Maybe Lando is right about bowl games

[Jerry]

I've dogged him for years about the many dumb things he says here...but after watching yesterday's fiasco featuring a D that didn't resemble the one that dominated during the regular season, maybe he's onto something regarding bowls. A lot of these games have become a fraud.

The good news is that the expanded 12-team playoff starting next year probably means almost everyone will play in those games. The bad news is that the many non-playoff bowl games are going to be a joke. What draftable kid in his right mind would play in one of them?

But the D aside, holy crap, our O was painful to watch against the Rebs. You don't beat good teams these days, either college or pro, without a strong performance from the QB. Drew has the talent, but the coaches either haven't developed it or haven't devised a system to make the most of it or haven't put the guys around him to make it pay off...or some combination thereof.

I wish I could say that's likely to change next year but can't think why it would...

 

[WPTLION]

I've dogged him for years about the many dumb things he says here...but after watching yesterday's fiasco featuring a D that didn't resemble the one that dominated during the regular season, maybe he's onto something regarding bowls. A lot of these games have become a fraud.

The good news is that the expanded 12-team playoff starting next year probably means almost everyone will play in those games. The bad news is that the many non-playoff bowl games are going to be a joke. What draftable kid in his right mind would play in one of them?

But the D aside, holy crap, our O was painful to watch against the Rebs. You don't beat good teams these days, either college or pro, without a strong performance from the QB. Drew has the talent, but the coaches either haven't developed it or haven't devised a system to make the most of it or haven't put the guys around him to make it pay off...or some combination thereof.

I wish I could say that's likely to change next year but can't think why it would...

Ya know we made a big deal out of beating Utah last year but forgot their QB was knocked out of the game.

 

[LionFan87b]

I've dogged him for years about the many dumb things he says here...but after watching yesterday's fiasco featuring a D that didn't resemble the one that dominated during the regular season, maybe he's onto something regarding bowls. A lot of these games have become a fraud.

The good news is that the expanded 12-team playoff starting next year probably means almost everyone will play in those games. The bad news is that the many non-playoff bowl games are going to be a joke. What draftable kid in his right mind would play in one of them?

But the D aside, holy crap, our O was painful to watch against the Rebs. You don't beat good teams these days, either college or pro, without a strong performance from the QB. Drew has the talent, but the coaches either haven't developed it or haven't devised a system to make the most of it or haven't put the guys around him to make it pay off...or some combination thereof.

I wish I could say that's likely to change next year but can't think why it would...

If one wants to make the argument that opt outs are ruining bowl games, then I can't disagree. But I'm pretty sure Lando's position is that bowl games are "meaningless scrimmages" even when all the players participate. And that's a ridiculous claim. A scrimmage is a practice game in which the goal is not to win, but to develop your team. If the teams in a bowl game play to win, then by definition, the game is not a scrimmage.

 

[LemonEars]

Yesterday's game felt like the Blue White game to me. Players seemed to play half-heartedly. Coaches didn't seem interested. Just compare yesterday's bowl game to many in the past like the Joe vs. Bobby Bowden Orange Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl against Miami or the Sugar Bowl against Georgia or . . .

No comparison. Yesterday's game was like a baseball grapefruit league game.

 

[KCLion]

Then just come out and say that it’s going to be a glorified scrimmage and save the fans the cost of travel. Don’t talk them up like it’s a big out of conference showdown.

 

[jbenedict]

It is interesting to listen to commentators. They tout statistics of the regular season, but fell to tell the audience the truth about how the product on the field has changed participating in the bowl game. Not the same, but they try their damnest to sell it as it is. All about the cash.

 

[wilbury]

Yesterday's game felt like the Blue White game to me. Players seemed to play half-heartedly. Coaches didn't seem interested. Just compare yesterday's bowl game to many in the past like the Joe vs. Bobby Bowden Orange Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl against Miami or the Sugar Bowl against Georgia or . . .

No comparison. Yesterday's game was like a baseball grapefruit league game.

I thought our guys played hard. No coordinators and too many holes in the defense was too much to overcome.

 

[LMTLION]

I've dogged him for years about the many dumb things he says here...but after watching yesterday's fiasco featuring a D that didn't resemble the one that dominated during the regular season, maybe he's onto something regarding bowls. A lot of these games have become a fraud.

The good news is that the expanded 12-team playoff starting next year probably means almost everyone will play in those games. The bad news is that the many non-playoff bowl games are going to be a joke. What draftable kid in his right mind would play in one of them?

But the D aside, holy crap, our O was painful to watch against the Rebs. You don't beat good teams these days, either college or pro, without a strong performance from the QB. Drew has the talent, but the coaches either haven't developed it or haven't devised a system to make the most of it or haven't put the guys around him to make it pay off...or some combination thereof.

I wish I could say that's likely to change next year but can't think why it would...

It is only a matter of time before you see large number of opt-outs in the playoff games. I am losing faith in my favorite sport.

 

[Waltwam]

It is only a matter of time before you see large number of opt-outs in the playoff games. I am losing faith in my favorite sport.

What's taken you so long?

 

[ryoder1]

Ya know we made a big deal out of beating Utah last year but forgot their QB was knocked out of the game.

We were winning that game despite that. The offense last year under Clifford was better. The D in the Rose Bowl was certainly better than the JV team out there yesterday.

 

[LMTLION]

What's taken you so long?

I love cfb very dearly. I can watch any game, any time. There is so much energy and enthusiasm vs the business-like nfl. It is a damn shame to see the possibility it diminishes or dies. It cannot survive as a 40 school super conference ( the obvious direction we are headed) with most of the country shut out. It cannot survive with only the southeast U.S. competing at an elite level. It cannot survive with so many opting out of big games as the fans will start opting out. I am not sure who advises these kids but the same (minuscule) number of kids make it to the nfl today vs 15 years ago and an even smaller number last more than a season or two.

 

[Safety Blitz]

Lando is absolutely correct.
The college football landscape has drastically changed over the last decade, and little of it is good for longtime fans. The reason for the changes, as always, is $$$.
Bowl games were limited in number back in the day. They were a chance for top teams to play schools that were rarely or never on their schedules and impress voters for the final polls.
There are now a million bowl games. Many bad teams get invited to bowl games every year. If your team doesn’t make the playoffs, it is just another non-league game with nothing at stake.
These games are fine for players with no professional aspirations, for boarder line NFL prospects who want another game on tape, for underclassmen hoping to compete for playing time the next season.
There is almost zero incentive for players projected to go in the top couple rounds of the draft to participate. They are looking at life-changing money. They sure as hell don’t care what some old message board fool or degenerate gambler thinks they should do. These kids are laughing all the way to the bank.
I’m continually shocked that football fans have not figured this out and adjusted their expectations accordingly.

 

[PennState_one]

It is interesting to listen to commentators. They tout statistics of the regular season, but fell to tell the audience the truth about how the product on the field has changed participating in the bowl game. Not the same, but they try their damnest to sell it as it is. All about the cash.

Yeah that is exactly what stuck out to me. It got so old hearing them talking up Ol Miss essentially tearing up the #1 defense in the country as if they were they were in fact, the #1 seed. It clearly was not the regular season Manny defense.

With that said, Ol Miss obviously played better yesterday.

 

[bdgan]

If one wants to make the argument that opt outs are ruining bowl games, then I can't disagree. But I'm pretty sure Lando's position is that bowl games are "meaningless scrimmages" even when all the players participate. And that's a ridiculous claim. A scrimmage is a practice game in which the goal is not to win, but to develop your team. If the teams in a bowl game play to win, then by definition, the game is not a scrimmage.

There are a lot of great football rivalries like Pitt vs WVa that have little to do with winning a national championship. Why even bother with the Army vs Navy game?

I always cheered for PSU to finish high in the polls even if they weren't in contention for a national championship. I also enjoyed playing teams from other conferences in bowl games that we don't typically play. But it's all effed up now. It's no longer about "student" athletes and it's becoming less about the fans (customers). IMO it sucks.

 

[heckmans]

I love cfb very dearly. I can watch any game, any time. There is so much energy and enthusiasm vs the business-like nfl. It is a damn shame to see the possibility it diminishes or dies. It cannot survive as a 40 school super conference ( the obvious direction we are headed) with most of the country shut out. It cannot survive with only the southeast U.S. competing at an elite level. It cannot survive with so many opting out of big games as the fans will start opting out. I am not sure who advises these kids but the same (minuscule) number of kids make it to the nfl today vs 15 years ago and an even smaller number last more than a season or two.

I believe the future is a ~20 team elite conference with the rest returning to something resembling the sport you love.

In the long term, I believe revenue college sports will die. Only in to he US does this exist. Basketball will easily transition to the developmental model that exists throughout the world for soccer, rugby, etc. the framework already exists with AAU and the G-League. Football will be harder due to numbers and costs, but something has to give. I can't see how it ends just yet, but it won't resemble anything we recognize, because that is already dead.

 

[bvillebaron]

Yesterday's game felt like the Blue White game to me. Players seemed to play half-heartedly. Coaches didn't seem interested. Just compare yesterday's bowl game to many in the past like the Joe vs. Bobby Bowden Orange Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl against Miami or the Sugar Bowl against Georgia or . . .

No comparison. Yesterday's game was like a baseball grapefruit league game.

We must have been watching a different game. Irrespective of how “meaningful” the game was I thought the kids who played came out ready to play and played hard the whole game but were simply over matched.

 

[ryoder1]

I don't think everything about the game is "meaningless". Extra practice time is probably the biggest benefit. With the opt outs the fan experience is horrible so you can't say it is a nice trip for fans unless you don't care at all about outcome and it is just another day excursion during your vacation. But even with all the opt outs as an excuse for why we lose, it still pains me to see PSU lose so it is a lousy experience. Especially when I know we could play much better.

 

[ryoder1]

I believe the future is a ~20 team elite conference with the rest returning to something resembling the sport you love.

In the long term, I believe revenue college sports will die. Only in to he US does this exist. Basketball will easily transition to the developmental model that exists throughout the world for soccer, rugby, etc. the framework already exists with AAU and the G-League. Football will be harder due to numbers and costs, but something has to give. I can't see how it ends just yet, but it won't resemble anything we recognize, because that is already dead.

I don't see the university affiliations ever dying but in say 20 years or whenever you will have different levels and probably an elite level is where there is NIL and the transfer portal. Maybe about 32 schools are in that division and start modeling a NFL system to determine the champion. The rest of the schools return to the true student amateur athlete model, no NIL and no transfer portal.

The top bowl games, New Years 6 bowls, are part of the elite division playoff. All the other bowls are part of the lower division with no opt outs, no transfer portal and no NIL.

There would need to be some kind of qualification criteria to be in the elite division like generating $x amount of NIL every year. Also a school could choose to drop out of the elite division for whatever reason but I don't know if they ever would because that is where all the money will be.

 

[jimarnp]

It is interesting to listen to commentators. They tout statistics of the regular season, but fell to tell the audience the truth about how the product on the field has changed participating in the bowl game. Not the same, but they try their damnest to sell it as it is. All about the cash.

Exactly. We were about 70-75% of the team that made the top 10. —They were about 95% of the team that made the top 11.
—We were a shell of the legitimate top ten team. As a comparative …. definitely not “apples to apples”

 

[Waltwam]

I love cfb very dearly. I can watch any game, any time. There is so much energy and enthusiasm vs the business-like nfl. It is a damn shame to see the possibility it diminishes or dies. It cannot survive as a 40 school super conference ( the obvious direction we are headed) with most of the country shut out. It cannot survive with only the southeast U.S. competing at an elite level. It cannot survive with so many opting out of big games as the fans will start opting out. I am not sure who advises these kids but the same (minuscule) number of kids make it to the nfl today vs 15 years ago and an even smaller number last more than a season or two.

I agree with most of what you've said . One point. We have become so addicted to sports that most people cannot give them up, so we'll watch regardless. I do think it's possible many of us start turning it off when it becomes unrecognizable like when a marriage that once had love that has died!

 

[Jerry]

If one wants to make the argument that opt outs are ruining bowl games, then I can't disagree. But I'm pretty sure Lando's position is that bowl games are "meaningless scrimmages" even when all the players participate. And that's a ridiculous claim. A scrimmage is a practice game in which the goal is not to win, but to develop your team. If the teams in a bowl game play to win, then by definition, the game is not a scrimmage.

Thanks, that's a good point. You're correct about his argument, which is totally off base. So Lando is right about bowl games...for the wrong reasons.

 

[Jerry]

It is only a matter of time before you see large number of opt-outs in the playoff games. I am losing faith in my favorite sport.

Yup, that will be the $64-dollar question: will surefire high draft picks take the next step and opt out even of playoff games? I mean, setting aside the honor of playing for the glory of Dear Old State, the logic is pretty much the same.

 

[NewEra 2014]

We were winning that game despite that. The offense last year under Clifford was better. The D in the Rose Bowl was certainly better than the JV team out there yesterday.

Penn State played very well in that Rose Bowl, perhaps the best game Penn State has played against a top 15 team in years. I agree that Penn State was likely to win that game despite Utah losing their QB. But Penn State was playing their A game, and they needed to do so in order to beat Utah.

 

[Jerry]

We must have been watching a different game. Irrespective of how “meaningful” the game was I thought the kids who played came out ready to play and played hard the whole game but were simply over matched.

Agreed. I think the effort was there. But our starting cornerbacks opt out while their QB gets in a rhythm and starts throwing dimes all over the field to wide receivers who actually make plays. Tough combination.

However, I do wish our kids would stop showboating after making good plays in games already lost. Bad look.

Unfortunately, the injury to Abdul Carter, which hopefully is not serious but easily could have been, shows why a lot of kids opt out. For the life of me, I don't know why he was allowed back in the game. He was obviously hobbled after the injury. It was like playing with 10 guys on D.

 

[LionFan87b]

Unfortunately, the injury to Curtis Jacobs, which hopefully is not serious but easily could have been, shows why a lot of kids opt out. For the life of me, I don't know why he was allowed back in the game. He was obviously hobbled after the injury. It was like playing with 10 guys on D.

I think you mean Abdul Carter, and I agree he had no business being on the field at that point. But right or wrong, the fact that they let him try to play through it contradicts the notion of the game being a "meaningless scrimmage." Have we ever seen that happen in a true scrimmage, such as the Blue White game? If so, someone please point it out to me. Franklin has been here for 10 years now, so there were plenty of chances for that to happen.

 

[Jerry]

I agree with most of what you've said . One point. We have become so addicted to sports that most people cannot give them up, so we'll watch regardless. I do think it's possible many of us start turning it off when it becomes unrecognizable like when a marriage that once had love that has died!

Well I gave up pro sports after they became sickeningly politicized a few years ago. Now I just don't care.

As for the college game, the Orange Bowl is Exhibit A of what we're talking about. What a disgrace to the sport. Half the Seminoles opted out, and Georgia demolished the shell of a team that remained. Even Kirby Smart said after the game that things can't go on like this...which doesn't mean they won't.

 

[Jerry]

I think you mean Abdul Carter, and I agree he had no business being on the field at that point. But right or wrong, the fact that they let him try to play through it contradicts the notion of the game being a "meaningless scrimmage." Have we ever seen that happen in a true scrimmage, such as the Blue White game? If so, someone please point it out to me. Franklin has been here for 10 years now, so there were plenty of chances for that to happen.

Yup, sorry, brain freeze there...I did mean Abdul Carter. I've corrected it in the earlier post.

 

[WPTLION]

We were winning that game despite that. The offense last year under Clifford was better. The D in the Rose Bowl was certainly better than the JV team out there yesterday.

It was tied at 14 when he went out, 1st possession of 3rd qtr

 

[Dynoman]

There is just a certain element when you watch our offense that just isn’t there . Never a continuity, always seems a struggle to get first downs . I know competition matters , but I witness so many other CFB teams move the ball well . We just sputter along and accept that barely getting a first down is good enough …..

 

[LionFan87b]

It was tied at 14 when he went out, 1st possession of 3rd qtr

I don't think so: https://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay/_/gameId/401442014

 

[KCLion]

Lando is absolutely correct.
The college football landscape has drastically changed over the last decade, and little of it is good for longtime fans. The reason for the changes, as always, is $$$.
Bowl games were limited in number back in the day. They were a chance for top teams to play schools that were rarely or never on their schedules and impress voters for the final polls.
There are now a million bowl games. Many bad teams get invited to bowl games every year. If your team doesn’t make the playoffs, it is just another non-league game with nothing at stake.
These games are fine for players with no professional aspirations, for boarder line NFL prospects who want another game on tape, for underclassmen hoping to compete for playing time the next season.
There is almost zero incentive for players projected to go in the top couple rounds of the draft to participate. They are looking at life-changing money. They sure as hell don’t care what some old message board fool or degenerate gambler thinks they should do. These kids are laughing all the way to the bank.
I’m continually shocked that football fans have not figured this out and adjusted their expectations accordingly.

Hmmm, I heard that Bo Nix is playing for Oregon.

 

[LandoComando]

Thanks, that's a good point. You're correct about his argument, which is totally off base. So Lando is right about bowl games...for the wrong reasons.

Wrong...my reasoning is correct. The opt outs are occurring because the playoff made the games irrelevant. If starters begin opting out of playoff games then you can say I'm wrong.

 

[LMTLION]

Well I gave up pro sports after they became sickeningly politicized a few years ago. Now I just don't care.

As for the college game, the Orange Bowl is Exhibit A of what we're talking about. What a disgrace to the sport. Half the Seminoles opted out, and Georgia demolished the shell of a team that remained. Even Kirby Smart said after the game that things can't go on like this...which doesn't mean they won't.

I was surprised that Smart had the decency to state the truth. Things cannot go on like this anymore.

 

[LandoComando]

Bowl games are prepared for the next year. Coaches make that clear while not publicly bashing bowls because of the money involved. It's okay to admit it.

 

[LionFan87b]

Wrong...my reasoning is correct. The opt outs are occurring because the playoff made the games irrelevant. If starters begin opting out of playoff games then you can say I'm wrong.

You see this in very black and white terms. Players opt out of non-playoff bowl games not because they are irrelevant, but because they matter less than playoff games. And because there is less stigma in doing so. There are shades of gray here. I find it hard to believe Franklin would have let Carter continue playing the other day in an irrelevant game. If you can show me a history of him doing that in Blue White games, then I will retract that statement.

 

[WPTLION]

I don't think so: https://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay/_/gameId/401442014

He got hurt on the first possession and tried to play in the second. So yes him getting knocked out of game affected the outcome. And it was tied at 14 when he get hurt .

 

[LandoComando]

You see this in very black and white terms. Players opt out of non-playoff bowl games not because they are irrelevant, but because they matter less than playoff games. And because there is less stigma in doing so. There are shades of gray here. I find it hard to believe Franklin would have let Carter continue playing the other day in an irrelevant game. If you can show me a history of him doing that in Blue White games, then I will retract that statement.

Because they don't matter. What impact does the outcome truly have?
I think Franklin allowed Carer to decide which is a mistake. And I have no doubt it a kid said he could go in the Blue/White game Franklin would let him.

Win or lose...it has no impact. There's 4 teams in the playoffs. The kids know this. Those that play compete because it's what they do. Same as all of us in our beer leagues.

 

[LandoComando]

I truly believe where we're headed is FBS will broken into 3 groups. The SEC/Big Ten will expand to 24 and form the top level. The Big XII/ACC will merge and add teams to get to about 60-72 teams and form their own playoff. The remaining schools will be the third tied. Three 12 team playoffs and the other tiers, especially the second, will do very well as many will still that as "old school college football" with the top tier spending NIL money to beat up on the Northwesterns of the world in it for the $$$

 

[LionFan87b]

Because they don't matter. What impact does the outcome truly have?
I think Franklin allowed Carer to decide which is a mistake. And I have no doubt it a kid said he could go in the Blue/White game Franklin would let him.

Win or lose...it has no impact. There's 4 teams in the playoffs. The kids know this. Those that play compete because it's what they do. Same as all of us in our beer leagues.

1. The impact is that you challenge yourself and find out how good you are. That is the VERY ESSENCE of sports. All the rest, including fans, records, trophies and titles, are superfluous. It's the same reason why your beer league games matter.

2. If a four team playoff makes all the other bowl games irrelevant, then why weren't most bowl games irrelevant for the past 100 years? For example, why wasn't the '94 Rose Bowl irrelevant? By the time that game started, the title had already been guaranteed for Nebraska. Bottom line is that in any bowl game, you're either playing for a title or you are not. That was true before the playoffs.

 

[heckmans]

Thanks, that's a good point. You're correct about his argument, which is totally off base. So Lando is right about bowl games...for the wrong reasons.

Splitting hairs. Just replace scrimmage with 'exhibition'
Bowls are exhibition games. Some people see value in them for various reasons, but in the grand scheme of the competition of CFB, they are inconsequential.