This one might be easy.. The NK does the deed to inherit or absorb the power of his victim right?
Obviously they moved at wight speed from the umber castle to Winterfell......
One has a knee. The other has a shoulder.
Could be The Dead’s best studio album of all. Every song is good or great and have been mainstays in their live shows for years.
No it doesn’t. Last time you see Sam he is laying down crying with the dead fighting all around him. The night king was still alive. You do not see him afterwards. Like i said thanks for the spoiler.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Do most people really not watch the preview? I feel like I HAVE to watch it. GoT is rarely vague when it comes to death. I guess they sort of did it with Tormund and everyone at the wall last year, and maybe Stannis, but if someone even semi-important dies they typically give the character an appropriate and certain death. Like the ones in this episode - no doubt who isn't coming back.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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If he was alive when you last saw him, hardly a spoiler to suggest he's still alive. I haven’t seen the preview for the next yet, but 99% sure someone as important as Sam doesn’t die without us knowing it. The 1% was the semi-shocking moment when Jon passed a struggling and surrounded Sam on his way chasing the NK. I remember thinking “whoa! The stakes are so high that Jon passed by his best friend to do what’s more important for all.” He saw him and didn’t stop to help.
Seeing the entire Dothraki horde overrun in just minutes was pretty sobering.
Yeah probably next two weeks will be body disposal and sanitation at Winterfell, then on to King's Landing for the final episode.
Yeah, I even mixed up which dragon was jumped by the wights. Oh well, just goes to show how uninvolved I was, near the end of it. About 45 minutes in, I was just wondering who lived and who died, and started fast forwarding through all the "ominous" shots. Making everything really dark saves on the budget.
How? That doesn't make any sense. Granted, we're talking about wizards and dragons here, so how much "sense" is there ... but, still, how does she take the body and become someone entirely not like her? It must be magic, no? In the show, don't they only show "masks"?
We had two weeks of "dread and foreboding" ... the opening part was just "seriously? get on with it!" And, then, when they retreated back to the wall ... with all those people, they couldn't bother to man every nook and cranny? If so, that would have been an easy "poke, poke, poke" with dragonglass until the undead were all re-deadified, unless the walls collapsed under the weight of the undead climbing up them. Instead, they left huge holes, leaving the few defenders to man multiple nooks/crannies, so they were obviously going to be overwhelmed. Shoddy writing right there.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
Interesting theory. If you saw/read it somewhere, I’ll take that as a good explanation for the mentality causing his fumble on the goal line of a late playoff game on the road to world (sort of) domination. The 3-eyed raven was just too great a prize and would have done great things for his power.
Even still, poor playcalling not securing the area and playing the team game solo v Jon, Theon, Arya and anyone else who could have defeated his eternal purpose with a lucky strike or shot. Could have played smarter and still have taken Bran.
But it's hardly the first clash with the dead. There was Hardhome before this. I just don't see what the alternative was. A series of minor skirmishes? Retreating to some other location? How would a second battle be plausible once this one was lost. It would have been more absurd for this to have been some series of battles, since every person who dies on the good side becomes part of the NK's army. So it had to end in one fight, or else the NK wins and it's over.
I know the good character deaths stand out more, but it was Ned and then Robb/Catelyn. Other than those (the last of which was way back in season 3), has there really been this unending string of good main characters dying? Meanwhile, Joffrey, the high sparrow, Ramsey, Frey, Dany's brother, etc form a much longer list of main bad characters who meet their end.
Only if the NK shoots first...
I was thinking exactly the same. When they have very little army left and she's being told the people of King's Landing will stand up against her and she has dragons....if they won't bend the knee, burn them all.
Even the writers of the show didn't think it was a spoiler since they put it in the previews... It's not like they give away cliffhangers in the previews.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Seriously. The least Melisandre could have done was cast a spell and help clean the mess before taking off. I guess the dragons are pretty capable as well. Wheel them outside the winterfell walls.
Then Everybody stand back!! Drogon, take loop around torch/sweep when ready. And watch out for the heart trees.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Ratings for ‘The Long Night’ hit 17.8mm viewers, a new record. The old record was the S8 premiere at 17.4mm viewers. Of course this doesn’t count worldwide numbers which are close to 40mm (not counting bootleg viewings).
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Robert, Oberon martell, rickon, several nights watch guys especially in the books, Ygritte (important and even if a necessary death, deserves a mention because @Midnighter has a major thing for her), drogo, [Jon, Hound, Catlyn and Jorah (although none actually died)], all those torched in King’s Landing wildfires and there were some good ones-who didn’t love that tyrell girl?!?
Edit: Dundarion was a big deal in the books, as was the red priest who kept saving him. Hodor. There were a lot of good folks getting killed.
Do these ratings take into account watch parties? Seems like a show like this is significantly more likely to have tons of large groups watching at one place.
Totally agree. Also factor in that once the Dead begin to attack they do so at frantic speed with no regard for harm or fear to themselves. Being that the Dead move so quickly towards their target, it would really make retreating not a possibility. As you are retreating backwards, it's not like the Dead will stop and regroup and want to camp for the night themselves. The only reason they slowed down Sunday night was the fire moat. And you can not go around digging fire moats behind yourself as you are retreating.
Small "technicality" from watching it again last night. I'm sorry but these small obvious things bug me...
...So towards the very end, Danny falls off her dragon, she falls to the ground, and she is rescued by Jorah Mormont. More and more dead begin to surround Danny and Jorah Mormont. He is getting stabbed about 50 times so it's just a matter of time before he is done. .... But they are doing this right in front of the still burning fire moat.... Knowing that a) fire can not hurt Danny and b) the Dead will not go into fire.... wouldn't it have made logical sense for Mormont to tell Danny to go stand in the fire over at the moat so the Dead can not get her?
...So towards the very end, Danny falls off her dragon, she falls to the ground, and she is rescued by Jorah Mormont. More and more dead begin to surround Danny and Jorah Mormont. He is getting stabbed about 50 times so it's just a matter of time before he is done. .... But they are doing this right in front of the still burning fire moat.... Knowing that a) fire can not hurt Danny and b) the Dead will not go into fire.... wouldn't it have made logical sense for Mormont to tell Danny to go stand in the fire over at the moat so the Dead can not get her?
They'd get to her the same way they got past the moat. Keeping running into the fire until it was smothered enough to get to her.
I hear you, but I saw some decent theories that would've upped the ante/stakes a bit more. One where the NK and Viserion actually attack and destroy Kings Landing while the wights are attacking Winterfell. One where the NK wins at Winterfell but many of the main characters are able to escape (via the secret passages in the crypt) and perhaps head to join up with Yara. One where the secret to killing the NK is actually destroying the weirwood tree upon which he was created, but that would also end up killing Jon/Beric/Three Eyed Raven (since their lives are also tied into the tree/old gods).
My bigger issue, though, is really not with the amount of episodes it took to resolve the issue but with the lack of complexity and shallowness of the storyline in the end. They took 8 seasons investing into the battle against the NK and the dead and it seemed like it deserved some more explanation and meaning beyond just a black and white battle of good guys versus evil zombies. They showed the circular symbol so many times and there's no meaning/reason behind it beyond the NK's calling card? The NK's main goal is to destroy the Three Eyed Raven, but no real explanation on how the Three Eyed Raven came to be in the first place and the backstory/connection with the NK to give that interaction some more meaning/substance? And the reason for the NK to kill the Three Eyed Raven is to destroy man's history/memory - but aren't there still books and historians (like Sam) that can serve that end? And, from reading the books and seeing Martin's adeptness at creating complex and meaningful characters and plot lines, I'd be surprised if the books end up being as cut and dry and neatly resolved as the show.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
She was a sitting duck in either spot, wasn’t likely to leave Jorah (would have detracted from the heroism) and probably didn’t have time to think about it, run, etc.
Lots of good folks, but minor characters. Lots of minor characters also died in the Battle for Winterfell, but everyone is treating it as disappointing because more main characters didn't die. My point being that the show doesn't kill off the good main characters quite as often as folks suggest.
The show could easily have gone another two seasons and fleshed those issues out more. I agree the past two seasons seemed a bit rushed to resolve everything, but they are what, 9 years into making this show? If you don't wrap it up soon, some actors may start refusing to return, some will die, etc. So they faced needs to resolve it that Martin doesn't have to deal with in writing.
As to alternative situations, the NK attacking Kings Landing wouldn't make sense if his main goal is killing the Three Eyed Raven in order to erase memory of the world. He's not employing tactics for world domination, he's trying to get to and kill the Three Eyed Raven first. As to many main characters escaping and joining up with Yara....ok, so the full Dothraki army, Unsullied, wildlings, armies of the north etc all couldn't stop the dead, AND they're now part of that army of the dead, but whatever army Yara is gathering would turn around and defeat the dead plus the Dothraki, unsullied, etc? It would be absurd.
I do like your idea of destroying the tree to destroy him, but sacrificing Jon/Beric/Bran. Would also liked for them to know it and willingly do so. Kind of like how I liked an idea where Bran has Arya kill him so that she can wear his face and kill the NK. I'm not saying it was perfect, but I was fine with how it went.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Right - this isn't a battle of strategic war planners that is going to have a series of attack/retreat type efforts. The Night King is all about overwhelming force and that is that. Doesn't matter what Jon and the others plan - they basically have to fend off a seemingly non-stop assault from an opponent that doesn't tire or get scared. That said, the plan worked - get the NK to come to Bran and then deal with him then (I don't think anyone counted on Arya being the one to finish him off; seemed like watching Bran was one of the reasons Jon didn't seem to be doing much of anything else save the occasional fire run at the wights). It did seem like the NK could sort of telepathically manipulate the wights when he wanted (making them lay down on the fire-moat to create a bridge) but that also appeared to require more attention that he wanted to give. Ultimately I thought the episode was a massive success and I thought for sure we wouldn't see that battle until the end of the series. Making Cersei and KL the 'endgame' so to speak was a huge curve ball, but one that allows us to get back to the root storyline and what GoT does best - character interaction/development.
But to the Wights is she such a main target that they would do this? Or would they simply by-pass her to move onto Winterfell?? I got impression that the Wights built the "body bridge" on the silent order of the NK because the ultimate goal was to take down Winterfell. The NK was not around to order them to go into a fire to get Danny. Eventually, they would have gotten her. Eventually ALL living would have been dead. So eventually they would have gotten her. But the idea of going over and standing in the fire... something you know deters Wights... simply was a time saving move.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
At risk of sounding snarky, there’s nothing in the show that approaches anywhere near the complexity of stories and perspectives in the books. They’ve always been galaxies apart, necessarily so. Having read them all and waited impatiently for years since, I’m impressed with what they’ve done on screen, FWIW.
Wrong. He was actually stabbing wights with dragon glass and they show sam again after the NK dies. In fact they go through and show everyone you just have to be paying attention
You're right of course. It's just that to me, Joffrey's and Ramsey's deaths weren't that satisfying. Didn't really get to see Ramsey suffer and didn't really know who poisoned Joffrey. The High Sparrow's death was disappointing because it cost so dearly;
To me the most satisfying deaths of bad characters at the hands of a good character were all thanks to Arya, with Littlefinger's death being the best.
She did pick up a sword and fight back though, which was awesome.
The wights were absolutely ordered into the moat fire by the Night King(he did a little hand motion), so you're most likely correct. The wights probably would've surrounded her just outside of the moat waiting. Although, they were smart enough to realize the ice had frozen in Beyond the Wall after the Hound threw the rock and it didn't break the ice, so maybe they learned from the "body bridge" too.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Dany and Drogo had some quality kills across the sea. Golden crown for Vicerus and several of danys kills by fire.You're right of course. It's just that to me, Joffrey's and Ramsey's deaths weren't that satisfying. Didn't really get to see Ramsey suffer and didn't really know who poisoned Joffrey. The High Sparrow's death was disappointing because it cost so dearly;
To me the most satisfying deaths of bad characters at the hands of a good character were all thanks to Arya, with Littlefinger's death being the best.
Impressive with the sword, right? Like seemingly better than the Dothraki, unsullied, etc.
Dany. Went. Off.
Yes. Definitely from the crypts and not from outside. Also after watching again yesterday it appeared to me that only the night king and the white walkers shattered. Looked like the wights all simply just dropped and even the dragon just dropped I cant recall but I think the same thing happened when they went north to bring one back. I think the wights dropped to a pile of bones.
No they showed him again after stabbing and he was crying and that was last time they showed him before nk died. Go back and watch again. I dvrd it and went back and watched last ten min.
At this point i have moved on. Just don’t like people watching scenes from next episode and saying stuff about it. Serves little purpose.
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I agree and in a prior post pointed out all that I thought was right with the episode, and I think they do a phenomenal job with the show at large. And I fully understand the limitations that the show writers have to deal with versus Martin.
With that said, I think the show actually did a pretty good job of handling the complexities in the first few seasons when they were tracking the books. Once they no longer had source material to work with, I feel those complexities have been marginalized to various degrees -- the most blatant example being with the NK story line. It's a minor critique for a show that I think is otherwise hugely enjoyable and well written.
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