2024 NCAA's - Day 3 - Match/discussion thread

[AgSurfer]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

Congratulations to Aaron and your whole family! Someday soon, you and your wife should sit down and write an instruction manual on how to raise children the right way. Aaron is such a role model for everyone in so many ways. Here’s to his ongoing success in freestyle competition.

 

[hlstone]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

See you at Trials!! 🔥🔥🔥

 

[TangSoo]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

Thank you John, for the great son you raised and loaned us for 5 years (and counting). He is an all-time great wrestler and a better person! He's been an absolute joy and fill us with pride.

 

[Diego Badman]

I've been watching wrestling for a very long time and have seen most of the greats. Aaron Brooks may be the most technically sound wrestler I've ever watched in college. And he has terrific balance. And his strength must be awesome, cause he wrestles guys that regularly hammer others with their power, and he barely flinches.
All of those accolades means that AB ranks with the greatest wrestlers of all time.
It's like someone set out to design the perfect wrestling machine and came up with Aaron Brooks.

Absolutely true.

And, he is a master tactician on the mat. He adjusts to everything so well.

I think he is a legitimate threat to DT’s Olympic’s spot. No disrespect to David at all. I just think that Aaron is something very special.

 

[nerfstate]

 

[tikk10]

Thank you to the greatest fans in the world! The support for our son has been amazing! We truly appreciate PSU nation! How cool
Was that to witness the GREATEST WRESTLING TEAM IN NCAA HISTORY!! So awesome. Thank you!!

Thanks for sharing Aaron with us these past five years, John. We were blessed to watch him become one of the greatest--perhaps even the greatest wrestler--this program has ever witnessed. And as great a person.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I’ve read your additional edits and I think you’re right. We’re reading something into Burroughs statement that he really didn’t say. However, I think we both agree that he should have exercised some discretion about the topic. There are probably a lot of Carter fans who don’t post here that are reading a malicious intent into what Burroughs said.

Carter's fans??? Really? Big fan of Carter and I find nothing wrong with what Borroughs said. Carter has less mobility on that leg, so of course you're going to attack that leg. How precisely do you get a TD without attacking one of the legs? Just because you're attacking a leg to try to get a TD and score, does not mean you're trying to re-injure the leg. To suggest that an opponent should consider an injured leg "off limits" for attacking is so absurd, it isn't even funny - that would be giving you're opponent a massive advantage.

The people making negative comments about what Borroughs said are probably general PSU fans who know little about wrestling.

 

[AgSurfer]

Carter's fans??? Really? Big fan of Carter and I find nothing wrong with what Borroughs said. Carter has less mobility on that leg, so of course you're going to attack that leg. How precisely do you get a TD without attacking one of the legs? Just because you're attacking a leg to try to get a TD and score, does not mean you're trying to re-injure the leg. To suggest that an opponent should consider an injured leg "off limits" for attacking is so absurd, it isn't even funny - that would be giving you're opponent a massive advantage.

The people making negative comments about what Borroughs said are probably general PSU fans who know little about wrestling.

CFJJP - It appears that I did not articulate my post that you quoted well enough.

MY ORIGINAL INTERPRETATION OF BURROUGHS COMMENT WAS WRONG!

Does that help ?

 

[Cstroke]

 

[hlstone]

Carter's fans??? Really? Big fan of Carter and I find nothing wrong with what Borroughs said. Carter has less mobility on that leg, so of course you're going to attack that leg. How precisely do you get a TD without attacking one of the legs? Just because you're attacking a leg to try to get a TD and score, does not mean you're trying to re-injure the leg. To suggest that an opponent should consider an injured leg "off limits" for attacking is so absurd, it isn't even funny - that would be giving you're opponent a massive advantage.

The people making negative comments about what Borroughs said are probably general PSU fans who know little about wrestling.

I would attack the healthy leg. Leaving the weaker leg to defend.

 

[tullfan68]

Brooks with Most Dominant Wrestler award

iowa fans thought he would win biggest staller!LOL

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I have read much of the commentary on Mitch’s match. My thought was that he knew exactly what was going on. He felt like he could not ride Carr long enough to melt off the RT. He also felt that he had the momentum and could get another TD. The problem was that he left the match in the hands of the ref. No doubt, Carr should have been hit and the match would have gone to SV/OT. But, it did not play out that way, and you have to live with the results.

Couple things, I think Carr losses if hit with another stalling as it would have been a 2 pointer I believe (he could have easily been called as he backed straight out-of-bounds and sprawled at least twice to avoid being taken down).

In addition, I'm baffled how Carr wasn't hit with stalling in 1st after his 1st TD when he was on top of Messenbrink and Carr had gone OB while Messenbrink was still in-bounds. Messenbrink was fighting to get loose and move further inbounds - Carr was pulling him straight backwards from a position where he was fully OB - eventually, he literally pulled Messenbrink OB with him by his ankles. No stalling was called on Carr which is beyond ridiculous.

 

[tikk10]

I didn't hear Burroughs comments but I trust that Jefe's take is the right one and that people are going out of their way to be outraged. There's a large distance between deliberately attempting to reinjure and strategizing around an opponent's weakness. If a wrestler is well enough to get on the mat despite wearing a knee brace, it's nonsensical to pretend that they aren't wearing a knee brace and factor that into your approach. The wrestler with the knee brace knows the risks and doesn't expect to be coddled.

 

[Cstroke]

He made several comments the first IMO was tongue in cheek And sort of funny. The 2nd comment he said he would go for his leg if they wrestled at the trials.( to be honest everyone would they just wouldn’t say it.
i wasn’t outraged at all by it.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I would attack the healthy leg. Leaving the weaker leg to defend.

If you're circling and looking for angles, reaction time on bad leg is going to be slower due to many factors including lessened mobility due to heavy wrap. You might go for a "counter-shot" where you begin shot toward good leg only to move shoulders and hips back toward bad leg which would be "left behind" in terms of reaction time. But you are still likely to attack the bad leg which is going to have lessened reaction time.

 

[AgSurfer]

If you're circling and looking for angles, reaction time on bad leg is going to be slower due to many factors including lessened mobility due to heavy wrap. You might go for a "counter-shot" where you begin shot toward good leg only to move shoulders and hips back toward bad leg which would be "left behind" in terms of reaction time. But you are still likely to attack the bad leg which is going to have lessened reaction time.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

I was listening to both Byers and the TV... but I heard it and thought he was joking, trying to be funny....

Burroughs wasn't trying to be humorous. Conversely, I don't think he meant he would intentionally try to injure Starocci's knee. Rather, the knee is now a known weak point that opponents can try to exploit. Not to injure, but to put Starocci in disadvantageous positions, due to perhaps favoring the knee.

It was a poorly worded comment by Burroughs, particularly the "I'll be coming after that knee" part. Something like "Starocci's opponents will try to take advantage of his limitations due to the knee injury" would have been a lot smoother.

But the completely incensed reaction of some to Burrough's comment is way over the top IMO.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

JB would be fine as a HC. He will be able to recruit. The key would be the resources available to his program. Anybody who has coached has said things that you realize could have been worded better.

JB’s problem on the broadcast was that he should be the color guy with a play-by-play broadcaster to keep him focused. The broadcast lacked professionals and was really a few guys watching wrestling together and bullshitting about it over a few beers. Hence lots of dumb comments.

Hire a guy to coach college who despises folkstyle wrestling.. sounds like a plan

 

[nerfstate]

Burroughs wasn't trying to be humorous. Conversely, I don't think he meant he would intentionally try to injure Starocci's knee. Rather, the knee is now a known weak point that opponents can try to exploit. Not to injure, but to put Starocci in disadvantageous positions, due to perhaps favoring the knee.

It was a poorly worded comment by Burroughs, particularly the "I'll be coming after that knee" part. Something like "Starocci's opponents will try to take advantage of his limitations due to the knee injury" would have been a lot smoother.

But the completely incensed reaction of some to Burrough's comment is way over the top IMO.

Bo’s tweets certainly fanned the flames. At any rate none of this is anything I will remember about last night in about a week….

 

[nerfstate]

 

[PAgeologist]

Burroughs wasn't trying to be humorous. Conversely, I don't think he meant he would intentionally try to injure Starocci's knee. Rather, the knee is now a known weak point that opponents can try to exploit. Not to injure, but to put Starocci in disadvantageous positions, due to perhaps favoring the knee.

It was a poorly worded comment by Burroughs, particularly the "I'll be coming after that knee" part. Something like "Starocci's opponents will try to take advantage of his limitations due to the knee injury" would have been a lot smoother.

But the completely incensed reaction of some to Burrough's comment is way over the top IMO.

His comments about Carters knee were about the least offensive thing about last night's broadcast. If you weren't actually watching the match, you would have no idea one was actually happening. Burroughs and Cormier were beyond awful. That was shitty livestream podcast level commentary. That was "illegal fist to the back" and "going for the gusto" level bad.

I should have turned it off and put Byers on.

Sparks and Amine would have been way better. Those 2 should be pissed they got passed over for those 2 clowns.

Hell I'd even take "nose over toes" and "bringing your hips to the party" from Gibbons and Johnson. At least you would know there was a match happening.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

4 timer on one leg!! CARTER!

Once with one hand
Once with one leg
Excuses are for Spencer Lee

 

[Agoodnap]

The prophecy of “8 scoring wrestlers” has manifested. Gunsy was in the Hot Tub Time Machine, should have asked for crypto advice when we had the chance 😃

We actually had 10 scoring wrestlers. Davis and Nagao contributed 3.5 points so without them the record would not have been broken.

EDIT: I forgot about Nagao's tech so the combination contributed 5 points.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Carter is all timer no doubt about it. He would have bonused his way to victory if healthy. Angel just doing Angel things. Carter was in no danger of losing though.

He still #2 goat in my mind
4 titles
TWO loses

 

[tullfan68]

He still #2 goat in my mind
4 titles
TWO loses

LOL if they didn't counts Nolf's losses how can they count Carters?trash it like guys in the NFL breaking old records by playin 6 more games.what a joke!

 

[baccafarmer]

Once with one hand
Once with one leg
Excuses are for Spencer Lee

Ain’t that the truth! The dictionary needs a picture of Carter as the definition of WARRIOR! I can just imagine the “lore” that will grow around the story of Carter. Winning it all with a broken hand one year and a torn knee ligament in 24’. Every wrestler who come to the Nationals with an injured knee will be compared to Carter. Ten years from now, he will be considered one of the top 2 or 3 four-timers, because of his tenacity.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

You really think our coaches weren't trying to let him know the situation?

His dad was matside as well.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

He won 7 in a row at nationals, 5 by bonus, including dubs over the 1, 3 and 5 seeds. Up a weight class. As a true freshman. Forced into the lineup after the starter got hurt.

I’m not counting him out of anything.

When he lost in first round I said to my crew, he's gonna make the Nick Lee freshman run..... I was close.

 

[1AA]

Still feels amazing today
What this team is doing is historic in the sport of wrestling and becoming so in sports in general. Witnessing something very special.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

So…do Levi and Mitchell switch weights?

Did it appear to you that Levi had issues with 3 day weigh ins? He looked better then ever IYAM. That bracket he WRECKED was LOADED.

Leave 'em right where they are.

 

[El-Jefe]

Did it appear to you that Levi had issues with 3 day weigh ins? He looked better then ever IYAM. That bracket he WRECKED was LOADED.

Leave 'em right where they are.

The offseason hasn't arrived until the board ponders changing guys' weights for no reason other than boredom. Perhaps it's more fun to potentially downgrade multiple weights for the sake of change.

Someday this might be necessary. But until that day comes, no. And it didn't appear imminent this year.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I would attack the healthy leg. Leaving the weaker leg to defend.

Exactly, attack the good leg cuz he cant stand on/use the bad one for much.
I always told kids that.

 

[Franklinstheman]

You live by the sword you die by the sword. It was that close.

View embedded media

Always loved that show.l lol

 

[AgSurfer]

We actually had 10 scoring wrestlers. Davis and Nagao contributed 3.5 points so without them the record would not have been broken.

EDIT: I forgot about Nagao's tech so the combination contributed 5 points.

Excellent point! It was definitely a team effort.

 

[Ian]

You can't make me believe that Mesenbrink doesn't have a reasonably high wrestling IQ and the commensurate "mat sense", but you've got a true freshman who's wrestling a former national champion on the biggest stage he's ever imagined. I think he was just excited and lost sense of what the reality was because of adrenaline, the crowd, the noise, the excitement, etc.. It happens. Someone else mentioned that briefly the matside score did say Mesenbrink 8 Carr 7 and that may have been the last time he looked and that he thought he actually WAS leading by 1 at the end of regulation. Whatever.

I actually feel worse for Beau Bartlett today because Beau's a senior (with a year of eligibility remaining) and because he wrestled a FABULOUS tactical match and wrestled better than Mendez (whereas I'm not sure that I'd claim the same for Mesenbrink). Doesn't matter now, the match is over and Mitchell (the Missile) lost, but we get to watch him 3 more times and I'd actually be a little bit surprised if he doesn't become a 3-time champion.

Both will be so much better next year because they came so close… like Levi and Kerk this year!

 

[Ian]

Bo’s tweets certainly fanned the flames. At any rate none of this is anything I will remember about last night in about a week….

Don’t mess with the family was Bo’s message!

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

You might be right but I think it was pretty bad taste for him to say that on a public broadcast. Besides, if that is going to be his strategy, I don’t think it was wise to let Carter and the PSU coaches know abou

Carter's fans??? Really? Big fan of Carter and I find nothing wrong with what Borroughs said. Carter has less mobility on that leg, so of course you're going to attack that leg. How precisely do you get a TD without attacking one of the legs? Just because you're attacking a leg to try to get a TD and score, does not mean you're trying to re-injure the leg. To suggest that an opponent should consider an injured leg "off limits" for attacking is so absurd, it isn't even funny - that would be giving you're opponent a massive advantage.

The people making negative comments about what Borroughs said are probably general PSU fans who know little about wrestling.

Would that include Bo Nickal?

 

[El-Jefe]

Final brackets:

Penn State wins the 2024 DI men's NCAA wrestling championship

Full results from the 2024 Division I men's wrestling NCAA tournament in which Penn State won the title.

www.ncaa.com

 

[NittanyLion84]

Article on Carter and Brooks.

Penn State's Carter Starocci, Aaron Brooks become 4-time NCAA wrestling champs

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — The only thing slowing down Carter Starocci’s pursuit of wrestling glory was an ailing knee and some blood on his opponent’s face, and he left Aaron Brooks no choice but to follow his Penn State teammate into the history books. Starocci won his fourth NCAA title

triblive.com

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

I’ve read your additional edits and I think you’re right. We’re reading something into Burroughs statement that he really didn’t say. However, I think we both agree that he should have exercised some discretion about the topic. There are probably a lot of Carter fans who don’t post here that are reading a malicious intent into what Burroughs said.

Language is a complicated thing. Consider the statement "Charlie stole a car"". On paper, it's a simple assertion of fact.

However, once can state it with a rising intonation and make it a rejoinder of complete incredulity. By stressing "Charlie", it's a statement of doubt about the actor. By stressing "stole", it is a statement of doubt about the action. By stressing "car" it's a statement of doubt about the object of the action.

And then there's who saying something, how they are appear and the context and at the time.

Burroughs "comes off" as saying exactly what's on his mind and if that was confined to his knowledge and experience about wrestling, it would be a huge benefit to viewers. But that's not.

As sort of clumsy and undisciplined as Cormier is, Burroughs is worse. He got worse after Lovett lost, continuing the Nebraska NC drought. Carter and Aaron accomplished something he couldn't (4X).

Example.

Cormier makes a statement about barbeque; Burroughs says "never", Cormier says "really?" and Burroughs snaps back at Cormier about his "Dad bod". Why the personal attack?

Because he was aggressive and unfiltered; his statement come off as aggressive to the point of bellicose.

And now, just for Wild Turk; a moment of public contrition.

Lord forgive me; I was impatient with the lack technical knowledge of the student announcers (Adriana and "Going for the Gusto"); I realize now that at least they were trying and they weren't nasty and self indulgent.

Still the best revenge is living well. I hope Carter gets to wrestle him on two good wheels and pins his ass.