OT: York golf club owner calls cops on black female members for playing too slow

[AWS1022]

Whatever you do don't call a woman ma'am.

How about toots?

 

[TenerHallTerror]

But you wouldn’t read it because you’re mind is made up and you don’t want to be bothered with alternate opinions or reason of any sort.

LOGIC FAIL: you presume your opinions contain reason

 

[LionDeNittany]

Whatever you do don't call a woman ma'am.

I mean I wouldn't even call the person a woman. Could be a female born male. Think of the aggression that person could cast.

According to GreggK it would then be OK for that person to blow up, or blow things up. Not very clear.

LdN

 

[GreggK]

I mean I wouldn't even call the person a woman. Could be a female born male. Think of the aggression that person could cast.
According to GreggK it would then be OK for that person to blow up, or blow things up. Not very clear.
LdN

It was quite clear, my sweet little tender bum.

 

[Obliviax]

I have too. I have been called many terrible things. I have had a gun pulled on me twice for being white. Once in Asbury Park in the 90s and another in midtown at 3am.
I live in a building that was once mainly middle class black and is slowly becoming upper class white. There is a woman on the first floor who won't even acknowledge me when I say hi. I go out of my way to say hi every time I see her, mainly to annoy her (I like to do that as you know) (also, 99% of the people in the building couldn't be nicer)

But my experiences are nothing compared to many Black Americans day to day. I can count on two hands the times I have been discriminated against.
The same goes for most white people in this country, if not less depending on where you live.

well, you can't fight racism with more racism. You just make it worse. Take starbucks, one of the most progressive companies on the planet, is simply going to end up having a policy that you cannot stay in the store unless you buy something.

 

[AWS1022]

LOGIC FAIL: you presume your opinions contain reason

And you presume your opinion is always right. It’s hard to judge if someone’s opinion has reason if you don’t listen to it.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

And you presume your opinion is always right. It’s hard to judge if someone’s opinion has reason if you don’t listen to it.

 

[AWS1022]

Wow, brilliant come back.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Wow, brilliant come back.

THANKS, RACIST!

 

[bdgan]

I think the term man-splaining is stupid. I think terms like that and white privilege are based in the assumption that all white people are racists and all males are sexist.

I think the white privilege thing drives a huge wedge between the races. How do you think a person is going to react if they grew up with nothing and worked their arse off to make something of themselves is going to react if you tell them their success is due to white privilege?

 

[GreggK]

well, you can't fight racism with more racism. You just make it worse. Take starbucks, one of the most progressive companies on the planet, is simply going to end up having a policy that you cannot stay in the store unless you buy something.

I agree, and you also can't pretend it doesn't exist. I am not saying you are doing that, but lots of people in this country seem to think it doesn't exist.
I am guilty as everyone else for having certain biases, I think living where I do now really helped me see things differently.

There was a time, when I would cross the street if I saw a big group of black teens approaching.
I don't do that now, and when we cross paths I almost always say "hi" and always get a hi back.
This is when I was in my early 20s and NYC was a much different place, but it was also a form of bias on my part.

People also have to start being such wusses and speak to people if they have a problem. There is absolutely no need to call the police for every single thing.
Just speaking to someone as a human being always is the better course of action.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

I think the white privilege thing drives a huge wedge between the races. How do you think a person is going to react if they grew up with nothing and worked their arse off to make something of themselves is going to react if you tell them their success is due to white privilege?

FREE MEEK MILL

 

[Obliviax]

I agree, and you also can't pretend it doesn't exist. I am not saying you are doing that, but lots of people in this country seem to think it doesn't exist.
I am guilty as everyone else for having certain biases, I think living where I do now really helped me see things differently.

There was a time, when I would cross the street if I saw a big group of black teens approaching.
I don't do that now, and when we cross paths I almost always say "hi" and always get a hi back.
This is when I was in my early 20s and NYC was a much different place, but it was also a form of bias on my part.

People also have to start being such wusses and speak to people if they have a problem. There is absolutely no need to call the police for every single thing.
Just speaking to someone as a human being always is the better course of action.

i think there are few people that feel racism doesn't exist. At the same time, as a nation, we elected a black man as president...twice! And the demographics of how people voted are pretty cool.

let me be clear, the political parties make money flaming racism. It is a huge money maker. The press is only too happy to go along.

We need to be smarter than that, especially at the grass roots level. If you see racism, if you are white or black, you need to point it out. Or, if you see racism wrongfully accused, you need to point it out. It is the only way to come together.

rant over....and done with this thread.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

i think there are few people that feel racism doesn't exist. At the same time, as a nation, we elected a black man as president...twice! And the demographics of how people voted are pretty cool.

let me be clear, the political parties make money flaming racism. It is a huge money maker. The press is only too happy to go along.

We need to be smarter than that, especially at the grass roots level. If you see racism, if you are white or black, you need to point it out. Or, if you see racism wrongfully accused, you need to point it out. It is the only way to come together.

rant over....and done with this thread.

feels like you're playing at too slow a pace. get off the board.

 

[AWS1022]

I think the white privilege thing drives a huge wedge between the races. How do you think a person is going to react if they grew up with nothing and worked their arse off to make something of themselves is going to react if you tell them their success is due to white privilege?

It’s exactly like telling a successful minority they got where they are only because of affirmative action. Saying someone only got where they’re at because of affirmative action is racist. How is telling someone they are successful because of white privilege not racist? I’m proud to say I’m not racist because I dislike everyone equally.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

It’s exactly like telling a successful minority they got where they are only because of affirmative action. Saying someone only got where they’re at because of affirmative action is racist. How is telling someone they are successful because of white privilege not racist? I’m proud to say I’m not racist because I dislike everyone equally.

I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Thanks for white-splaining the world

 

[AWS1022]

I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Thanks for white-splaining the world

Ok, I get it now...logical explanation= white splaining...now things make sense.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Ok, I get it now...logical explanation= white splaining...now things make sense.

again, you falsely presume your post was logical. which is the cornerstone of white-splaining

 

[GTACSA]

I think it was interesting that Sandra Thompson's response to being told on the second hole that they were playing too slow was "Do you realize we’re the only black women on this course, and you’re only coming up to us? We paid, we want to play."

She didn't say that they were not playing slow; the first response was to bring race into the situation.

 

[BobPSU92]

PEOPLE. WHO. LOOK. LIKE. YOU.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

I think it was interesting that Sandra Thompson's response to being told on the second hole that they were playing too slow was "Do you realize we’re the only black women on this course, and you’re only coming up to us? We paid, we want to play."

She didn't say that they were not playing slow; the first response was to bring race into the situation.

is that more or less interesting than the dad of the owner misrepresenting himself to berate them, or more or less interesting than the golf pro saying their pace was fine?

you seem focused on the wrong nit to pick

 

[AWS1022]

again, you falsely presume your post was logical. which is the cornerstone of white-splaining

Tell me where it wasn’t logical. I’m just dying to know. You do realize that in this country there are far more poor white people with nothing than poor black people, right? So if white privilege really did exist, there wouldn’t be all those poor white people with nothing because they are privileged.

 

[GTACSA]

I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Thanks for white-splaining the world

You and "white racists" seem to be the same peas in a pod. Y'all have chips on your shoulders against certain people because of the color of their skin.

Life's too short for that kind of negative vibe.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

You and "white racists" seem to be the same peas in a pod. Y'all have chips on your shoulders against certain people because of the color of their skin.

Life's too short for that kind of negative vibe.

go write another crappy book, bro

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Tell me where it wasn’t logical. I’m just dying to know. You do realize that in this country there are far more poor white people with nothing than poor black people, right? So if white privilege really did exist, there wouldn’t be all those poor white people with nothing because they are privileged.

 

[MtNittany]

I think it was interesting that Sandra Thompson's response to being told on the second hole that they were playing too slow was "Do you realize we’re the only black women on this course, and you’re only coming up to us? We paid, we want to play."

She didn't say that they were not playing slow; the first response was to bring race into the situation.

Goes back to the entire media (and the OP of course) probably getting this all wrong. They aren't members - there are no members. It's not a golf club, it's a golf course - according to their own website. On their website it mentions that Fred Waring used to one of the owners and it appears his sister ran it for years. Nowhere does it mention selling even partial memberships. Looks like daily fee all the way.

 

[AWS1022]

View embedded media

You really don’t have any good answers on your own, do you? Just keep posting shit off the internet and avoiding having any type of an original thought. Of course, when you’re trying to defend an indefensible position, I can understand why you avoid any type of discussion.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I get your point Obli, but the flip side is that pretty much every black person I know has been at one point or another been discriminated against many times.
One of my best friends is a black man, who when we go out, regularly gets treated differently than me. He always just throws up his hands when my drink comes and they seem to forget his. It happens ALL the time. (he is also a very conservative doctor, you would like him haha)

Point is, he is gets pretty pissed when this happens, he never makes a big deal, but I can see it bothers him.

So imagine after this crap happening again and again, you eventually hit a wall and blow up.

This is most definitely not the first time this has happened to these 5 women. When the other 3 left, the left because they were fed up that it happened one more time.
The other two stayed to make a point and STILL had the cops called on them.

Yeah sure, you were once asked to leave a Starbucks. Keep on keeping on.

Key and Peele have a skit for everything...

 

[Pardlion]

I agree, and you also can't pretend it doesn't exist. I am not saying you are doing that, but lots of people in this country seem to think it doesn't exist.
I am guilty as everyone else for having certain biases, I think living where I do now really helped me see things differently.

There was a time, when I would cross the street if I saw a big group of black teens approaching.
I don't do that now, and when we cross paths I almost always say "hi" and always get a hi back.
This is when I was in my early 20s and NYC was a much different place, but it was also a form of bias on my part.

People also have to start being such wusses and speak to people if they have a problem. There is absolutely no need to call the police for every single thing.
Just speaking to someone as a human being always is the better course of action.

You sound awesome. Congrats on your awesomeness.

 

[Pardlion]

I think the white privilege thing drives a huge wedge between the races. How do you think a person is going to react if they grew up with nothing and worked their arse off to make something of themselves is going to react if you tell them their success is due to white privilege?

Make the most of what you got. There's no other way. You can decide later if you want to give it away.

 

[bdgan]

How about toots?

Another bad idea.

I think it was interesting that Sandra Thompson's response to being told on the second hole that they were playing too slow was "Do you realize we’re the only black women on this course, and you’re only coming up to us? We paid, we want to play."

She didn't say that they were not playing slow; the first response was to bring race into the situation.

We obviously don't know the whole story. Did the women make a scene when asked to pick up the pace? If not, I can't imagine a reason to call the police. Doesn't sound good for the golf course.

 

[lj4heisman1]

I copied this summary from one of the players' web page. If what she says is true, and on the surface, I see no reason to doubt it, it appears being asked to leave was racist.

"We took a break, they left, and us remaining 2 went to resume play at Hole 10. The group behind us just arrived, so we waved them on to play before us. However, they told us to go, because their group members wanted a beer break. (In the video you can see them later returning with their drinks and food. It is not about them. They lodged no complaints. The guy in hat confirmed we maintained the pace of play even with 5.)

As the 2 of us went to tee off while the other group took their break, Steve Chronister approached us then for the third time, but with 3-4 other men, one of whom was later identified as Jordan Chronister. They now accused us of taking too long of a break and said they wanted us off their premises. As paid members who were not holding up play, we did question why.

They said the police were already called, so we waited.
The police arrived. The Chronisters repeated that they wanted us off their premises and wanted to refund our memberships, including the 3 who left. (The police were respectful, so it is not about the police, if we don't receive charges.)

As we waited and as we spoke to police, no other group approached Hole 10 to tee off, so for about 20-30 minutes there was no one behind the group who were behind us. We waited in the parking lot level, not on the playing grounds."

If it is proven that there was no one close behind them, then they have a very good case. Also, giving credence to their explanation is the fact that they were experienced golfers and knew the rules of golf. Additionally, they said they waived a group through.

Obliviax, you are right that many golf courses don't allow 5-somes. However, my father was a teaching golf pro, and I worked at golf courses for 15 years, beginning at age 8 as a caddy, and a fair number of golf courses do allow 5-somes in selected circumstances. (The course is not busy, the players all have individual carts and play fast et cet.) At this time of year, the course was not busy apparently [no one behind them], and I can easily see a 5-some being permitted. I expect that you play on comparatively nice and expensive public courses, and they are the ones that tend to strictly enforce rules even if the rule doesn't accomplish much on any particular day. I often play a small, not great 9-hole course because at certaIn times , it is close to empty. I have seen 6-somes on this course with all of the people having their own individual golf cart.

Where do you see a racial element here what was racist?

 

[fizzyskittles]

i think there are few people that feel racism doesn't exist. At the same time, as a nation, we elected a black man as president...twice! And the demographics of how people voted are pretty cool.

let me be clear, the political parties make money flaming racism. It is a huge money maker. The press is only too happy to go along.

We need to be smarter than that, especially at the grass roots level. If you see racism, if you are white or black, you need to point it out. Or, if you see racism wrongfully accused, you need to point it out. It is the only way to come together.

rant over....and done with this thread.

My county voted for Obama twice and the flipped to Trump . He won by forty.

We’re obviously racist.

 

[UncleLar]

Goes back to the entire media (and the OP of course) probably getting this all wrong. They aren't members - there are no members. It's not a golf club, it's a golf course - according to their own website. On their website it mentions that Fred Waring used to one of the owners and it appears his sister ran it for years. Nowhere does it mention selling even partial memberships. Looks like daily fee all the way.

Not so fast. The entire narrative seems to be changing. The course owners say that they have 2400 members and they have backtracked from yesterday's story.

Here's their current statement.

"Grandview currently has 2,400 members. In the past players who have not followed the rules, specifically pace of play, have voluntarily left at our request as our scorecard states. In this instance, the members refused to leave so we called police to ensure an amicable result. The members did skip holes and took an extended break after the 9th hole. We spoke with them once about pace of play and then spoke with them a second time. During the second conversation we asked members to leave as per our policy noted on the scorecard, voices escalated, and police were called to ensure an amicable resolution."

Compare that to the female co-owner's statement yesterday

“Yesterday at Grandview Golf Club, several of our members had an experience that does not reflect our organization’s values or our commitment to delivering a welcoming environment for everyone. We are disappointed that this situation occurred and regret that our members were made to feel uncomfortable in any way. We have reached out to the members who shared their concerns to meet in-person, to fully understand what happened so that we can ensure it never happens again. Our team is very sorry for any interaction that may have made any member feel uncomfortable. Please know that we are taking this issue very seriously and expect our own organization to meet the highest standards for service that allows for everyone to feel comfortable and welcome.”

What it reads like to me is that the father of the male owner got pissed at his daughter-in-law's statement and read the riot act to his son. Son then stepped in and issued the new statement.

Story in Golf Digest.

 

[MtNittany]

Not so fast. The entire narrative seems to be changing. The course owners say that they have 2400 members and they have backtracked from yesterday's story.

Here's their current statement.

"Grandview currently has 2,400 members. In the past players who have not followed the rules, specifically pace of play, have voluntarily left at our request as our scorecard states. In this instance, the members refused to leave so we called police to ensure an amicable result. The members did skip holes and took an extended break after the 9th hole. We spoke with them once about pace of play and then spoke with them a second time. During the second conversation we asked members to leave as per our policy noted on the scorecard, voices escalated, and police were called to ensure an amicable resolution."

Compare that to the female co-owner's statement yesterday

“Yesterday at Grandview Golf Club, several of our members had an experience that does not reflect our organization’s values or our commitment to delivering a welcoming environment for everyone. We are disappointed that this situation occurred and regret that our members were made to feel uncomfortable in any way. We have reached out to the members who shared their concerns to meet in-person, to fully understand what happened so that we can ensure it never happens again. Our team is very sorry for any interaction that may have made any member feel uncomfortable. Please know that we are taking this issue very seriously and expect our own organization to meet the highest standards for service that allows for everyone to feel comfortable and welcome.”

What it reads like to me is that the father of the male owner got pissed at his daughter-in-law's statement and read the riot act to his son. Son then stepped in and issued the new statement.

Story in Golf Digest.

Unless you're Pine Valley, if you have 2400 members, you really have none. How were they going to refund their "membership fees" on the spot? Out of the register?

Sounds like this place isn't doing very well.

 

[GTACSA]

Not so fast. The entire narrative seems to be changing. The course owners say that they have 2400 members and they have backtracked from yesterday's story.

Here's their current statement.

"Grandview currently has 2,400 members. In the past players who have not followed the rules, specifically pace of play, have voluntarily left at our request as our scorecard states. In this instance, the members refused to leave so we called police to ensure an amicable result. The members did skip holes and took an extended break after the 9th hole. We spoke with them once about pace of play and then spoke with them a second time. During the second conversation we asked members to leave as per our policy noted on the scorecard, voices escalated, and police were called to ensure an amicable resolution."

Compare that to the female co-owner's statement yesterday

“Yesterday at Grandview Golf Club, several of our members had an experience that does not reflect our organization’s values or our commitment to delivering a welcoming environment for everyone. We are disappointed that this situation occurred and regret that our members were made to feel uncomfortable in any way. We have reached out to the members who shared their concerns to meet in-person, to fully understand what happened so that we can ensure it never happens again. Our team is very sorry for any interaction that may have made any member feel uncomfortable. Please know that we are taking this issue very seriously and expect our own organization to meet the highest standards for service that allows for everyone to feel comfortable and welcome.”

What it reads like to me is that the father of the male owner got pissed at his daughter-in-law's statement and read the riot act to his son. Son then stepped in and issued the new statement.

Story in Golf Digest.

The current statement posted by you is very similar to the club's statement as initially quoted in the article.

 

[pointingdogsrule]

The worst is playing behind slow hackers who actually plumb-bob their putter on the green as if that will help

Hey! I resemble that quote

 

[demlion]

Sounds like this place isn't doing very well.

You've got that right. I think that was clear at least at the moment they called the cops. DIL has the right idea: service. You're selling fun, for f#ck's sake. The cops are good folks and just doing their job, but NOBODY pretends they're FUN. These people are stupid.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

thank God racism and sexism don't exist in this country:

LINK

This raises a few questions for me:
Is it possible that this just is a case of "Buffoonery" and "idiocy" (on both sides) rather than racism/sexism?
Have we become JUST A TAD too quick to pull the racism/sexism/white privilege card out and slam it down on the table?
We certainly know that the original reporting hasn't even come close to portraying the incident accurately. Why are we so quick to jump to race/sex/white privilege conclusions?
We do know that drinking was involved. Doesn't that impair one's judgment, especially in a provocative situation?
Are some groups of people becoming just a tad too provocative when their behavior is called out by people in charge of coffee houses, airlines and golf courses and then using their "group" identity to play the race/sex/white privilege card?
How many times have videos been posted and caused riots when we later learn that the video hasn't told the entire story?
Why do we keep repeating this video over-reaction mistake?
Why is it always the politically correct/afflicted who make this mistake?

These are just some questions, I don't claim to have the answers but I do have one final observation:
The straw man arguments in this thread are precious. My favorite is "how many times are the police called over slow play at a golf course?". That isn't the issue, the issue is how someone reacts when the slow play problem is raised by the management/proprietor of a business? Although the management here seem to be asshats, there appears to be a lot of side issues (including politics) involved. Maybe we would be better off to allow the facts/process to work prior to becoming angry shitheads spouting moronic opinions based on partial information.

 

[demlion]

This raises a few questions for me:
Is it possible that this just is a case of "Buffoonery" and "idiocy" (on both sides) rather than racism/sexism?
Have we become JUST A TAD too quick to pull the racism/sexism/white privilege card out and slam it down on the table?
We certainly know that the original reporting hasn't even come close to portraying the incident accurately. Why are we so quick to jump to race/sex/white privilege conclusions?
We do know that drinking was involved. Doesn't that impair one's judgment, especially in a provocative situation?
Are some groups of people becoming just a tad too provocative when their behavior is called out by people in charge of coffee houses, airlines and golf courses and then using their "group" identity to play the race/sex/white privilege card?
How many times have videos been posted and caused riots when we later learn that the video hasn't told the entire story?
Why do we keep repeating this video over-reaction mistake?
Why is it always the politically correct/afflicted who make this mistake?

These are just some questions, I don't claim to have the answers but I do have one final observation:
The straw man arguments in this thread are precious. My favorite is "how many times are the police called over slow play at a golf course?". That isn't the issue, the issue is how someone reacts when the slow play problem is raised by the management/proprietor of a business? Although the management here seem to be asshats, there appears to be a lot of side issues (including politics) involved. Maybe we would be better off to allow the facts/process to work prior to becoming angry shitheads spouting moronic opinions based on partial information.

Who was drinking? If you give me a list of the white folks who've had the cops called on them at this golf course, perhaps my perspective would change.

I really wish the cops had said, "F You. We have real crimes to work on."