PSU - Rutgers Dual Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
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Eh. I'm not sure I'd go so far as embracing these stereotypes. PA is loaded with Italian Americans, myself included, who in no way found anything that Rutgers did on Sunday to be remotely acceptable or representative of Italian Roots. I think a more reasonable comparison would be to say that each team reflects the leadership style and influence of their coaches. Cael is understated and 100% class. After Sunday I'm not sure what Goodale is, because IMO he was behind the tactics that multiple wrestlers employed in an attempt to bully their far superior opponents.
Ultimately it is up to the referee to control the match and put an end to the excessive slaps to the face and clubbing the back of the head on the tie-ups. He didn't. In Zain's match, after penalizing DeLuca 2 points, DeLuca immediately takes a big swipe at Zain's head, nothing done, should have disqualified him at that point.
Sorry if I offended you--I'm not trying to say one is better than the other--I'm just speaking in general terms. I love the regionalism of our country, and like to dissect what makes certain things tick. We're losing a lot of it over time, but there are still mores that persist. I'm certainly not saying all Italians are Rutgers fans, much less punks like Deluca and Lewis.
It's not so much who your ancestors are, as what sort of beliefs, attitudes, and traditions your parents/grandparents instilled in you. New Jersey is a big, and sorta diverse state. But there is a dominant culture, I'd say, even now. And the worst parts of that dominant culture seemed to be on display yesterday.
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To answer Chickenman from a page back. The visible pop I would explain one of two ways. If a the tibial motion is rotatory and the meniscus tears, the femur falls into the defect as the meniscus displaces and the pop is that the bones get closer together. This would likely mean a large peripheral tear that could require a repair with a 3-6 month recovery. A small peripheral tear would have a much smaller recovery time if it only required some trimming.
The second possibility, after watching a few more times, is the the motion of the tibia was posterior (toward the back), which would likely mean a PCL tear. This would likely require reconstruction in an athlete of this age. The question would be whether he could wrestle out the season and then do it or do it now depending on functional capacity of the knee and pain levels, similar to what Lee did for the end of his high school schedule.
The second possibility, after watching a few more times, is the the motion of the tibia was posterior (toward the back), which would likely mean a PCL tear. This would likely require reconstruction in an athlete of this age. The question would be whether he could wrestle out the season and then do it or do it now depending on functional capacity of the knee and pain levels, similar to what Lee did for the end of his high school schedule.
JMO but I think the worst part of their coach was what was on display yesterday. Ultimately he sets the tone for how the team will wrestle. If it were just one guy being overly aggressive with the head slaps and questionable holds you could make the argument that it was an individual problem. This activity permeated the entire dual. It continued onto Twitter with more boorish behavior. Goodale is scum in my book until proven otherwise.
I actually stopped watching the dual mid-way into 165. Just couldn't enjoy it. So I can't talk about the conduct of the bottom half of their lineup. And I totally agree that responsibility for this behavior stops with the head of the program. My point (to labor it a bit perhaps), is that Cael is a great fit for PSU, and Goodale is probably at least a marginally representative one for RU.
After seeing the twitter posts of the RU coach and wrestlers it's apparent their behavior was/is coached. Question does RU have to be on the schedule? They should feel grateful to get a match against a team of this caliber but it's obvious they don't. Why would Cael put his wrestlers on the mat against bush league thugs? The Twitter post from Bo really sinks in just how nasty it was yesterday Which of course he's correct that's not what wrestling is about.
Thank you. Much appreciated. I have 3 knee ops - nothing too major, so have a more than layman’s interest in (and knowledge of) the knee joint. Nice to get some additional color.
The coach sets the tone for how his athletes behave and play. It is up to the referee to control the game/match. No doubt Goodale needs to clean up his approach, however, the ref yesterday should have put a stop to the non-sense and did not.
We saw yesterday the effect the home crowd has on officiating, they are hesitant to punish the home team. Happens in every sport.
true
lets say it starts with the coach (bigger issue with him) and ends with the ref...
Only on BTN as far as I know. Think Borroughs vs. Dake last year during trials, minus the part where Borroughs actually wrestled.
Just watch an episode of The Three Stooges and you'll get the gist. Non stop face slaps and eye pokes.
Think Slapshot minus the parts where they actually played hockey.
I thought the Rutgers kid at 157 gave Nolf's ankle a twist thereby stressing the knee, kind of like twisting one end of a piece of metal held in a vise; that was the immediate cause of the injury...I suppose that could be considered just part of the scramble, which could have/should have been called a stalemate
but, yeah, the mauling at 149 was egregious, which should have raised alarms for subsequent matches
Rutgers is just a shit wrestling team with big pretensions. If I counted correctly, they had 4 takedowns outside of Suriano for the entire match. One of those was by Delvecchio at the very end of the match when Keener tried a desperation move; another was Gravina's very challengeable one (I think he failed to cover the second leg). So they had two legit takedowns in 8+ matches, one against Nolf, who routinely gives up takedowns to less opponents. Bill G. said it was the best they wrestled all year - which is just sad and a real reflection on how bad their team is - 2 legit takedowns in 8+ matches.
This thread has most of the juicy bits. I think you can click through on those embedded tweets without an account if you want to see the replies--but standard warnings about the inanity of social media commenting apply....
Just rewatched Zains match, 22 Clubs to the head. Watched the rewind of the Nolf match and yes Van Brill positively torqued the knee. Gravina headbutted Bo 7 times in the first two perionds. Dirty, I say absolutely, however, the official let it get out of control.
Watched your match w/OSU and saw exactly what you post, exactly. Wondered why the ref allowed that to continue so long and also how there were not injuries. What happened to Nolf appeared to be an accident but if the ref was in control of an obviously emotional match, on one side anyway, he observed from previous matches the extreme effort extended and dangerous holds should have been halted quickly, as in any match.
I'm also worried about the PCL for the reasons you mentioned. A PCL injury most often occurs when a force is applied to the anterior aspect of the proximal tibia when the knee is flexed. Hyperextension and rotational or varus/valgus stress mechanisms also may be responsible for PCL tears. The most common way a PCL tear occurs outside of sports is in a car accident when your knee/shin hits the dashboard.
Here, Nolf's knee was flexed, force was being applied to the tibia via the hold on the ankle, and Nolf was forcing his femur forward over the flexed tibia. There was also rotational force being applied via the knee being crossed in front of Nolf's body and the opposing forces of Nolf trying to get up and his opponent holding the shin/ankle against himself.
Another concerning aspect for a PCL injury is that when Nolf is pulling back after the stoppage, it looks like his lower leg is sagging back compared to his femur, which would mean the PCL has torn, allowing the lower leg to move backwards. It also looked like a posterior drawer sign test was being performed by the trainer/doc (bend the knee, push back on the shin and see if there is laxity.. as opposed to the anterior drawer sign for an ACL where they bend the knee and pull forward on the shin to see if there is laxity in that direction).
Finally, there was a post on twitter last night from some woman named Lu Ann Dalessio (https://twitter.com/LuAnnDalessio) saying that Nolf possibly tore his PCL and has a doctor's appointment at 8am this morning. She has since deleted the tweet
However, if you look at her profile, her last tweet was in 3/2017 and also about Nolf. She follows 5 accounts, 4 of those are B1Gwrestling, Flowrestling, Penn State Wrestling, and Samantha Nolf. I did some googling for a Lu Ann Dalessio and a woman by that name works on the Indiana County Municipal Services Authority.. a half hour drive from Nolf's hometown of Yatesboro. (https://www.prwa.com/people/icmsaluann)
Here is a screen grab of the tweet preview from a text message i sent last night when the tweet was still up.
If it's a PCL, theres no way he's wrestling this year, IMO.
If you guys really want to know the answer, everyone needs to start tweeting at @ProFootballDoc with links to the video (you can use this Christian Pyles tweet for a link to the video) It would also be helpful to send videos of the trainer examining Nolf and Nolf trying to walk. We already have the opinion of a Duke Professor/Orthopedic Surgeon in Dr. Selene Parekh, but he only saw the initial video that CP tweeted, and not the exam, etc. One other thing that points to the patella is that you can see the trainer feeling the right patella and comparing it to the left when he examines Nolf. However, I'm worried that if it is the patella, its a torn patellar tendon, not a dislocated patella. In my opinion you can pretty clearly see the trainer say to Cael 2x "it's torn" after Nolf stands up. In addition, it looks like Cody says "it's torn" when Nolf is still on the ground being examined.
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Many thanks to Mike Steppe and others who have provided some professional input for this discussion.
Regarding Nolf injury - leave the heavier of Cassar and Rasheed at 197 - lighter guy drops and all others in the lineup down to 157 drop one weight ..........jk
Have you ever met Mark Hall? He is smaller than plenty of guys at 157.
think this is how you'll see our guys wrestled(minus the thuggery) from here on out. guys simply will not engage. lots of back peddling, circling, but not shooting. waiting for our guys, who are aggressive, to make a mistake. very hard to bonus when officials will not make the opponents wrestle.
The goal is to peak in March, not in a dual against Rutgers. The boys looked a bit tired but have likely been working hard all week so that's expected. Plus defending against a go ahead TD in the last 30 seconds isn't a bad skills to work on during the season!
I don't know. It seems that the goal was to beat Rutgers. Now are season is complete because moral victories are all the really matter.
I haven’t watched the dual yet. Did the TV announcers have any harsh comments on the Rutgers wrestlers/coach regarding their poor sportsmanship?
They had comments, but I would characterize them as "mild comments"
And, just my opinion, but Shane Sparks, the primary announcer, is almost unlistenable.
A virtual Dick Vitale, will not shut up. I'd say he should switch to de-caf, but too late for that.
Coach talked again at tonight's Radio Show, about the referee's calling the hands to the face (being generous here) more. Even made the comment that some of what he sees is not wrestling. 2nd time he's addressed it.
Is this somthing that can/will be addressed to the conference or NCAAs? I know they can't control an individual wrestler, but the official was out of his league and let things escalate...
Roar, in one of my high school wrestling matches against your alma mater (big dual), the other wrestler and I each exchanged one nice Rutgers type hand to the face. When I did mine, it was retaliatory, the ref immediately stopped the match, and made it quite clear the next one of us to do it again would not be wrestling the rest of the night. No problems the rest of the night.
That is how you handle it. When DeLuca was penalized for the two points, and then immediately took the big swipe at Zain again, the ref should have immediately DQ him. That would have put a stop to it.
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