They have a number of decently rated schools. I have no idea what kids may aspire to these days.
Aspirations in New York State change dramatically the further one gets from Manhattan.
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They have a number of decently rated schools. I have no idea what kids may aspire to these days.
True- much the same as most largely rural statesAspirations in New York State change dramatically the further one gets from Manhattan.
If I had it to do all over again - I went to F&M for academics - I would have gone to Miami to sow my wild oats with the coed population. I wouldn't have studied nearly as much, but the smile on my face would have been ear to ear.
Wait i thought the general consensus of the BoT was this was a football failing and had nothing to do with the University at large. they told us applications were up, donations were great, and the way handled the crisis wasn't hurting our reputation at all. ooops! As a person who has lived out of state since 1984 that was obviously poppycock at least of Pa.Totally: an internationally publicized pedophilia scandal that dominated news for months couldn’t hurt image or recruiting or reputation at all. Definitely Barron’s fault!
I thought the BOT says year after year that fund raising is actually UP, not down....So you think it’s all behind us now? That lost fundraising and any hits to recruiting have no lasting affect? That all of our competitors were sitting still?
Then you are right!!!
I recall hitting Duvall Street in Key West on spring break in the late 90s. I was blown away by all the Miami girls. Kids today are better traveled and "wiser" to the world than I was at that age. I think they've seen more and consider more in choosing a college.If I had it to do all over again - I went to F&M for academics - I would have gone to Miami to sow my wild oats with the coed population. I wouldn't have studied nearly as much, but the smile on my face would have been ear to ear.
My point is that the "scandal", as it relates to PSU, was created and nurtured by Old Main. It never had to be that way.Could you please define “irony?” I don’t think I’v ever seen that word properly used (on this board)
Explains the similar drops by Michigan and Ohio State. Oh wait ...So you think it’s all behind us now? That lost fundraising and any hits to recruiting have no lasting affect? That all of our competitors were sitting still?
Then you are right!!!
It rivals the UC system. It is a very good system.Is it? I can’t think of anyone I know who grew up in NY State who aspired to attend a SUNY school. Maybe some things have changed in the past couple of decades.
It rivals the UC system. It is a very good system.
Which SUNY school is UCLA? Which is Berkeley?It rivals the UC system. It is a very good system.
I concur. When I went to PSU as an out of state student the difference between in state and out of state was only $5k, now it is about double. I would not send either one of my kids to PSU unless they were able to get significant scholarship assistance.
Back in 2013 Penn State was ranked 37 in the US News and World Report rankings. Now they are 62 and behind Pitt and Ohio State. I realize this is just one ranking, but it is also the most widely accepted ranking. PSU admins need to focus on stopping this free fall.
So why has our rating declined so much? I’d be shocked to hear that it’s due to a decrease in spendingUS News rankings are totally worthless, just ignore it. Everybody in higher ed knows they're worthless.
If Penn State wants to increase their US news rankings, ironically, the best way to do that is to raise tuition and give big raises to their administrators. That raises the per-student spending which raises the US news score.
If you have to believe in rankings, look up ARWU -- Academic Rankings of World reseach Universities. It is based on journal citations -- whose professors get cited the most by other researchers around the world.
It's also an imperfect measure -- just because your faculty publishes a lot of papers doesn't mean they even bother teaching undergrads.
But as a rough measure of the horsepower of a research university and how influential its faculty is, ARWU is pretty good.
US News is a mishmash of a bunch of statistics but it basically boils down to how much money they spend. The more you spend, the higher your ranking. So US News has very much aggravated the problem of skyrocketing college tuition. If you google it you can probably find Malcolm Gladwell's takedown of the whole US News ranking racket. It's a savage article and spot on.
My reaction too. I don’t see a Berkeley or Santa Barbara in the SUNY system. Santa Cruz or Davis, maybe.Rivals the UC system? Uh, no.
Saved me the post.. thanx. I'd wager there's more going on than the scandal of '11.Sure. No question. But wouldn't that be a delayed reaction? The scandal hit in 2011/12. PSU was 27th in 2013. Now we are 62nd. So from 2013-20 which is 2-8 years post-scandal, and it's the scandal.
The fact that Spanier was on One Term Tommy's enemies list is enough to make me a fan.Spanier knew how to keep us steady or moving up in these rankings. I hate to admit it but Erickson did too, I think we reached our high point of #37 under Erickson right in the middle of all the negativity.
The moment they tried to replace Erickson with the crook from SUNY, and then couldn't find anyone other than Barron, the freefall started. I doubt this is as far as it will drop unless the board figures out that we need to have a very good president. The credentials have to be outstanding and they have to understand how a big state school works. Barron understands the second part but he is the B-team.
PSU offers very little in the way of merit based scholarships.I would not send either one of my kids to PSU unless they were able to get significant scholarship assistance.
Aspiration: The beads of perspiration that run down your back and into your crack.Aspirations in New York State change dramatically the further one gets from Manhattan.
My reaction too. I don’t see a Berkeley or Santa Barbara in the SUNY system. Santa Cruz or Davis, maybe.
Yep. Many kids overlook SUNY but it is one of the best values out there. I know in my kids classes their friends shirked SUNY schools only to come back to places like UB, Binghamton, Geneseo, New Paltz. They realized a) tuition was affordable and b) you get a pretty good education. Buffalo and Binghamton have very good engineering programs and New Paltz is coming up with their new eng. curriculum with lot of money being pumped in.They have a number of decently rated schools. I have no idea what kids may aspire to these days.
Sort of an overrated campus imo (and a bitch to get to or from), Gainesville or Tally would have been better.If I had it to do all over again - I went to F&M for academics - I would have gone to Miami to sow my wild oats with the coed population. I wouldn't have studied nearly as much, but the smile on my face would have been ear to ear.
And Stony Brook has very good health programs and medical school.Yep. Many kids overlook SUNY but it is one of the best values out there. I know in my kids classes their friends shirked SUNY schools only to come back to places like UB, Binghamton, Geneseo, New Paltz. They realized a) tuition was affordable and b) you get a pretty good education. Buffalo and Binghamton have very good engineering programs and New Paltz is coming up with their new eng. curriculum with lot of money being pumped in.
Because, since 2013, the rankings have started to put more and more weight on factors related to cost of attendance and financial aid. Penn State has very high tuition compared to public schools, and very low financial aid awards compared to private schools. Cost of attendance and financial aid both hurts Penn State in the rankings formula, and makes Penn State less competitive in attracting high school applicants with high GPAs and SAT scores.So why has our rating declined so much? I’d be shocked to hear that it’s due to a decrease in spending
Similar situation hold true for SUNY ESF (env. science and forestry) at SU and some of land-grant majors at Cornell. Students in those programs are taking courses along side other Cornell and SU students and are paying a fifth of the tuition.Comment on the crazy New York state university system. Long ago, (1966) I applied to Alfred University. I was interested in Ceramic Engineering. Alfred's school of engineering was a state school, the rest of the university was private. There was a two tution system in place with the Engineering School having a lower tuition. The school of engineering offered Ceramic Engineering and a few other majors, but not Metallurgy. Metallurgy was my main interest. My concern with Alfred was if I transferred out of Engineering I would be facing a tuition hike. Anyway I went to PSU.
I think you’re forgetting about many of the good Pa schools who do get recognition. The average Californian may not know about Drexel, Swarthmore, or even Temple more recently but don’t excuse their ignorance. Lafayette, F & M, Dickinson, Muhlenberg, Villanova, Gettysburg, Etc. are very well known and respected by the people who matter. People in the West don’t have the luxury of attending great small liberal arts colleges. They are stuck in big diploma mills like ASU or UC Santa Barbara and are increasingly dominated by Asian and Hispanic students representative of the demographics in those states. They have no tradition of small high quality colleges which in many cases were founded before they became States.I don't care what the rankings say, if you live in PA and want to go to college in PA, there are really 4 choices: Penn, Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Penn St. Those schools have national and international recognition and your degree will always have value and good perception. There may be exceptions for schools like Lehigh and Bucknell if you really want a specific major and plan to stay in that field forever. But try looking for a job in Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Denver, Chicago, etc with Haverford, Bryn Mawr, etc on your resume. The average person in those cities will have no idea what those schools are and equate them as just some average regional school. And they certainly won't value IUP, Shippensberg, etc.
A large reason students at those schools like Haverford, Bryn Mawr do well in their careers is they come from wealthy, well-connected families to begin with. It's not worth the expense for a lower class, middle class, or even some upper class students attend those schools. In 10, 20, 30, years people will always recognize Penn, PSU, Pitt, CMU.
Unless you kids can get into the Honors College or are black or Hispanics, the odds of scholarship $$$ is pretty much zero.
I looked when my kid wanted to go there about 10 years ago, zippo. He went to in state UCONN instead, I couldn't stomach the $50k/yr total costs for being out of state. He became a RA and between that and what we kicked in he may have had $12k of debt when he graduated.
I know from personal experience that in 1990s, there were a number of partial scholarships available that had nothing to do with Honors program or ethnicity. These are usually specific to certain colleges or majors, and sometime you cannot apply for them until after your freshman year. I ended up with a half tuition scholarship, based on academics only (I'm a white male who didn't have financial need).Unless you kids can get into the Honors College or are black or Hispanics, the odds of scholarship $$$ is pretty much zero.
I looked when my kid wanted to go there about 10 years ago, zippo. He went to in state UCONN instead, I couldn't stomach the $50k/yr total costs for being out of state. He became a RA and between that and what we kicked in he may have had $12k of debt when he graduated.
Based on everything I've seen, your experience in the 90's would be a rarity today. Keep in mind, too, that tuition in 2020 is significantly higher - probably more than double - what it was in the 1990's. Even if the scholarships are endowed, if the endowment disburses $5,000 a year, that money doesn't go nearly as far as it did 25 years ago.I know from personal experience that in 1990s, there were a number of partial scholarships available that had nothing to do with Honors program or ethnicity. These are usually specific to certain colleges or majors, and sometime you cannot apply for them until after your freshman year. I ended up with a half tuition scholarship, based on academics only (I'm a white male who didn't have financial need).
Perhaps someone either recently out of school (or with kids currently in school) can comment on whether this is still the case, but usually these scholarships are endowed so I'd be surprised if they have gone away.
This is not to say that PSU is affordable for out of state students (it isn't) but I wanted to refute the idea that there is no scholarship $$ available.
Appreciated, but I was refuting the statement that there are no academic scholarships available outside of the Honors Program. Perhaps you could say there are no *full* academic scholarships available, but even Honors scholarships are only $5K per year, no?Based on everything I've seen, your experience in the 90's would be a rarity today. Keep in mind, too, that tuition in 2020 is significantly higher - probably more than double - what it was in the 1990's. Even if the scholarships are endowed, if the endowment disburses $5,000 a year, that money doesn't go nearly as far as it did 25 years ago.
Similar situation hold true for SUNY ESF (env. science and forestry) at SU and some of land-grant majors at Cornell. Students in those programs are taking courses along side other Cornell and SU students and are paying a fifth of the tuition.
I worked at SU (in a department closely aligned with ESF) for awhile so I know a bit about this. Cornell is a little different because those students are actually Cornell students (they just pay less) meaning their diploma says "Cornell". While ESF is actually very good, it does not have the name recognition (nationally at least) of Syracuse or Cornell.Similar situation hold true for SUNY ESF (env. science and forestry) at SU and some of land-grant majors at Cornell. Students in those programs are taking courses along side other Cornell and SU students and are paying a fifth of the tuition.