dead in his stead. The actual epitome of death, marching without rest.

And relatively, only two characters of, roughly, the second tier (Jorah is fringe tier 1) died. For such an ominous opening, the fate of these characters did not match. That is all.

 

[canuckhal]

Why is GOT the greatest? Just take a look at all these reactions around the world.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-arya-night-king

 

[canuckhal]

How? That doesn't make any sense. Granted, we're talking about wizards and dragons here, so how much "sense" is there ... but, still, how does she take the body and become someone entirely not like her? It must be magic, no? In the show, don't they only show "masks"?

Well, if she just took their face, she could only fool somebody by taking the face of someone with the same body type and height. In essence, she would be hiding her face.

I'm not sure how this works. When she visited the Frey's, she took the face someone he did not recognize. Same with the first dude she killed on her list that got her in trouble. Has she taken the face and form of someone much larger and would be recognizable to another person?

 

[canuckhal]

Agreed. That was probably the biggest let down of the episode. But this is one of the few scratches on the bumper of an otherwise pristine RR silver ghost.

Bran was a sitting duck and both the battle and war were essentially won. So the single victor upon whom the entire dead civilization rests dangles himself out there totally exposed. He was surrounded by his whole army yet nobody’s there to protect him or cover his back in two (actually 3) pending hand-to-hand situations. Just too Laissez-faire. Hubris and stupidity killed the night king as much as Arya.

I’d have liked the theory of Arya playing faceless Bran and getting that close as lame prey better than her just passing the entire army unabated. But again, this is splitting hairs.

This type of analysis reminds me of an article I read with some people discussing the military tactics and then picking apart the show. Dothraki should have been used as Calvary at the ends. The catapults were used wrong. The moat was too close and the infantry should have been behind the moat.

It is a TV show. The writers want to tell a story from the character's view and to elicit emotion, suspense, dread, intensity. It isn't a documentary on how war should be conducted.

The ending was perfect as realized by people's reactions. Arya started confident and kicked ass. Then became scared and had to be saved. Only to be given a pep talk and become bad ass again. And to do it by surprise (yes), only to be caught (oh shit), drop knife (double oh shit), and then to catch it and knife the NK. Glorious!

As for Jon running around. He was trying to get to Bran and the NK and served at least two purposes. If you watch his progression, he is the link to show the other characters: Jaime and Brienne, Greyworm, Sam so that we know they were alive. He passed them all running through winterfell. And secondly, he was a misdirection.

 

[razpsu]

You must not watch too many movies or tv shows. If a character is not killed on-screen, especially a major character like Sam, he isn't dead. A la the Hound. And sometimes you may think someone is dead even if shown dead from a character's point of view, the person may not be dead, a la Halloween.

Anyway, this is a thread on the episode. Speculation, theories, and discussion about future episodes is fine with me. And yes, that includes previews and what writers have to say about the episode.

I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine. Can you just leave well enough alone. Does it hurt for someone to say that they do not want spoilers from next weeks trailer to be shared? Who is to say that there are characters that didn’t survive that maybe we do not know about because they didn’t show everyone after the nk died. Can we leave to imagination or speculation rather than the fact that we just have to know now by watching the trailers or who knows maybe someone knows someone who writes for the show. Why blow it for everyone else. If you like i can tell everyone what happens for the avengers end game etc just because i have seen it. Why do that. As i said speculate what we think may happen is fine but knowing what is going to happen is something else and ruins it for others.
Not a huge deal but some people may be happy if it wasn’t spoiled for them.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Questions & theories moving onto next week.....

> At the very end of Sunday night. After Arya shanked the NK and all the WW and Wights disintegrated ... and it showed people starting to move realizing that the fight was somehow won and they were going to live .... They showed the group of people -- maybe 10 or 15 -- who were down in the crypts (I believe Tyrion was front & center in this group) seemingly staring at something. This group was expressionless but definitely fixated on the same thing.....

You guys all think that is the major clue moving forward that when Leanna Stark's crypt broke open something huge was revealed???

Jon's Daddy's lute was rumored to be there.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine. Can you just leave well enough alone. Does it hurt for someone to say that they do not want spoilers from next weeks trailer to be shared? Who is to say that there are characters that didn’t survive that maybe we do not know about because they didn’t show everyone after the nk died. Can we leave to imagination or speculation rather than the fact that we just have to know now by watching the trailers or who knows maybe someone knows someone who writes for the show. Why blow it for everyone else. If you like i can tell everyone what happens for the avengers end game etc just because i have seen it. Why do that. As i said speculate what we think may happen is fine but knowing what is going to happen is something else and ruins it for others.
Not a huge deal but some people may be happy if it wasn’t spoiled for them.

Teasers for upcoming episodes are hardly spoilers, but if you think they are, you ought to avoid forums where the show is discussed.

Do you watch the "previously on GoT" segment just before the episode airs? That's far more spoilery. They often recap & show a scenefrom years ago, and signal something significant is happening there. For just one example, BenHen stark was off the show for 5 seasons, and then they recap his scene. More spoilery than showing him in a teaser, I'd say.

 

[8th Man]

Spoiler!


Arya could be Azor Ahai.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Wait, how the hell did I miss that? I'm going back and rewatching that for sure. Agree on Olenna telling Jaime, it's just that you had to wait so long for the payoff. Arya and Sansa setting up Littlefinger will always be tops for me. His smugness quickly turning to confusion then to begging once he realized he was effed, along with Arya's efficiency was all so perfect.

"How do you plead ...................................................Lord Baelish?

 

[wbcincy]

I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine. Can you just leave well enough alone. Does it hurt for someone to say that they do not want spoilers from next weeks trailer to be shared? Who is to say that there are characters that didn’t survive that maybe we do not know about because they didn’t show everyone after the nk died. Can we leave to imagination or speculation rather than the fact that we just have to know now by watching the trailers or who knows maybe someone knows someone who writes for the show. Why blow it for everyone else. If you like i can tell everyone what happens for the avengers end game etc just because i have seen it. Why do that. As i said speculate what we think may happen is fine but knowing what is going to happen is something else and ruins it for others.
Not a huge deal but some people may be happy if it wasn’t spoiled for them.

The writers essentially intend for previews to be part of what you know at the end of this episode. I don’t know a single person who has ever considered previews for next episode as spoilers, because they don’t ever include any. The writers would never allow spoilers in a preview. I accept you feel differently, but a message board is not going to be place for you if you feel that way, because the other 99.999% of people don’t agree it’s a spoiler and want to discuss it.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Spoiler!


Arya could be Azor Ahai.

View embedded media

Pretty cool. Couple of items from that...

1. Do we know where the first wight comes from in S1E1? Aren't they all north of the wall at this point? Just jogged my memory when watching...

2. Sort of missed when watching live is the hair blowing on the head of one of the WW's as Arya blows past him in silence. F'n awesome.

3. Also love that the name of the most recent episode was 'The Long Night', which Melisandre references in an earlier episode...

 

[wbcincy]

One thing that is impossible for the show's writers to live up to: the amount of online discussion between episodes. They get one hour a week to tell the story. Meanwhile, reddit, online publications, and message boards spend the next 140 hours discussing all sorts of convoluted storylines that may be possible (some of which are very cool, but often times they result in an expectation of something very complex that is much simpler - i.e., Bran is the Night King). The first 5 seasons didn't face this problem because the books already existed.

 

[razpsu]

Yep that is why i go dark. No different that avengers Star Wars john wick Godzilla. Since i have watched and rewatched a million movies I can figure out previews pretty quick. Avengers started at 6. I took my seat at 620. Lol.

 

[wbcincy]

Why is GOT the greatest? Just take a look at all these reactions around the world.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-arya-night-king

It's sad to think this may be the last communal television experience we have (absent sports).

 

[razpsu]

Teasers for upcoming episodes are hardly spoilers, but if you think they are, you ought to avoid forums where the show is discussed.

Do you watch the "previously on GoT" segment just before the episode airs? That's far more spoilery. They often recap & show a scenefrom years ago, and signal something significant is happening there. For just one example, BenHen stark was off the show for 5 seasons, and then they recap his scene. More spoilery than showing him in a teaser, I'd say.

Yes I did that and you are right they showed something from forever ago and that episode was right in line with that. I dvr it and watch 10 min after or so. Tuck kids in so that helps.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

One thing that is impossible for the show's writers to live up to: the amount of online discussion between episodes. They get one hour a week to tell the story. Meanwhile, reddit, online publications, and message boards spend the next 140 hours discussing all sorts of convoluted storylines that may be possible (some of which are very cool, but often times they result in an expectation of something very complex that is much simpler - i.e., Bran is the Night King). The first 5 seasons didn't face this problem because the books already existed.

Good point. Even in the video posted above, which may or may not be right about Arya, is mostly put together to get clicks. The next thing people will beat to death is the prophecy concerning Cersei. Let the fun begin!

 

[wbcincy]

Yep that is why i go dark. No different that avengers Star Wars john wick Godzilla. Since i have watched and rewatched a million movies I can figure out previews pretty quick. Avengers started at 6. I took my seat at 620. Lol.

And I'm the guy done with my popcorn before the movie even starts!

 

[razpsu]

It's sad to think this may be the last communal television experience we have (absent sports).

You are right. Well walking dead is back in the fall and I watched Yellowstone last year and it was ok. Turning into Dallas though.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

It's sad to think this may be the last communal television experience we have (absent sports).

Certainly never be another show like this, unless the new 'prequel' can live up to the expectations of GoT fans worldwide (and maybe it will). Netflix has sort of ruined communal TV watching with it's binge philosophy, which I don't mind, but does sort of take away from the discussion and anticipation of more traditional television distribution. Lost, The Soprano's, Game of Thrones, and True Detective all allowed for falling in a rabbit hole, which was awesome.

 

[razpsu]

And I'm the guy done with my popcorn before the movie even starts!

Don’t laugh but my kids and i don’t touch popcorn or candy until the movie starts. Can’t make this stuff up. I think it is because I used to devour everything before the move started and then i was pissed half way thru or running to the bathroom. Dances with wolves and braveheart, 3 hours of running to the bathroom. Lol

 

[wbcincy]

You are right. Well walking dead is back in the fall and I watched Yellowstone last year and it was ok. Turning into Dallas though.

Walking Dead was that way, but it's trailed off so much since the show got pretty bad (IMO). I used to have to avoid the internet the day after I missed an episode or I'd inevitably see what happened. Now I haven't watched the past 6 episodes, was online every day, and have no idea what has happened.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Certainly never be another show like this, unless the new 'prequel' can live up to the expectations of GoT fans worldwide (and maybe it will). Netflix has sort of ruined communal TV watching with it's binge philosophy, which I don't mind, but does sort of take away from the discussion and anticipation of more traditional television distribution. Lost, The Soprano's, Game of Thrones, and True Detective all allowed for falling in a rabbit hole, which was awesome.

I strongly suspect Netflix is paying a price for this. Most other platforms seem to get the idea that bingeing to catch up is important but weekly releases build excitement and conversation, sans spoilers.

And for annual series, if one binges a season in a weekend, they are less likely to recall details next season. If it plays out over 12, 16 episodes, it's far less time to be lost to memory between end and restart

 

[DingerzForDaze]

I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine. Can you just leave well enough alone. Does it hurt for someone to say that they do not want spoilers from next weeks trailer to be shared? Who is to say that there are characters that didn’t survive that maybe we do not know about because they didn’t show everyone after the nk died. Can we leave to imagination or speculation rather than the fact that we just have to know now by watching the trailers or who knows maybe someone knows someone who writes for the show. Why blow it for everyone else. If you like i can tell everyone what happens for the avengers end game etc just because i have seen it. Why do that. As i said speculate what we think may happen is fine but knowing what is going to happen is something else and ruins it for others.
Not a huge deal but some people may be happy if it wasn’t spoiled for them.

Previews, that are broadcast during (immediately following), the broadcast, are not spoilers. Either are trailers for movies. That was the point.

Your commentary re Avengers Endgame makes no sense, as there have been numerous trailers for the movie, and there is ZERO equivalence between spoiling what happens throughout an entire movie, and seeing a preview (for a movie or TV show).

Proper equivalence would be you threatening to divulge what happened in an Avengers Endgame trailer. And if you made such a "threat," no one would care. Divulge away.

As to this: "I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine." That's an incredibly immature comment. You might as well say that your dad can beat up his dad. Regardless, I can imagine you sitting in front of 5 screens, all playing different movies, and watching all of them at the same time, never repeating a movie while you stay up 24/7/365. So, you watched more movies than that?

 

[razpsu]

lol

 

[AWS1022]

Don’t laugh but my kids and i don’t touch popcorn or candy until the movie starts. Can’t make this stuff up. I think it is because I used to devour everything before the move started and then i was pissed half way thru or running to the bathroom. Dances with wolves and braveheart, 3 hours of running to the bathroom. Lol

I have always had that rule with my kids. We can’t eat the popcorn until the movie starts. My kids are grown now and they still follow that rule. Most people tell me I’m crazy, but the popcorn is to eat during the movie, plain and simple. I’m glad to hear someone else does it too.

 

[hlstone]

Could anyone do a meme of Who did it better. Lavar vs Arya. ? 2 best leaps imo.

 

[Talpsu]

No they showed him again after stabbing and he was crying and that was last time they showed him before nk died. Go back and watch again. I dvrd it and went back and watched last ten min.
At this point i have moved on. Just don’t like people watching scenes from next episode and saying stuff about it. Serves little purpose.

youre wrong on this buddy. they showed sam after the nk died

 

[Talpsu]

Questions & theories moving onto next week.....

> At the very end of Sunday night. After Arya shanked the NK and all the WW and Wights disintegrated ... and it showed people starting to move realizing that the fight was somehow won and they were going to live .... They showed the group of people -- maybe 10 or 15 -- who were down in the crypts (I believe Tyrion was front & center in this group) seemingly staring at something. This group was expressionless but definitely fixated on the same thing.....

You guys all think that is the major clue moving forward that when Leanna Stark's crypt broke open something huge was revealed???

Put me in the I do camp. Im a firm believer in that and have been saying since episode 2 that they all break out of the tombs and they find something in her tomb to prove he is her son

 

[Talpsu]

Interesting thought. I just figured they were shocked by the carnage. I'm also curious if the little girl with the burns on her face survived, the possible little bird of Cersei's.

I think they showed her next to varis. I initally thought she was one on the ground getting killed but they showed her later it looked like

 

[Talpsu]

I watch more and have watched more Movies than you can ever imagine. Can you just leave well enough alone. Does it hurt for someone to say that they do not want spoilers from next weeks trailer to be shared? Who is to say that there are characters that didn’t survive that maybe we do not know about because they didn’t show everyone after the nk died. Can we leave to imagination or speculation rather than the fact that we just have to know now by watching the trailers or who knows maybe someone knows someone who writes for the show. Why blow it for everyone else. If you like i can tell everyone what happens for the avengers end game etc just because i have seen it. Why do that. As i said speculate what we think may happen is fine but knowing what is going to happen is something else and ruins it for others.
Not a huge deal but some people may be happy if it wasn’t spoiled for them.

but they did! they showed every character some were silouettes but they showed everyone

 

[Talpsu]

Jon's Daddy's lute was rumored to be there.[/QUOTE

harp