There are only two people that count, the AD and the President, with the AD doing most of the heavy lifting. From what I've heard, PSU has been woefully inadequate at flexing over the years and it hasn't gotten any better with the current regime.
There are two "Darlings" in College Football , Alabama & Ohio State
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There are only two people that count, the AD and the President, with the AD doing most of the heavy lifting. From what I've heard, PSU has been woefully inadequate at flexing over the years and it hasn't gotten any better with the current regime.
It's clear the committee will use the eye test as their primary judge of teams. How can anyone not think Clemson is a darling? Teams that clearly have a lot of talent get major passes, more than they should. Effing lost to Syracuse??
Notre Lame was and still is being treated way too well.
Notre Lame was and still is being treated way too well.
Ohio State could be 2-8 right and they’d still pass “The Eye Test”. And morons would still be talking about their path to playoffs.
Option Bob "What corks my wine is that Penn State has to beat everybody to get in ... well, except when even that doesn't work (1968, 69, 73, 94)."
I will just speak to 1968 when OSU was ranked no. 1 During that year it beat Purdue (No. 1 at the time), USC (No. 2 at the time) and Michigan (No. 4 at the time.) Penn State has zero gripes about 68 but it is repeatedly brought up on this board.
I will just speak to 1968 when OSU was ranked no. 1 During that year it beat Purdue (No. 1 at the time), USC (No. 2 at the time) and Michigan (No. 4 at the time.) Penn State has zero gripes about 68 but it is repeatedly brought up on this board.
You would be right if it was just one year but starts to become a pattern when it happens over and over and over again.
My father in law took several trips to PSU at Alabama games and said of all the away games he went to, the nicest and most hospitable people he met were the Alabama fans. He had nothing but good things to say about them. On the other side, he said the worst were West Virginia.
If Alabama and Ohio State are media "darlings" it is due to the fact that they win and win consistently. They've earned it.
I'd put Clemson up there as well.
I distinctly remember media "darling" status when Penn State joined the conference due to JoePa's run during the 80s. So much so that more than once PSU fans notified Big10ers that Penn State would be running the conference. The Big10 taught the nitts that it would not be so.
Go Blue!
I'd put Clemson up there as well.
I distinctly remember media "darling" status when Penn State joined the conference due to JoePa's run during the 80s. So much so that more than once PSU fans notified Big10ers that Penn State would be running the conference. The Big10 taught the nitts that it would not be so.
Go Blue!
I was thinking the same thing...losses to Pitt (last year) and Syracuse (this year) and their ranking was essentially unaffected.
I distinctly remember media "darling" status when Penn State joined the conference due to JoePa's run during the 80s. So much so that more than once PSU fans notified Big10ers that Penn State would be running the conference. The Big10 taught the nitts that it would not be so.
Go Blue![/QUOTE]
Another myth perpetuated by the insecure, irrelevant, arrogant fanbase in Ann Arbor. Other than isolated Penn State fans somewhere and the idiot Bob Griese, there was absolutely NO groundswell of opinion that Penn State would "come in and dominate the conference." Penn State was a clear national power when it was invited into this corrupt league in 1989, and your boy Bo, perhaps the most overrated coach in all of sports ... ever, rightly saw his perch as #2 behind the Buckeyes endangered by the new team from the East. Hence, the requirement that Penn State wait for 3 years (initially it was 5
) until 1993 to start league play.
So what did your precious Big Ten "teach" Penn State?
1. That the whole conference is alive to serve Michigan and Ohio State
2. That Professors Honig, Lemonier, and Witvoet would revolutionize the role of officiating in league games
3. That Penn State would not be treated as an equal the way the ACC treated FSU or the SEC treated Arkansas
4. That midwest regional support for Penn State would be non-existent
5. That through scheduling, media, and administrative authority, Penn State would find itself living in the Iowa and Michigan State neighborhood rather than in the penthouse reserved for UM and OSU
6. That no matter how great a coach one might be, if he were not coaching in Ann Arbor or Columbus, he would never get a fair shake (here you can also refer to Nick Saban, who had to leave for the universally acknowledged power conference of the SEC to win multiple national titles)
7. And that the most arrogant group of fans anywhere on the planet wore the urine and blue of Michigan ... a program so powerful that it managed ONE SINGLE undefeated, untied season from World War II through 2017. One. Penn State had 2 from 1968-69 alone ... then added 3 more. It would have been another in 2005, but your boy Dave solved that one.
I understand Buckeye fans who feel a bit superior, and I even respect Ohio State as a program that has continued to be a powerhouse and national player for decades. But you Michigan people are a joke. Your god Bo couldn't win a Bowl game, even against BYU! He lost to BYU and cried about it for months. BYU?
Your team has been overrated and irrelevant since the end of WWII. Why don't you just go over to the Pitt board and whine about Penn State with the Panther fans?
Go Blue![/QUOTE]
Another myth perpetuated by the insecure, irrelevant, arrogant fanbase in Ann Arbor. Other than isolated Penn State fans somewhere and the idiot Bob Griese, there was absolutely NO groundswell of opinion that Penn State would "come in and dominate the conference." Penn State was a clear national power when it was invited into this corrupt league in 1989, and your boy Bo, perhaps the most overrated coach in all of sports ... ever, rightly saw his perch as #2 behind the Buckeyes endangered by the new team from the East. Hence, the requirement that Penn State wait for 3 years (initially it was 5
) until 1993 to start league play. So what did your precious Big Ten "teach" Penn State?
1. That the whole conference is alive to serve Michigan and Ohio State
2. That Professors Honig, Lemonier, and Witvoet would revolutionize the role of officiating in league games
3. That Penn State would not be treated as an equal the way the ACC treated FSU or the SEC treated Arkansas
4. That midwest regional support for Penn State would be non-existent
5. That through scheduling, media, and administrative authority, Penn State would find itself living in the Iowa and Michigan State neighborhood rather than in the penthouse reserved for UM and OSU
6. That no matter how great a coach one might be, if he were not coaching in Ann Arbor or Columbus, he would never get a fair shake (here you can also refer to Nick Saban, who had to leave for the universally acknowledged power conference of the SEC to win multiple national titles)
7. And that the most arrogant group of fans anywhere on the planet wore the urine and blue of Michigan ... a program so powerful that it managed ONE SINGLE undefeated, untied season from World War II through 2017. One. Penn State had 2 from 1968-69 alone ... then added 3 more. It would have been another in 2005, but your boy Dave solved that one.
I understand Buckeye fans who feel a bit superior, and I even respect Ohio State as a program that has continued to be a powerhouse and national player for decades. But you Michigan people are a joke. Your god Bo couldn't win a Bowl game, even against BYU! He lost to BYU and cried about it for months. BYU?
Your team has been overrated and irrelevant since the end of WWII. Why don't you just go over to the Pitt board and whine about Penn State with the Panther fans?
Sorry — New here — but what did Penn State fans think of the officiating in the OSU/PSU game? Was the consensus that OSU got good calls?
I dare not speak for the "consensus," but I thought the officiating was actually good. I no longer understand what in the world constitutes pass interference anymore, since I see nearly constant tugging and pulling and holding between all WRs/DBs. But I saw no bizarre, odd, never-ever-seen-before calls such as I have seen in past games.
your boy Bo, perhaps the most overrated coach in all of sports ... ever, rightly saw his perch as #2 behind the Buckeyes endangered by the new team from the East.
Bo was 11-9-1 vs Ohio State in his career.
So what did your precious Big Ten "teach" Penn State?
1. That the whole conference is alive to serve Michigan and Ohio State
:::rolling eyes::: Yeah its in the Conference Bylaws. Sparty fetches water, Goophers rub feet, Badgers carry equipment... You sound like a dope. Conspire much?
2. That Professors Honig, Lemonier, and Witvoet would revolutionize the role of officiating in league games
cry baby.
3. That Penn State would not be treated as an equal the way the ACC treated FSU or the SEC treated Arkansas.
Penn State gets an equal share of revenue I'm pretty sure. Their games are all over the BTN. Their logos are on the Big10 website. Looks pretty equal to me.
4. That midwest regional support for Penn State would be non-existent
It was non-existent before Penn State joined the league as well. It had nothing to do with Michigan.
5. That through scheduling, media, and administrative authority, Penn State would find itself living in the Iowa and Michigan State neighborhood rather than in the penthouse reserved for UM and OSU
I think Penn States performance since joining the league has determined that. If Penn State is living with Iowa and Michigan State its not Michigans doing.
6. That no matter how great a coach one might be, if he were not coaching in Ann Arbor or Columbus, he would never get a fair shake (here you can also refer to Nick Saban, who had to leave for the universally acknowledged power conference of the SEC to win multiple national titles)
Nick Saban whined...much like you are whining...that he was always second fiddle in Michigan when it came to recruiting and always would be so he took off to greener pastures.
7. And that the most arrogant group of fans anywhere on the planet wore the urine and blue of Michigan ... a program so powerful that it managed ONE SINGLE undefeated, untied season from World War II through 2017. One. Penn State had 2 from 1968-69 alone ... then added 3 more. It would have been another in 2005, but your boy Dave solved that one.
Maybe the Penn State defenders should have stopped Manningham from scoring...just sayin'. I watched the game they were on the field.
1947 10-0
1948 9-0
1997 12-0
Since WWII ended in 1945 that means that Michigan has three undefeated, untied seasons you silly boob, THREE. You didn't even bother to investigate before running your mouth.
Your god Bo couldn't win a Bowl game, even against BYU!
That would be undefeated untied National Champion BYU that eeked out a 24-17 win over a 6-5 Michigan squad.
Your team has been overrated and irrelevant since the end of WWII.
Then that .380 all time winning percentage Penn State has managed vs the Wolverines must be a bitter pill to swallow indeed.
Go Blue!
Bo was 11-9-1 vs Ohio State in his career.
So what did your precious Big Ten "teach" Penn State?
1. That the whole conference is alive to serve Michigan and Ohio State
:::rolling eyes::: Yeah its in the Conference Bylaws. Sparty fetches water, Goophers rub feet, Badgers carry equipment... You sound like a dope. Conspire much?
2. That Professors Honig, Lemonier, and Witvoet would revolutionize the role of officiating in league games
cry baby.
3. That Penn State would not be treated as an equal the way the ACC treated FSU or the SEC treated Arkansas.
Penn State gets an equal share of revenue I'm pretty sure. Their games are all over the BTN. Their logos are on the Big10 website. Looks pretty equal to me.
4. That midwest regional support for Penn State would be non-existent
It was non-existent before Penn State joined the league as well. It had nothing to do with Michigan.
5. That through scheduling, media, and administrative authority, Penn State would find itself living in the Iowa and Michigan State neighborhood rather than in the penthouse reserved for UM and OSU
I think Penn States performance since joining the league has determined that. If Penn State is living with Iowa and Michigan State its not Michigans doing.
6. That no matter how great a coach one might be, if he were not coaching in Ann Arbor or Columbus, he would never get a fair shake (here you can also refer to Nick Saban, who had to leave for the universally acknowledged power conference of the SEC to win multiple national titles)
Nick Saban whined...much like you are whining...that he was always second fiddle in Michigan when it came to recruiting and always would be so he took off to greener pastures.
7. And that the most arrogant group of fans anywhere on the planet wore the urine and blue of Michigan ... a program so powerful that it managed ONE SINGLE undefeated, untied season from World War II through 2017. One. Penn State had 2 from 1968-69 alone ... then added 3 more. It would have been another in 2005, but your boy Dave solved that one.
Maybe the Penn State defenders should have stopped Manningham from scoring...just sayin'. I watched the game they were on the field.
1947 10-0
1948 9-0
1997 12-0
Since WWII ended in 1945 that means that Michigan has three undefeated, untied seasons you silly boob, THREE. You didn't even bother to investigate before running your mouth.
Your god Bo couldn't win a Bowl game, even against BYU!
That would be undefeated untied National Champion BYU that eeked out a 24-17 win over a 6-5 Michigan squad.
Your team has been overrated and irrelevant since the end of WWII.
Then that .380 all time winning percentage Penn State has managed vs the Wolverines must be a bitter pill to swallow indeed.
Go Blue!
Cool. We, of course, thought officiating was awful until the fourth quarter, but we won the game so everyone will soon forget. Seems like we only remember the “bad calls” in games we lose. I’m actually pretty sure that if 200 more calls had gone our way in the Iowa game, it would have been pretty close. Our boards were sure of it.
OSU fans think we are getting screwed by the refs every game too. This year we have had 4 players ejected for targeting, only one of which was a play the rule was designed to prevent, and some think it’s a conspiracy against us (it’s not). Just to let you know we don’t really love the refs either — although we did get the “big call” against Michigan last year. I don’t really think they are biased though — they miss stuff for everybody.
OSU fans think we are getting screwed by the refs every game too. This year we have had 4 players ejected for targeting, only one of which was a play the rule was designed to prevent, and some think it’s a conspiracy against us (it’s not). Just to let you know we don’t really love the refs either — although we did get the “big call” against Michigan last year. I don’t really think they are biased though — they miss stuff for everybody.
I made clear that I was referring to 1968 only. When claiming you are being screwed, any poster should simply drop 1968 -- there is ZERO justification to claim that Penn State that year was shafted when Ohio State was named number one. OSU played a much harder schedule and beat very good teams, including the USC team with OJ Simpson.
Your comment caused me to look at 1969 and 1973 -- neither presents a good argument for Penn State.
The 1969 Texas team named number 1 beat the number 2 team, Arkansas. Also beat No. 8, Oklahoma and No. 9 Notre Dame. Penn State played two ranked teams -- no. 17 W. Va. and No. 6 Missouri. Not a very good argument here.
The 1973 No. 1 ranked team, Notre Dame, played and beat No. 20 Pitt, No. 6 USC, and No. 1 Alabama. PSU only played and beat No. 20 Pitt and No. 13 LSU. Not much of an argument here.
Of course, the situation was different in 1994 when you had a great team that beat a number of very good teams. Seems like there is only 1 year you can substantially argue that you were screwed.
OMG, you are right; I admit my error by stating "since WWII." I should have said that in the LAST 70 YEARS, Michigan has had all of ONE SINGLE undefeated, untied team.
Incredible how you defend such a pathetic record, clearly indicative of a nationally irrelevant program. Why, you're right up there with Pitt and BYU with that one, solitary unbeaten, untied team.
Oh, and since we're doing research now to get the facts, can you look up your hero's Bowl record? Surely, a coach as awesome as Bo Schembechler would have an amazing record in Bowl games. Joe Paterno's Bowl record was 24-12-1, including a win over superpower BYU.
Oh wait, I looked it up for you ... Bo's Bowl record was a sterling 5 wins ......... and 12 losses. Gosh, I guess Honig and crew weren't calling Michigan Bowl games.
Go boast and brag on a board of some program that has been as irrelvant as Michigan has been since 1948 ... if you can think of one.
Incredible how you defend such a pathetic record, clearly indicative of a nationally irrelevant program. Why, you're right up there with Pitt and BYU with that one, solitary unbeaten, untied team.
Oh, and since we're doing research now to get the facts, can you look up your hero's Bowl record? Surely, a coach as awesome as Bo Schembechler would have an amazing record in Bowl games. Joe Paterno's Bowl record was 24-12-1, including a win over superpower BYU.
Oh wait, I looked it up for you ... Bo's Bowl record was a sterling 5 wins ......... and 12 losses.
Gosh, I guess Honig and crew weren't calling Michigan Bowl games. Go boast and brag on a board of some program that has been as irrelvant as Michigan has been since 1948 ... if you can think of one.
LOL, yeah I'll just let that stand on its own.
Look at the big brain on Option Boob.
:::Yawn::: Suck it lightweight. .380.
Go Blue!
However, the undefeated 69 season came after the undefeated 68 season...so how many teams have had back to back undefeated seasons and not won a NC in either? Also, how many teams have had 4 undefeated seasons with only one NC out of the four? No team has been screwed as much as Penn State....that's a pretty obvious argument.
Your point are well made, and I really have no argument about whether Penn State would have actually won the national title against those teams in 68 or 73 (however, I do believe Penn State would have defeated Texas in 1969 and Nebraska in 1994). My point really is that Penn State was never given the opportunity to play for the title.
Had the situation been reversed in 1968-69 and it was Rex Kern & Co. going unbeaten both years but outvoted either to Texas or to Penn State, I would guess that Buckeye fans would have been a tad irate. Surely you admit that poll rankings are less than evidence of which team is the truly the best in the country. And strength of schedule is a tool made up by elves. No media vote truly reflects any strength of schedule. Would the 2014 OSU team have a shot at Alabama had it been up to the AP Poll?
My point is quite simple. Penn State had just as much a claim to be voted in my media as any other unbeaten, untied team in 1968, 69, 73, and 94. In earlier years, AP votes were taken before Bowl games, allowing the #1 team to lose its last game yet still claim a national title. I think Penn State's win over consensus #1 -- before the polls -- Miami team in 1986 proves that the championship should be determined on the field and not in the frivolous vote of media members.
You have forgotten about Toledo which had back to back undefeated seasons in 1969 and 1970. Miami of Ohio had undefeated seasons in 1955 and 1973. Also, San Diego State was undefeated in 1969. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_undefeated_NCAA_Division_I_football_teams -- If you are going to claim you were screwed notwithstanding the comparative weakness of your schedule, then Miami, Toledo and San Diego State have claims-- interestingly in 2 years you claim you were screwed, 1969 and 1973.
Essentially, you are claiming you could figuratively play the Little Sisters of the Poor and, being undefeated, have a legitimate claim to a championship. If that was the case then Toledo, San Diego State and Miami all have co-equal claims. Except for 1994, this argument should be given a rest.
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The situation can not be reversed. OSU in 68 clearly played the toughest schedule and had the best team. The AP poll is clearly not the best way to determine a champion, but virtually all people would agree that it worked for 1968. However, do want to make clear that I agree that polls are not the best way to determine champions. OSU was no. 4 in 2014, but beat the higher ranked teams.
Will add that if OSU beats Michigan and Wisconsin, they will have beat a good number of good teams. [Penn State and Michigan State, too] However, OSU wet its pants losing to Iowa and if another two-loss team gets in, I will have no objections -- OSU put itself in a bad spot by losing to Iowa. On the other hand, if OSU gets lucky and gets in, I will be happy with that.
Will say that I think this year's team is better than last year's team because this year's team can hit the deep ball. Last year's deep passing game in Barrett's own words was awful. Also, the offensive line and dbs have gotten better as the year has gone on.
Will say that I think this year's team is better than last year's team because this year's team can hit the deep ball. Last year's deep passing game in Barrett's own words was awful. Also, the offensive line and dbs have gotten better as the year has gone on.
Really? That's what you're going with? Do you want to dig up some division 1-AA teams from the 50's too?
You don't know what you are talking about. Here is Lou Holtz's[former assistant coach at OSU] comment after losing to Toledo in a bowl game: "Toledo can play football with anyone – that includes teams like Ohio State and Texas." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Toledo_Rockets_football_team
It is even worse for your argument than I thought. Toledo went 3 YEARS in a row without losing and finished as the 12th rated team in 1970 and the 14th rated team in 1971. Here is a summary from the 1970 Wiki article:
"The 1970 season was part of a 35-game winning streak that consisted of three consecutive seasons from 1969 through 1971. During the streak, Toledo won three consecutive MAC championships and three consecutive bowl games, led the nation in total defense all three years, and outscored opponents by a combined total of 1,152 to 344.[5] It remains the second longest winning streak in modern Division I-A college football history behind Oklahoma's 47-game streak in the 1950s"
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And Mount Union won 55 straight to break their own record of 54. That means about as much as a Toledo winning streak. The MAC was still the MAC even then....and Lou Holtz said that about every team he ever faced. I'm not sure why it's so hard for OSU fans to just admit PSU has been screwed more than any other team. It's not really even debatable, just look at the numbers. That doesn't make OSU any less good, so why argue? Until another major college program (a blue blood program at that) has four undefeated seasons without a NC, it's not even close.
Penn State played weaker schedules and had less impressive wins. That is why it was lower ranked. Your victimhood is misplaced except for 1994. The fact that you go Mt. Union to support your argument shows that you have none. You brought up back to back undefeated seasons. Toledo had a three-peat. If going by consecutive undefeated seasons, (the argument you raised, not me), Toledo (a highly rated team that cannot be remotely compared to Mt. Union) trumps your arguments concerning undefeated seasons.
If going by generally accepted (although somewhat subjective standards [reporters views AP -- Coaches views UPI] --pretty much all that was available) and not stringing undefeated seasons together, then PSU was not a victim pre-1994. I see no point in arguing this further with you. State whatever you want in reply.
It was the MAC....PSU played an NFL schedule compared to the MAC. That streak was so unimpressive they never even finished in the top 10, so they were never even considered. It's hard to be screwed if you weren't considered. Penn State on the other hand was ranked #2 both years, so their schedule was clearly better than Toledo's and good enough to be in the consideration.
And it has nothing to do with victimhood. It's a simple fact. Please give me one comparable team in all of college football who's been left out as much as Penn State. I'm not complaining about it, just stating a fact and trying to figure out why it's so hard for an OSU fan to just accept that it's true. Then you bring up Toledo, which proves you have no legitimate argument.
Hi AWS,
We are just arguing past each other now. You have your views and I have mine. Thanks a lot for the civil discussion. Best wishes to Penn State for the rest of the year.
I would add that you have a very classy coach. Franklin really impressed me when he ran after the players who refused to shake hands with the Michigan State players after the loss. Glad to have him in college football and the Big Ten.
We are just arguing past each other now. You have your views and I have mine. Thanks a lot for the civil discussion. Best wishes to Penn State for the rest of the year.
I would add that you have a very classy coach. Franklin really impressed me when he ran after the players who refused to shake hands with the Michigan State players after the loss. Glad to have him in college football and the Big Ten.
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