McMurphy Many Inaccuracies -- Where is the police report he accessed before it was sealed

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Maybe to you, but not to me. If OSU keeps Meyer, it is standing up to political correctness. It should not be Meyer's job to second guess the police.

Welcome to our world buck....while I agree with you in principle that Meyer’s job should not include moonlighting as a cop, I think you’ll find that people outside of the 6-1-4 will generally brand Urbs with the scarlet E (for enabler...no pun intended with the color). Nobody cares about PC, unless it suits their argument. Not saying it’s fair, but if it could happen to Joe, nobody’s safe.

 

[dailybuck777]

Not saying it’s fair, but if it could happen to Joe, nobody’s safe.

Fair point and I understand that PSU has a good argument to make that Paterno got railroaded. I understand why many at PSU would not be sympathetic to Urban or OSU and am fine with it. On my end, I will simply point out some facts which are inconvenient to some people.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Would add that Meyer has said he reported it, which would totally take him off the hook.

Problem is that Meyer has said a lot of things recently that haven’t exactly instilled confidence that he’s telling the truth.

 

[dailybuck777]

If this Hiram guy - life coach- and Coach/grandpa Bruce - closest person to me other than my father - go to Mrs. Smith in a Soprano-like strong arming, how is that not on meyer?

More facts please. Particularly would like you to support the reference to Soprano Strong arming.

They could have easily done it on their own and kept it from Meyer to avoid burdening him. Meyer could hire anyone he wanted as a receiver's coach, and it seems clear that he was only trying to do a favor for Bruce -- not unfairly get some kind of competitive advantage.

 

[dailybuck777]

Problem is that Meyer has said a lot of things recently that haven’t exactly instilled confidence that he’s telling the truth.

Fair criticism.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

More facts please.

They could have easily done it on their own and kept it from Meyer to avoid burdening him. Meyer could hire anyone he wanted as a receiver's coach, and it seems clear that he was only trying to do a favor for Bruce -- not unfairly get some kind of competitive advantage.

Do you HONESTLY think Urby didn’t know about this? Maybe he didn’t send them and maybe he wasn’t aware of it the moment it happened.....but I’d bet the house he knew about it very soon thereafter.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Fair point and I understand that PSU has a good argument to make that Paterno got railroaded. I understand why many at PSU would not be sympathetic to Urban or OSU and am fine with it. On my end, I will simply point out some facts which are inconvenient to some people.

I’m not unsympathetic to Urban...he is what he is - a giant cog in the cesspool that is big-time college athletics. He’s a damn good coach, but that job description generally doesn’t include personal integrity these days.

I’m also not unsympathetic to tosu. It sucks to have a big fat cloud loom over such an enjoyable pastime. Most fans don’t deserve that (trust us...we know).

Now the VERY vocal portion of your fan base that has been among the worst in terms of rubbing our collective noses in Sandusky’s crimes...for them I have no sympathy or empathy. They can pound sand as far as I’m concerned....and choke on the big, fat humility sandwich being crammed down their collective pie holes.

 

[dailybuck777]

Now the VERY vocal portion of your fan base that has been among the worst in terms of rubbing our collective noses in Sandusky’s crimes...for them I have no sympathy or empathy. They can pound sand as far as I’m concerned....and choke on the big, fat humility sandwich being crammed down their collective pie holes.

You are 100% right.

 

[dailybuck777]

Do you HONESTLY think Urby didn’t know about this? Maybe he didn’t send them and maybe he wasn’t aware of it the moment it happened.....but I’d bet the house he knew about it very soon thereafter.

Eventually, he knew about it for sure. The issue is whether he had any active role. He had no reason to try be overly protective of ZS. ZS is not an elite coach, like for instance, Tom Herman. I could easily imagine him saying to Bruce -- see if you can take of it and don't bother me. If you do take care of it and his wife agrees, I will allow ZS to stay.

 

[kickerinaz]

dailybuck,

from a very down to earth working man , your 'lawyerspeak' seems like what is wrong on so many levels of society right now. Your defending 'your client ' CUM regardless of his morality/integrity. Usually that has become a money battle and d*u$h x gets off. Have fun rationalizing all this sir esquire.

 

[jemblue]

It's quite clear that Meyer knew Smith beat his wife in 2009, and knew as well in 2015. We've seen various text messages his wife sent to Shelly Meyer, and Shelly even said that Smith "scared" her. Buckeye fans are desperately trying to engage in mental gymnastics here, but the most straightforward conclusion is that Meyer knew quite well what was going on with Zach Smith - and he evidently didn't care, since he not only hired him twice (Florida then OSU) but repeatedly promoted him and gave him raises.

This really shouldn't be surprising. This is the same man whose Florida program was a complete train wreck off the field. Meyer enabled Aaron Hernandez, so it's not really a shocker he enabled Zach Smith. It really shouldn't be a question at this point whether or not this man should lead a major program and be a key representative of OSU.

The crucial issue is that $38 million buyout. The sticking point isn't whether Meyer knew (he did), it's whether he did just enough to avoid being fired with cause. If so, the question is, do you eat that $38M or keep him and deal with the bad publicity?

 

[JayWye]

More facts please. Particularly would like you to support the reference to Soprano Strong arming.

They could have easily done it on their own and kept it from Meyer to avoid burdening him. Meyer could hire anyone he wanted as a receiver's coach, and it seems clear that he was only trying to do a favor for Bruce -- not unfairly get some kind of competitive advantage.

C'mon, man...your rationalizing doesn't pass the giggle test...

 

[dailybuck777]

What you shouldn't do is lie about having someone on your staff that habitually kicks the shit out of his wife.

I found an article that mentions only 2009 and 2015 incidents where Smith physically attacked his wife. See https://www.thelantern.com/2018/08/...pattern-of-domestic-cases-against-zach-smith/ From what I have so far, I only know of two. You are welcome to add to the article's incidents.

Merriam defines habitual as "resorted to on a regular basis" You were obviously lynching and piling on with reference to "habitually kicks the shit out of his wife." unless you can add to the two incidents.

 

[dailybuck777]

I could easily imagine him saying to Bruce -- see if you can take of it and don't bother me. If you do take care of it and his wife agrees, I will allow ZS to stay.

This is wrong. Meyer said that he and his wife counseled the Smiths in 2009.

 

[michnittlion]

The crucial issue is that $38 million buyout. The sticking point isn't whether Meyer knew (he did), it's whether he did just enough to avoid being fired with cause. If so, the question is, do you eat that $38M or keep him and deal with the bad publicity?

$38,000,000 is a lot of money. Even Ohio State can't "eat" that very easily.

What is crazy: his buyout at this time last year was $21MM. Now it is $38MM. It went up by 80% in 1 year!

 

[michnittlion]

I found an article that mentions only 2009 and 2015 incidents where Smith physically attacked his wife. See https://www.thelantern.com/2018/08/...pattern-of-domestic-cases-against-zach-smith/ From what I have so far, I only know of two. You are welcome to add to the article's incidents.

Merriam defines habitual as "resorted to on a regular basis" You were obviously lynching and piling on with reference to "habitually kicks the shit out of his wife." unless you can add to the two incidents.

TWO separate reports were filed against ZS in 2015. One for domestic violence and felonious assault. The second was for menacing by stalking.

Now, yes, that second would not technically fall under the definition of "habitually kicks the shit out of his wife." It absolutely is behavior that is meant to mentally rattle his wife, though.

It is 100% absolutely fair to label Zach Smith as a habitual wife abuser. MENTAL abuse of his wife counts too.

 

[dailybuck777]

It is 100% absolutely fair to label Zach Smith as a habitual wife abuser. MENTAL abuse of his wife counts too.

I have no serious problem with that. That is different than kicking the shit out of your wife. If we are getting into mental abuse, it is also possible that CS mentally abused ZS in that she filed mutiple complaints and most did not result in restraining orders. Look at the comments to the Lantern article by women.

Slightly later edit. One of the commenters to the Lantern article mentioned that ZS recently remarried, which could be an explanation for the timing of the recent events.

 

[michnittlion]

I have no serious problem with that. That is different than kicking the shit out of your wife.

Fair enough.

I look forward to any future posts, where you appeal to the Merriam dictionary while being pedantic, looking up exact definitions in order to self-righteously lecture other posters on this board.

 

[dailybuck777]

looking up exact definitions in order to self-righteously lecture other posters on this board.

Inaccurately claiming someone habitually kicked the shit out of his wife is not a minor error of exposition. I am happy to point out these major inaccuracies.

 

[PSUinCali]

Urban Meyer gained no competitive advantage by continuing the employment of Zach Smith. He didn't need to fire him, he simply should not have supported having his contract renewed. However, it isn't like Meyer was the only person who knew of Zach and Courtney's toxic relationship. Gene Smith was in the loop.
Urban curiously took the bait at media day and lied about ZS. He should be more savvy than that. Football coaches are loyal to a fault. This one bit him in the ass. It doesn't make him a bad guy. He has daughters of his own.
He will likely be fined for his lie, but I can't see him losing his job over this.
I'm the biggest JVP fan in the world. But, I can't wish what happened to him on others. Remember, it was PSU own BOT that assassinated Joe. Everyone else pecked away at the carcass.

Can't argue with that....

 

[michnittlion]

Inaccurately claiming someone habitually kicked the shit out of his wife is not a minor error of exposition. I am happy to point out these major inaccuracies.

Bullshit. I see you as a human being who is self-righteous and looking to lecture others (I draw these conclusions not just from this thread, but other postings you've made on these boards).

But anyway, if you want to be pedantic, here is the definition of "habit":

"a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up."

Let's see. Zach Smith "kicked the shit out of his wife" in 2009, 2015 and now, it appears, 2018.

Seems to me that "kicking the shit out of his wife" is a "regular tendency or practice" on the part of Zach Smith, something "that is hard (for him) to give up."

Now, go parse that sentence above and that definition and post again.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Urban's Zero Tolerance in action. A lot like a buckeye suspension in action, one play.

Tragically this conference and the NCAA won't lift a finger to discipline OSU for the multiple violations of rules and loss of institutional control that existed for years with the abusive doctor and coach, etc. Three individual accounts of multiple egregious criminal activities? As it becomes more serious our officials distance themselves further and further from the abuses. Their silence is deafening. In the instance of PSU, due process was completely ignored and the media allowed to try and convict over a weekend but OSU is given a free ride to stall, duck, and cover as MSU has relatively also escaped the public wrath.

Next time I hear MSU and scandal mentioned during an athletic broadcast will be the 1st time as will OSU. Don't hold your breath for it.

 

[dailybuck777]

and now, it appears, 2018.

Wrong again. There is no evidence that Smith hit his wife in 2018. If anyone is being pedantic here, it is you.

 

[michnittlion]

Wrong again. There is no evidence that Smith hit his wife in 2018. If anyone is being pedantic here, it is you.

I guess that "domestic violence civil protection order" was just randomly applied to Zach Smith 2 weeks ago then.

Poor Zach Smith. Delaware County, Ohio is out to get him.

 

[dailybuck777]

I guess that "domestic violence civil protection order" was just randomly applied to Zach Smith 2 weeks ago then.

Civil protection orders can be issued in the absence of violence. "Ohio law defines Domestic Violence as conduct that threatens or actually causes physical harm to a family or household member. It also includes using a threat of force to cause a family or household member to believe that the offender will cause imminent physical harm. In more common terms, domestic violence includes physical violence, threats, intimidation, emotional or sexual abuse, etc. " http://barneydebrosse.com/civil-protection-orders/

My understanding of this was that it was ex parte and that ZS (as part of the typical initial procedure) was not permitted to give his side of the story. In any event, I would like to hear both sides and see the records from 2015 & 2009 when the police (who could file charges without the assent of CS in Ohio) decided not to file charges.

 

[OaktonDave]

[QUOTE="dailybuck777, post: 3582590,
If I said "only" that it was a bad mistake. Someone said that ZS was a habitual wife beater and I interpreted that as meaning 20 or 30 times. There is a difference between 4 times and 20 or 30 times in my book. [/QUOTE]

That speaks volumes about you. Physical abuse of a spouse is okay so long as it you don't do it too often and you earn a good living. At least you're honest about it, which is more than I can say for your team's head coach and his wife. I have to wonder how you and the Meyers would feel if the person on the receiving end of the mere four occasions of physical abuse was someone you gave a flip about.

 

[Westcoast24]

Because of the distractions this would cause once it became well known and possibly because he became familiar with more details.

So as long as he could have kept it hidden from media types then he could have kept him on staff?? As far as being familiar with more details, there were enough of those a long time ago.

 

[Judge Smails]

 

[Connorpozlee]

Dailybuck is coming off very much like the “Jerry and the boys were probably just cleaning up after a workout. The bear hug is odd but it doesn’t prove he assaulted the boys” group.

 

[KnightSlayer]

It is the job of the Powell police and not Urban to sanction Zach Smith. He has been personally implicated in zero incidents of domestic violence. When Carlos Hyde (after provocation) gave a girl a slight shove in a bar, he was suspended for 3 games, which caused him to lose Heisman consideration. (He gained 1500 yards after missing the games)

Parents of recruits could care less about this incident in light of Urban's coaching of Marshon Lattimore, Denzel Ward and the Bosas. Go to the LSU Board and see how happy they are to have OSU's third string quarterback from last year. Meyer did a great job both coaching and advising Cardale Jones when Jones initially had poor academic motivations and completely changed. Any young person that gets to play for Meyer is lucky. (The same with respect to Franklin)

It's real shitty to talk a women out of pressing charges and then use as an excuse for Meyer that no formal charges were ever pressed.

 

[interrobang]

Urban Meyer gained no competitive advantage by continuing the employment of Zach Smith. He didn't need to fire him, he simply should not have supported having his contract renewed. However, it isn't like Meyer was the only person who knew of Zach and Courtney's toxic relationship. Gene Smith was in the loop.
Urban curiously took the bait at media day and lied about ZS. He should be more savvy than that. Football coaches are loyal to a fault. This one bit him in the ass. It doesn't make him a bad guy. He has daughters of his own.
He will likely be fined for his lie, but I can't see him losing his job over this.
I'm the biggest JVP fan in the world. But, I can't wish what happened to him on others. Remember, it was PSU own BOT that assassinated Joe. Everyone else pecked away at the carcass.

But we've been taught that doing the right thing procedurally and legally doesn't matter. It only matters what you didn't do morally.

 

[harjeff]

Maybe to you, but not to me. If OSU keeps Meyer, it is standing up to political correctness. It should not be Meyer's job to second guess the police.

I just have one comment on that...for the most part I would agree with your statement...but
In 2009 we know Urban and Shelly counseled this couple about an incident that occurred in Florida and 2 people close to Urban convinced Courtney not to file charges as the coaches career would destroyed. Then in 2015 Shelly received texts of Courtney's beaten body and nothing is done except she replies that he scares me referring to Courtney's husband. How the heck does Urban keep this guy around after that, I mean Urban's own wife is scared of the guy!

 

[EdJumacated]

If Ohio St fans really care that much about a great football coach winning them games, let them keep Urban Meyer. Meyer has a pattern of actions showing that he is just horrible human being. At UF he was cheating on his wife very openly with coeds about his daughters' age and that team was loaded with criminals that imploded as Urban left with a fake excuse. Now he rehires a wife abuser that he's known about for a decade to Ohio St and continues to protect the abuser even when all of the coaches and their wives become aware of a wife abusing co-worker. There have been 9 domestics involving police in this time. There is a police report from 2015 in Ohio that the police department says had been altered from the original form which showed the coach was arrested.

This is what Ohio St fans want representing them? Seriously? Because if winning means that much, then the Ohio St fanbase deserves every label that they will get in supporting the winning over wife whacking. I agree that Ohio St should keep Urban Meyer as coach. Because that is who Ohio St really is. Ohio St has 3 concurrent abuse scandals in 3 different sports all where abuse went on for years and years only to be covered up for winning. Ohio St has multiple previous football head coaches who have left in disgrace for horrible acts.... but they won.

So it seems that Meyer is the perfect coach for Ohio St. He wins and is a horrible human being. It is what Ohio St wants representing them. It is why Ohio St fans are holding rallies for winning while covering up spouse abuse. It is ultimately Ohio St's choice but if they chose to retain Meyer, it is perfectly clear who they are and they no longer have to pretend.

 

[AvgUser]

Fair point and I understand that PSU has a good argument to make that Paterno got railroaded. I understand why many at PSU would not be sympathetic to Urban or OSU and am fine with it. On my end, I will simply point out some facts which are inconvenient to some people.

Bear in mind that you trivialize some of the 'facts' you cite.

'..only beat her 3 or 4 times; not 20-30'

That is rampant rationalization and invokes a corrupt thought process

 

[AWS1022]

Yes - and I corrected my post before your reply.

I've seen the Hyde video. When it comes to the sentence "Hyde slightly shoved a young woman" ... the key word in that sentence is "shoved", not "slight." And it WAS a "shove." Men shouldn't be shoving women.

Your opinion that "there is a difference between 4 times and 20-30 times in my book" --- I find that to be the opinion of a person with loose moral standards. Nothing personal against you, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

Beating a woman once, possibly forgivable. Twice, that would really be hard to forgive, but I suppose in some outlier situations. Three times - that's DEFINITELY three strikes.

And there were four times on record, which means there were likely a lot more.

 

[marshall23]

But we've been taught that doing the right thing procedurally and legally doesn't matter. It only matters what you didn't do morally.

Its painfully obvious that standard only applied to Joe Paterno. John Surma and Tom Corbett successfully destroyed Joe and by proxy forever stained PSU. Frank Noonan, Frank Fina, Louis Freeh and the NCAA were all willing contributors to the systematic destruction. As the hammer went down, you could count on Franco Harris's digits how man people laid it on the line for Joe.
Right under our noses several hundred million dollars were spent to cement this fable in the nation's consciousness.
Strictly looking at numbers, only a small percentage of alums even whimpered and have long since rolled over, farted and gone to sleep.
When something of this nature occurs, we awaken and cry out for some sort of parity. It doesn't exist. We were had. Be happy Karen with the flies on her and Rodney the ball less aren't apologizing to the Buckeye faithfull.
To rub salt in the wounds every scandal is compared to PSU and ours is usually pronounced worse.
Bottom line, and I know you will run and hide........John Ziegler.......and I'm not saying he is 100 percent correct......did more to help PSU than anyone other than perhaps Franco.

 

[OhioLion]

More facts please. Particularly would like you to support the reference to Soprano Strong arming.

Simply saying that if someone goes to the victim and convinces her not to file charges; that her life would be dramatically changed because of the income lost if husband is fired, it comes across as something the mob world would do.

Not saying they threatened her in any way. But to have the coach's two closest confidants persuade her in this manner, is not right.

OL

 

[marshall23]

Simply saying that if someone goes to the victim and convinces her not to file charges; that her life would be dramatically changed because of the income lost if husband is fired, it comes across as something the mob world would do.

Not saying they threatened her in any way. But to have the coach's two closest confidants persuade her in this manner, is not right.

OL

Sorry, where are the young woman's parents? I would think that they would be more influential than hubbies grandpa.If it were my child......she is coming home with me, until we have cool heads and sort things out. Why do we automatically assign bad intentions to people?

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[ivan brunetti]

If Zach Smith is innocent of all DV charges, why would OSU fire him for a simple trespassing charge to which he has pled not guilty?