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tOSU/Strauss thread gone here, too?

This take is highly misleading. While it's technically accurate that Daily didn't approach Jordan, it's misleading to suggest that Daily's only claiming that Jordan "had to have known."

The relevant question isn't who approached Jordan, the relevant question is Jordan's knowledge at the time.

Daily: “I participated with Jimmy [Jordan] and the other wrestlers in locker-room talk about Strauss,” Dailey told NBC. “We all did. It was very common knowledge in the locker room that if you went to Dr. Strauss for anything, you would have to pull your pants down.”

It's also not very helpful to conclude negatives from public statements when many of the people in question have been interviewed by investigators and obviously responded to more pointed questions there. Wait and see.
 
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Reminder: "wait and see" works both ways.
Identifying facially dishonest spin requires no waiting period, just as identifying the conclusions by so many that DiSabato's past disposed of the question of Jordan's knowledge as premature was also timely.
 
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Identifying facially dishonest spin requires no waiting period, just as identifying the conclusions by so many that DiSabato's past disposed of the question of Jordan's knowledge as premature was also timely.
If Daily didn't personally tell Jordan unambiguously, or didn't witness Jordan being told unambiguously, then he's speculating. He could still be right, but only indirectly.

And "unambiguously" is pretty important. "Locker room talk" sometimes is true, sometimes is urban legend.

Such as, for example: go to Ritenour with a broken finger, leave with mono. That one got told a lot.
 
In reading more about this, I noticed the current Provost at tOSU was a Dean at PSU during the JS scandal. I'm sure his experience, and lessons learned, are helping tOSU through this.
 
Well the story was just all over the NBC Nightly News, so it does have legs for now. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
Thanks for linking the Politico piece @diggerpup. To think our scandal cost the University upwards of $1/2 billion and reputation. I assume OSU and O-hi-O will handle the fallout better than PSU.
 
Man, TheMat wacko (and regrettably a Penn State fan) TBar loves him some Jim Jordan and is swallowing the talking points without a chaser.

As Lemonpie quite eloquently (and succinctly) put it, TBar is the worst.
I seem to see that with several people. Goes to show that politics trumps (no pun intended) facts and the ability to reason.
 
Considering that Ed Ray savaged PSU during the Sandusky scandal, would be quite interesting what he knew about Strauss and when.
Applying the Ed Ray Standard, we don't have to ask what and when he knew.
 
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Man, TheMat wacko (and regrettably a Penn State fan) TBar loves him some Jim Jordan and is swallowing the talking points without a chaser.

As Lemonpie quite eloquently (and succinctly) put it, TBar is the worst.
JJ is now the beneficiary of all the practice that dude has been doing to all things PSU wrestling over the last few years. At this point he has no gag reflex.
 
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JJ is now the beneficiary of all the practice that dude has been doing to all things PSU wrestling over the last few years. At this point he has no gag reflex.
Hahaha. Even Jenna Jameson is envious of his skills.

We’ve yet to out him here. No one comes close to his posting style I don’t think. His posts engender more ill will for our fan base than 10 talented trolls put together.
 
I predict there will be double digits against Jim before long.

tenor.gif
 
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Also, not directed just at you but to those that believe Jordan is being called out by former wrestlers and at least one coach because of politics- not a single one that is on the record is blaming him or claiming he should have done more. They are calling him out because he denied knowledge of anything going on. If any other coaches that they thought knew what was going on denied knowledge of this I'm guessing they would be called out too.
I'm calling BS on this.

It might be true on paper, and they might even think it's true. But it's impossible. If either he admitted or were proven to knew more, then the punch-in-the-face-obvious next question is: What did he do about it? And that question will never be answered to the public's satisfaction.

That doesn't mean they should've kept quiet or are politically motivated. Only that their statements have obvious downstream effects.
 
Ok, time to get real.

Of course Jim Jordan, Hellickson, etc. knew about this doctor. Back in the day everybody knew about the creeps. But creeps like this were more of a running joke in the locker room vs. something to report to authorities. You just knew to avoid them at all cost. Coaches knew to talk to them about backing off. End of story (back then).

Not saying at all this was right but just how things were handled decades ago. I personally find this witch hunt distasteful. The good doctor should be strung up by his balls (of course I know he's dead) but trying to damage the reputations of coaches just doesn't make sense.
 
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As evidence of Jordan's knowledge at the time, statements by wrestlers who claim to not have seen what other wrestlers claim to have seen doesn't move Jordan's defense along very far because it's not reasonable to think that everyone was always in the same room. And a number of wrestlers now put Jordan in the same room while Strauss's misconduct was being discussed.

Hellickson's statement in support of Jordan doesn't move the needle for me at all since Hellickson is situated identically to Jordan in terms of potential personal liability. If he claimed otherwise, he'd be conceding his own potential liability. That doesn't at all mean Hellickson is lying, just that his motivation to deny is the same as Jordan's and thus there are limits to how persuasive such a statement in support can be. Everything to do with how evidence is considered and not anything personal about Hellickson.

I think something that's being lost in this discussion is the context by which we're learning all this. Despite that the headlines focus on Jordan (and they would for any high-profile politician), Jordan is on the far periphery of the investigation itself. Ohio State undertook an investigation to determine its own liability with respect to Strauss's misconduct, which appears to acknowledged by everyone, rather than wait around for the inevitable class-action lawsuit.

And Good on Ohio State for that. But the decision to conduct the investigation has nothing to do with Jordan. He's not being targeted by Ohio State even if the headlines are focusing on him. In the context of that investigation, the Ohio State coaches' decision-making is rightly open to second-guessing being that Strauss's misconduct, by many accounts, was widely-known. People are naturally being interviewed about it and accordingly the question about what Jordan knew and when was due to arise.

And in that context, it's extremely difficult to plausibly suggest, as Jordan and his defenders repeatedly have (“Look, the timing makes you wonder,” Jordan said), that this is all a politically motivated hit job on Jordan. Further undermining that notion, some of the wrestlers who put Jordan in the room while Strauss was being discussed share Jordan's politics can consider him a friend. Jordan's blanket denial and insinuation that it's politically motivated just doesn't jibe.

So based on those statements and their presumed credibility (I'm putting DiSabato's statements on the back burner for the sake of argument, given that if you buy DiSabato's claim, Jordan was told at the time) I'm inclined to believe that Jordan knew that Strauss was a problem, though it's difficult to say precisely how, and I think that ambiguity is probably adequate to serve as legal defense should one be needed (and presuming no further corroboration). I think given the era this occurred there wasn't the same inclination to report misconduct, a greater willingness to defer to medical authority (see MSU and Larry Nassar), and a greater willingness to imagine that your co-workers were only ever acting in good faith.

I've worked on child molestation cases involving the Catholic church and have seen plenty of good people look the other way and I'm even sympathetic to why that happens. I don't see it in black and white, I see a grey morass of institutional pressures, exploited loopholes, human nature, and human weakness. What I see here is a strong likelihood that Jordan isn't coming clean, which I'm more inclined to believe due to his taking the position that this is all about him and politically motivated despite the absence of such evidence.

Even assuming Jordan didn't know anything, if you credit the various wrestlers' accounts of Strauss's behavior, there's a pretty good argument that Jordan should have known, given his proximity to the situation, Strauss's position, and Strauss's frequent and overlong showering with the athletes.

There are financial incentives to claim victimhood given that the likely end to this is a settlement offer from Ohio State. But I think that's outweighed by the known disincentives to challenging power and admitting to being sexually abused, though that stigma is ebbing somewhat.
 
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Ok, time to get real.

Of course Jim Jordan, Hellickson, etc. knew about this doctor. Back in the day everybody knew about the creeps. But creeps like this were more of a running joke in the locker room vs. something to report to authorities. You just knew to avoid them at all cost. Coaches knew to talk to them about backing off. End of story (back then).

Not saying at all this was right but just how things were handled decades ago. I personally find this witch hunt distasteful. The good doctor should be strung up by his balls (of course I know he's dead) but trying to damage the reputations of coaches just doesn't make sense.
First of all, Tikk, stop making sense.

Second why is it distasteful to think that someone who could not report sexual abuse if not qualified to be a national political leader? Or even a township supervisor? Or 7th grade class treasurer?

To me this is pure lack of leadership, lack of courage and not the quality of person that should be in any leadership position anywhere.
 
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I guess the only thing which is fact based is that if Jordan wasn't in the running for speaker of the house there wouldn't be a payday for anyone.
 
The fact that he has gotten this far politically (assuming he knew and didn’t act) is a problem this country and the world needs to fix. The “payday” should have happened years ago.

Exactly my point, If one follows the case it probably was hatched shortly after someone told someone Jordan was a asst. coach at Ohio State during the Strauss years. ka ching
 
Exactly my point, If one follows the case it probably was hatched shortly after someone told someone Jordan was a asst. coach at Ohio State during the Strauss years. ka ching

Point understood. Better late than never to find these people, tho. The fact that Hasturd got to where he is, and his crimes are actual participatory crimes not moral/ethical failures, shows how far we have to go to stand up for what is right.

In the end we all need to be held to the same standard. Rich or poor. Red or blue. Any race. Any religion (or lack of religion). None of those things make anyone any better or worse than others.
 
Exactly my point, If one follows the case it probably was hatched shortly after someone told someone Jordan was a asst. coach at Ohio State during the Strauss years. ka ching
I have serious doubts as to your alleged conspiracy. First, there's no evidence whatsoever of what you're suggesting. Second, the investigation was opened by tOSU in April and Jordan wasn't the focus. The allegations against Strauss appear to be well-founded. It's not even clear that the original claimants who came forward even named Jordan.

Third, Ohio State's liability doesn't turn on whether Jordan in particular knew so long as some Ohio State officials knew, which was already alleged by others. The eventual settlement price won't increase or decrease because of media stories connecting it to Jordan. The questions relating to Jordan's knowledge are relevant for a variety of reasons but still fairly peripheral to the investigation.

The impetus for the investigation appears to be the victims of Strauss's various actionable torts and/or crimes being made aware of the potential for restitution because of the Larry Nassar trial.
 
As an unbiased data point, here is an article from tOSU campus newspaper stating tOSU hiring a law firm to investigate the doctor.

1. Article is April 2018:

2. Article also states tOSU held a hearing to investigate Strauss in 1997.

1997 ....

https://www.thelantern.com/2018/04/...-twice-by-former-team-doctor-richard-strauss/


“The athlete, who wished to remain anonymous, said in the spring of 1997 he was approached by his coach to testify in a hearing against Strauss. He said he didn’t because he was embarrassed, but said he knew of at least three people — including an athlete from the ‘70s — who attended a hearing. At some point after the hearing was supposed to occur, Strauss left the university, the athlete said.”
 
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I wonder if Jordan would have been so much better off to just say, “yep, I remember that and I thought it was dealt with accordingly back then”.
Him suggesting that he was oblivious to it is hard to believe. I don’t think the public will buy it.
It’s rarely the event/what occurred and almost always the coverup that gets politicians into trouble.
 
I have difficulty believing a college aged male athlete would allow a team doctor to play with their Willy for 10-15 minutes......unless it was consensual. Athletes have done the cough thing since jr high so they know the routine.
 
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