2024 NCAA's - Day 3 - Match/discussion thread

[AgSurfer]

Shortest-lived celebration ever, and for what? If we can't enjoy this, what can we enjoy?

I posted this morning that it was raining and I was sitting in my recliner with my gas fireplace and kitties in my lap getting ready to watch wrestling.

Well the day is over, the good guys won and I’m back in my recliner with kitties in my lap and the gas fireplace is running. I’m enjoying my down time immensely.

The obvious thing to do now is go over to the GIA website and get some pictures of disgusted Iowa fans.

 

[okinburg1]

Brooks rode Hidlay like a dime store pony.

Or a rented mule???

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

He won 7 in a row at nationals, 5 by bonus, including dubs over the 1, 3 and 5 seeds. Up a weight class. As a true freshman. Forced into the lineup after the starter got hurt.

I’m not counting him out of anything.

Kasak had a really good run in the consolation bracket, for sure. But, again, I don't consider Kasak up a weight class at 149, which is likely his optimal weight at the moment. If anything, he was down a weight class at 141.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

No I don't. You don't try to worsen an injury, and maybe disable a guy-and suggesting it's a legitimate target is wrong. You don't target hospitals.

Okay, bro. My post referred only to the colorful embellishment of the Tonya Harding remark, but okay.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Burroughs: Mendez is an Ohio kid.

Fact: Mendez is from Indiana.

Hey, they're both in the Midwest. Just like Pennsylvania.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I can't even imagine thinking Johnson and Gibbons were as bad as Cormier and Burroughs. That's laughable. I could actually stand to listen to Tim and Jim, whereas Cormier is a certified yapper and a lousy commentator and Burroughs is out there threatening injuries.

I couldn't make it long before muting and putting on Byers.

Why anyone would want Burroughs as a head coach is beyond me. I don't say that just because of the CS comment. He lacked professionalism at times in the broadcast and I kept thinking about what an AD would think if their coach said some of those things. I don't remember what made me think that but it was my distinct impression.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I posted this morning that it was raining and I was sitting in my recliner with my gas fireplace and kitties in my lap getting ready to watch wrestling.

Well the day is over, the good guys won and I’m back in my recliner with kitties in my lap and the gas fireplace is running. I’m enjoying my down time immensely.

The obvious thing to do now is go over to the GIA website and get some pictures of disgusted Iowa fans.

What's funny is that I watched the finals last night on the sofa with a cat on either side of me snoring. Like Mike Evans, they were not impressed by PSU's performance last night. Not even a little bit.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

That's a complete non-sequitur from Burroughs.

Put Jeff Byers on TV.

Jeff could make muddy shoes sound exciting. I muted ESPN the whole time.

 

[psualt]

When did Burroughs threaten to injure Carter?

All he said was he would attack a weak point. Which is absolutely true for any competitor, and legal.

If the roles were reversed -- Burroughs wore a bulky knee brace and Carter were healthy -- Carter would absolutely go after it, without the tiniest bit of remorse. As he should. If an opponent has a weakness and you don't try to exploit it, you're not competing.

Burroughs' mistake here was personalizing it. Had he said everyone at trials would go after Carter's knee, he'd still be right, because it's so obvious. But he said "I would" and therefore everyone here has lost their minds.

Spot on.

 

[oldcougar65]

Literally didn’t know the score.

Oh well, live and learn.

My best friend in HS lost the semi-finals of states because he lost track of the score. I was on the side of the mat screaming, "Your losing. He has riding time." It did no good. My friend stalled out the end of the bout and lost on RT. A couple of years later he was wrestling for Penn and did the same damn thing at the EIWA quarters. I was watching with Dave Icenhower, later HOF coach at Trenton State. And now he's an extremely highly paid surgeon. Wouldn't let him operate on me.

As a coach, one of the primary things I taught my kids was 'mat sense'. Know the score. Know where you are on the mat. How close is OOB? What's the time remaining?
The wrestler should keep that info in his head all of the time during the match. My kids won so many close bouts often because they knew the score, period.

In HS at sectional finals, the coach of the other wrestler told me as the bout ended: "We're going to beat you in OT!" I smiled at him and said, "There's no riding time. I won!" It was close, time-wise, but I was right. A few weeks later at the finals of Regions, we were tied at the end of regulation, but I thought I was short of RT, so we were going to OT. The ref must have looked at the clocks for 5 minutes before he came back and raised my hand. Must have had RT by 1 second.
btw, my high school athletic director was on the riding time clock both times. Funny coincidence.

 

[Aardvark86]

hec

Jeff could make muddy shoes sound exciting. I muted ESPN the whole time.

he could, and he does, but part of the reason he does is that he’s doing a radio pbp.

A very different style of announcing.

Cormier was gawdawful. Burroughs seems to have gotten worse over the years.

 

[billrag]

OK, so it's the morning after and I'm drinking coffee (getting ready to go Crappie fishing on Lake Hartwell) and I've had a little bit of time to think about what we just witnessed. Damn. I still can't shake feeling poorly for Davis, Nagao and especially Bartlett and Mesenbrink. Davis and Nagao had their chance and they didn't capitalize (although they both scored, both made the blood round and both contributed, so they can proudly share in the team title), but Bartlett and Mesenbrink both wrestled very well in this championship, especially Bartlett who wrestled extremely well against Mendez last night. He was "reaction time" away from winning the match and clearly would have won had he been able to return Mendez to the mat after getting behind. It's one of the things he struggles a bit with because of his height/length and I feel really horrible for him, especially since he's a senior (although I really think he DOES come back and really think he WILL win a title next year).

What's really, really obvious here is that PSU not only recruits great wrestlers, but these are also really, really great kids. I would have been super proud of either of my sons had they handled themselves as well and given the kinds of interviews that all of the PSU wrestlers gave in these championships. PSU has an awesome training staff and facilities, that's clear. BUT, it should also be beyond argument that PSU's coaching staff stands alone at the top of the podium. These kids are prepared better every single year than the competition. They don't always win (well, they usually do), but they're ready each and every year and the improvement that you see is patently obvious. I really thought some of the opponents last night might be trouble. Teemer's a bit of an unknown to most of us, but he's an athlete and can be problematic, Davison had an awesome championship and looked REALLY good coming in and Hidlay also looked really poised and confident. We pick on him because he wrestles the edge of the mat against Brooks, but he wrestled balls to the wall for the rest of the season and looked great against anyone not named Brooks (the semi-final against Sloan was a REALLY good match and super entertaining). Think about it, wrestling Aaron Brooks would be like wrestling a transformer. And while Aaron was arguably the top recruit in the country when he came in, he was nowhere near this polished at that point and I'm sure he'd admit that he owes a LOT of thought to his coaches and possibly to guys like David Taylor.

Just a truly incredible thing and I'm sure we all feel like we've just eaten a big Thanksgiving meal. Yeah, it's going to be fun to watch the Olympic trials and the international wrestling this year (I'm a folkstyle guy, but you take what you can get), but I'm sure all of us are ready for the 2024/2025 season NOW. Great job all around PSU, especially to the "room guys" that get almost none of the credit but who sacrifice immensely.

 

[billrag]

My best friend in HS lost the semi-finals of states because he lost track of the score. I was on the side of the mat screaming, "Your losing. He has riding time." It did no good. My friend stalled out the end of the bout and lost on RT. A couple of years later he was wrestling for Penn and did the same damn thing at the EIWA quarters. I was watching with Dave Icenhower, later HOF coach at Trenton State. And now he's an extremely highly paid surgeon. Wouldn't let him operate on me.

As a coach, one of the primary things I taught my kids was 'mat sense'. Know the score. Know where you are on the mat. How close is OOB? What's the time remaining?
The wrestler should keep that info in his head all of the time during the match. My kids won so many close bouts often because they knew the score, period.

In HS at sectional finals, the coach of the other wrestler told me as the bout ended: "We're going to beat you in OT!" I smiled at him and said, "There's no riding time. I won!" It was close, time-wise, but I was right. A few weeks later at the finals of Regions, we were tied at the end of regulation, but I thought I was short of RT, so we were going to OT. The ref must have looked at the clocks for 5 minutes before he came back and raised my hand. Must have had RT by 1 second.
btw, my high school athletic director was on the riding time clock both times. Funny coincidence.

You can't make me believe that Mesenbrink doesn't have a reasonably high wrestling IQ and the commensurate "mat sense", but you've got a true freshman who's wrestling a former national champion on the biggest stage he's ever imagined. I think he was just excited and lost sense of what the reality was because of adrenaline, the crowd, the noise, the excitement, etc.. It happens. Someone else mentioned that briefly the matside score did say Mesenbrink 8 Carr 7 and that may have been the last time he looked and that he thought he actually WAS leading by 1 at the end of regulation. Whatever.

I actually feel worse for Beau Bartlett today because Beau's a senior (with a year of eligibility remaining) and because he wrestled a FABULOUS tactical match and wrestled better than Mendez (whereas I'm not sure that I'd claim the same for Mesenbrink). Doesn't matter now, the match is over and Mitchell (the Missile) lost, but we get to watch him 3 more times and I'd actually be a little bit surprised if he doesn't become a 3-time champion.

 

[PSUer1989]

In all of my excitement last night (really an incredible tournament!), it dawned on me that we now have to wait eight months for next season😕 At least @NittanyLion84 had given us plenty of JB field videos to watch to help the time fly!

 

[Raw Daddy]

Yep, you and I are in complete agreement here.

We just got 4 champs, two 4x champs, broke the scoring record, broke the margin of victory record ... and we're angry about something a color commentator said or didn't say?

Shortest-lived celebration ever, and for what? If we can't enjoy this, what can we enjoy?

Eh, don't let a few bad apples spoil the bushel. I've been partying all night with "Is that Sugar Shane". Guy never quits.

 

[mhlarch]

Cormier said he got the prelim brackets and Carter was the 7, then got re-seeded 9.

Jeez.

Lewis and Griffith have to be sick.

Agreed....the seeding was lousy for this bracket! Bottom half of the bracket was really weak. Of course you have to use the criteria they have established, but isn't there any room for some common sense adjustments? If they thought they were punishing Carter, they instead punished Lewis and/or Griffith. Should have been a Carter vs Lewis/Griffith final.

 

[Lyons212]

Why anyone would want Burroughs as a head coach is beyond me. I don't say that just because of the CS comment. He lacked professionalism at times in the broadcast and I kept thinking about what an AD would think if their coach said some of those things. I don't remember what made me think that but it was my distinct impression.

JB would be fine as a HC. He will be able to recruit. The key would be the resources available to his program. Anybody who has coached has said things that you realize could have been worded better.

JB’s problem on the broadcast was that he should be the color guy with a play-by-play broadcaster to keep him focused. The broadcast lacked professionals and was really a few guys watching wrestling together and bullshitting about it over a few beers. Hence lots of dumb comments.

 

[Chris92]

The hawks missed out on a team trophy, but they didn’t go home empty handed. The two most powerful blocs in wrestling, The Slush and the PAID IOWA HATERS, sponsored and presented them with the inaugural LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AWARD. Guess it’s true, you get what you earn.

I've been with a hospitalized loved one the past couple days and haven't seen much of the tourney, let alone the message boards. Can anyone bring me up to speed on the GOAT? Is it still last season's 6th place finisher at 125? TIA.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

well I though Drake had the Merkel for a second

He did, Terry must not have seen it.

 

[Franklinstheman]

I have had the TV on mute for the last 3 days

And crank up the other JB. correct?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

He had the ankle first and by the time he grabbed the shoe time was out. It was a td

How long does a Merkle have to be in to be called a TD.
I looked to me like TD Ayala (merkle) then reversal Fig.

 

[El-Jefe]

Agreed....the seeding was lousy for this bracket! Bottom half of the bracket was really weak. Of course you have to use the criteria they have established, but isn't there any room for some common sense adjustments? If they thought they were punishing Carter, they instead punished Lewis and/or Griffith. Should have been a Carter vs Lewis/Griffith final.

My issue here is that they got the seeds right in the first place and then "commen sense adjusted" their way into that dreck.

It made for a legendary story -- One-Legged Carter beat 2 returning national champs. But Carter's original seed was fairer to both Lewis and Griffith, would've balanced the two halves, and would've made for a far more compelling finals vs returning champ Lewis (which would've been the final had Carter not gotten hurt).

 

[El-Jefe]

How long does a Merkle have to be in to be called a TD.
I looked to me like TD Ayala (merkle) then reversal Fig.

I'd have to re-watch it but don't think Ayala ever had both the side headlock and the leg hooked simultaneously. He did have his leg between Figs' legs but missed where he had it hooked, at least beyond reaction time.

 

[mhlarch]

My issue here is that they got the seeds right in the first place and then "commen sense adjusted" their way into that dreck.

It made for a legendary story -- One-Legged Carter beat 2 returning national champs. But Carter's original seed was fairer to both Lewis and Griffith, would've balanced the two halves, and would've made for a far more compelling finals vs returning champ Lewis (which would've been the final had Carter not gotten hurt).

Ahhh yes, I got that mixed up, you are right. Really a shame for Lewis and Griffith, but super happy for Carter running that gauntlet and coming out on top.

 

[AgSurfer]

I'd have to re-watch it but don't think Ayala ever had both the side headlock and the leg hooked simultaneously. He did have his leg between Figs' legs but missed where he had it hooked, at least beyond reaction time.

I watched Figueroa wrestle in HS numerous times and he was always attacking from neutral. I’m a little surprised how he has changed his style to score points more from counter- attacks.

Either way, he wrestled very smart tournament and deserved the win last night. I have a feeling that after Friday’s quarters match, Davis is going to have him in his sights next season.

 

[El-Jefe]

Why anyone would want Burroughs as a head coach is beyond me. I don't say that just because of the CS comment. He lacked professionalism at times in the broadcast and I kept thinking about what an AD would think if their coach said some of those things. I don't remember what made me think that but it was my distinct impression.

We're spoiled at Penn State by our coaches in most sports if not all.

ADs would assign a PR staffer to coach him up. NO way they would reject Burroughs over a broadcast like that -- just look at the number of coaches across sports that do far more egregious things and keep getting hired.

For example:

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

It is 0522 hours here in San Diego and I just spent the last four hours or so watching the Finals and going through this 30 page thread for the first time. I had a very busy last three days so I was always playing catchup watching the tournament and following along here. I got home last night all excited to watch the Finals, which I had set up to record on my DVR. Due to a loss of signal, the recording ended in the first period of Greg's match! Not wanting to know the outcome of the matches I set up my DVR to record the 0030 showing of the tournament and went to bed. I woke up at 0130 and just couldn't resist watching the Finals.

Such a fun time to be a Penn state wrestling fan! I can't believe they scored 172.5 points while Davis (the #1 seed) and Nagao combined for only five points, Beau and Mitchell lost very tight matches, and they lost some probable bonus points if Carter had been healthy. Given just those three factors alone, Penn State could have reasonably passed 180+ team points. Having six finalists (which very well could have been seven if SVN had not been injured) is just ridiculous. Also, I can't foresee any other team (except maybe another Penn State team) ever getting close to the 100 point margin of victory.

Regarding some of the Penn State wrestlers, Tyler's run of seven straight backside victories was a sight to behold. Losing your first match and finishing the tournament with 19 points (especially as a true freshman) is quite the accomplishment. Carter accomplishing what he did with that injury was just so impressive. I don't know that I have ever seen a wrestler as mentally tough as Carter. Greg looked great in his Finals match. Those low single/ankle picks he hit were nasty. If he returns next season, I don't foresee anyone really challenging him. Regarding Aaron, I must say I was a little worried about his match with Hidlay because of how dominant Hidlay has looked all season, but Aaron completely shut him down. It is rare to see any wrestler, especially at 197 pounds, be so technically proficient. As far as being a great technician, I would put Aaron right up there with the greatest wrestlers ever. Aaron is going to be a real threat as he transitions into his full-time freestyle career. I can't wait!

On a final note, I want to thank everyone on this forum who makes it the best out there. I can't tell you how many countless hours I have spent on here this season. I appreciate what you all bring to the table, especially those who have helped me improve my vocabulary! I have also learned, especially in the last few weeks, that the Ignore function is your friend : ) Thanks again for making this season so enjoyable as a Penn State wrestling fan!

 

[ss7]

We're spoiled at Penn State by our coaches in most sports if not all.

ADs would assign a PR staffer to coach him up. NO way they would reject Burroughs over a broadcast like that -- just look at the number of coaches across sports that do far more egregious things and keep getting hired.

For example:

I bet there are a lot of current HCs that would say some pretty wild sh*t if you them in front of a mic for 2+ hours.

 

[El-Jefe]

I watched Figueroa wrestle in HS numerous times and he was always attacking from neutral. I’m a little surprised how he has changed his style to score points more from counter- attacks.

Either way, he wrestled very smart tournament and deserved the win last night. I have a feeling that after Friday’s quarters match, Davis is going to have him in his sights next season.

It's Zeke. Teemer was much more aggressive in HS too.

Gotta hand it to Levi and the coaches -- they figured out that Teemer would wrestle the same way Figs did, and Levi wrestled an absolutely masterful match.

All of those matches against Lewan paid off.

 

[Johnbrooks]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

 

[donboy6499]

My best friend in HS lost the semi-finals of states because he lost track of the score. I was on the side of the mat screaming, "Your losing. He has riding time." It did no good. My friend stalled out the end of the bout and lost on RT. A couple of years later he was wrestling for Penn and did the same damn thing at the EIWA quarters. I was watching with Dave Icenhower, later HOF coach at Trenton State. And now he's an extremely highly paid surgeon. Wouldn't let him operate on me.

As a coach, one of the primary things I taught my kids was 'mat sense'. Know the score. Know where you are on the mat. How close is OOB? What's the time remaining?
The wrestler should keep that info in his head all of the time during the match. My kids won so many close bouts often because they knew the score, period.

In HS at sectional finals, the coach of the other wrestler told me as the bout ended: "We're going to beat you in OT!" I smiled at him and said, "There's no riding time. I won!" It was close, time-wise, but I was right. A few weeks later at the finals of Regions, we were tied at the end of regulation, but I thought I was short of RT, so we were going to OT. The ref must have looked at the clocks for 5 minutes before he came back and raised my hand. Must have had RT by 1 second.
btw, my high school athletic director was on the riding time clock both times. Funny coincidence.

Those are awesome stories. People who don’t participate in sports, either coaching or playing, I don’t know how they ever experience those feelings of highs and lows. I suppose drugs and alcohol

It happens, losing track. Like I mentioned in another post, that was probably the first time in the wrestler’s life that riding time ever had to be considered with any stakes other than earning it for a major or tech.

 

[donboy6499]

It's Zeke. Teemer was much more aggressive in HS too.

Gotta hand it to Levi and the coaches -- they figured out that Teemer would wrestle the same way Figs did, and Levi wrestled an absolutely masterful match.

All of those matches against Lewan paid off.

Jacori never factored in that his 4 corner stall would look like a full court press after the things Levi’s seen from Mr. Lewan.

 

[Reslo]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

Congratulations to Aaron and his family! Best of luck on the world stage.

 

[tikk10]

I had pretty great seats last night.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

Plus, I now take everything Carter has ever said at face value. I'm sure they could find him a course that isn't too terrible to sit through.

If the staff doing laundry rumors are true… I’m sure Cael will look diligently into classes for Carter!

 

[SlipperyPete12]

Finals Matches:

 

[Pennstate1985]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

Congrats to Aaron and your family Mr Brooks. I remember being excited that Aaron was coming to PSU. Can't believe he is done already. I bet the time was faster for you. You and your wife have raised a good son. Much to be proud about I'm sure. Take care and please drop by with words of wisdom occasionally.

 

[oldcougar65]

I've been watching wrestling for a very long time and have seen most of the greats. Aaron Brooks may be the most technically sound wrestler I've ever watched in college. And he has terrific balance. And his strength must be awesome, cause he wrestles guys that regularly hammer others with their power, and he barely flinches.
All of those accolades means that AB ranks with the greatest wrestlers of all time.
It's like someone set out to design the perfect wrestling machine and came up with Aaron Brooks.

 

[a_mshaffer]

When did Burroughs threaten to injure Carter?

All he said was he would attack a weak point. Which is absolutely true for any competitor, and legal.

If the roles were reversed -- Burroughs wore a bulky knee brace and Carter were healthy -- Carter would absolutely go after it, without the tiniest bit of remorse. As he should. If an opponent has a weakness and you don't try to exploit it, you're not competing.

Burroughs' mistake here was personalizing it. Had he said everyone at trials would go after Carter's knee, he'd still be right, because it's so obvious. But he said "I would" and therefore everyone here has lost their minds.

I was listening to both Byers and the TV... but I heard it and thought he was joking, trying to be funny....

 

[Diego Badman]

I have read much of the commentary on Mitch’s match. My thought was that he knew exactly what was going on. He felt like he could not ride Carr long enough to melt off the RT. He also felt that he had the momentum and could get another TD. The problem was that he left the match in the hands of the ref. No doubt, Carr should have been hit and the match would have gone to Mitch since it would have been 2 points. But, it did not play out that way, and you have to live with the results.