Robert Kraft charged with Soliciting Prostitution
- Thread starter Kmase21
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The confusion arises from the fact that the term "libertarian" has been hijacked by the right, such as the Tea Party, Koch brothers, Rand Paul, the Cato Institute and others as a screen for their economic agenda. A true capital L Libertarian also takes social stands for privacy, abortion rights and same-sex marriage and against the death penalty. Try to find that in the speeches of most so-called "conservative libertarians".
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We have a local girl who has gone missing in this HT.
trafficking
Can’t link from I Phone. Google Daily Mail Corinna Slusser
trafficking
Can’t link from I Phone. Google Daily Mail Corinna Slusser
C'mon DEM. You make a career out of being logical and posing arguments. When I wrote that "... we should be able to distinguish John's and prostitutes from traffickers..." I did not in any way equate John's and prostitutes beyond the fact that they are, and should be treated, very differently from traffickers.
Was I really that far off in my "diagnosis?" What made you go off on a tangent so quickly?
The purpose of government is to protect its citizens from being harmed by others. It isn't to police the world, redistribute wealth, or dictate morality. Maybe I'm not like most Libertarians, because I do believe that in some areas, such as fraud prevention, product safety, and environmental protection, a large amount of government regulation is required to prevent one from harming another.
I do believe we can legislate and prosecute enslavement and/or rape without getting into the issue of "payment for sex" (morality). Law Enforcement can surely bust those who run an illegal establishment without busting those who provide or frequent its services. In this case we do have HT, but that isn't always true, and it's no reason to generalize with morality laws because we assume that HT could be part of it.
I could’ve said “in this day and age” or “today”. Didn’t mean anything particular by it.
I think when you are a John in a human trafficking case at a strip mall hand job salon, you are not exactly like a slave owner. You're more like a guy who rents a slave from her owner and then degrades her.
**** Bob Kraft. It is not like he rented a slave to have her wash dishes and weed his flower garden. He rented an unwilling slave to do the one thing that, once she is known as "one of those" women, her reputation is unlikely to be salvageable.
I'm not a libertarian, but do embrace some of the causes. On a related note, I thought video taping in situations like this (i.e, changing rooms, massage spaces, etc was illegal). Perhaps it depends on which state it is.
Assume the police were smart enough to get a court's permission.
I don't want to defend Kraft's choice here, but how would he necessarily know that the women involved were there against their will?
At the end of the day how will he be able to show his face at football games next year? His going to be viewed as a desperate rich pervert who exploited young Asian girls in a massage parlor. Right now the legal battle is for that video to be kept out of the public eye.
LOL.......this is just a bump in the road to his party itinerary.....as evidenced by the Oscar party scene
Same way anyone suspects it. It can be possible in most any setting I suppose, but the more skeevy the setting, the younger the .women, the more likely it is. Btw, that needs to be precisely the risk HE takes.
Um, I guess the same way you prove anything. Evidence of his state of mind could include what he saw, heard, did, and even in some cases, what he should have known.
This puts it pretty well.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/22/r...-KDT67b8WKqrqY0aJZkZQveUKAxoUdZLn1Ljef80igey0
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/22/r...-KDT67b8WKqrqY0aJZkZQveUKAxoUdZLn1Ljef80igey0
True. Rich black men, middle class white guys, middle class black dudes have never had a happy ending. Thank god prostitution clientele is limited to the 1 percenters who are melanin challenged or it could really get out of hand.
Kraft: Secretly taping someone is ... wait, nevermind.
Because his money has money and he has an ego to match.
Besides, it's not like he's mingling with the Great Unwashed at games.
A Good Confession
‘Bless me Father, for I have sinned.
I have been with a loose girl.’
The priest asks, ‘Is that you, little Robby Kraft?’
‘Yes, Father, it is.’
‘And who was the girl you were with?’
‘I can’t tell you, Father, I don’t want to ruin her reputation.’
‘Well, Robby, I’m sure to find out her name sooner or later so you
may as well tell me now. Was it Tina Minetti?’
‘I cannot say.’
‘Was it Teresa Mazzarelli?’
‘I’ll never tell.’
‘Was it Nina Capelli?’
‘I’m sorry, but I cannot name her.’
‘Was it Cathy Piriano?’
‘My lips are sealed.’
‘Was it Rosa DiAngelo, then?’
‘Please, Father, I cannot tell you.’
The priest sighs in frustration. ‘You’re very tight lipped, and I admire that. But you’ve sinned and have to atone. You cannot be an altar boy now for 4 months. Now you go and behave yourself.’
Robby walks back to his pew, and his friend Franco slides over and
whispers, ‘What’d you get?’
‘Four months’ vacation and five good leads …
Just to clarify, at least in Kraft's case, there were no "young Asian girls" involved. The Sheriff has said there were no under age girls, and while know there is at least one woman whose age is not known, the three whose ages are known were 45, 46 and 59 years old. Let's not confuse the issue by adding another non-existent (and more serious) issue.
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I'm also kind of curious about this. So they got court permission to do video, but then how did they actually install it? Get the landlord's permission to enter after hours?
So if I'm to understand here ..... paying for sex is illegal because we don't want the John's to be forced into a fuzzy value-judgment. Is she old enough? Is the establishment "clean" looking enough? This is the motivation behind having the laws. It isn't about legislating morality. It's not possible to simply go after the Human Traffickers.
If they have a warrant, they don't need anyone's permission.
There is a long history all over the world of societies of all types treating Johns as though their criminal activity in support of Human Trafficking is embarrassing, but not really illegal. Meanwhile women are denounced as dangerous whores, even the ones who are not doing it willingly.
If you want to discourage and slow human trafficking, you have to take the money out of it. That money comes from Johns. I would support, if the facts showed it was so, a charge of accessory to human trafficking for Johns.
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Right, but if they knock on the door with a warrant during business hours, then the owners know that cameras have been installed and would shut down the illegal parts of their business (and possibly scatter any trafficked women) so as not to provide any evidence against themselves. That's clearly not what happened here. So did they take the warrant to the building owners who let them install cameras? I'm assuming the didn't break into the building....
More likely, the business was recording the sessions (potentially to blackmail clients if necessary) and the police confiscated the video as evidence via their search warrant.
Gee, I don't know, after procuring warrants, did the FBI ask Gotti & associates permission to enter their covert activities to plant “bugs”?
PSU,
I know you're honestly asking, but i like plaery2b's, post. How elese would the FBI have recoedings of meetings, I'm not refering to phone taps.
If you read the police documents, that is not the case. They (LE) installed their own cameras.
See page six:
https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/74/98/64c708b942ac9a24ed0e40f57db0/hua-pc.pdf
That is interesting...hadn’t read that report. I suppose it’s possible that they could’ve struck a plea deal with the owner in order to gather more evidence. Still, wouldn’t be surprised if some of the video was obtained via the search warrant.
Thoughts?
Carlo Gambino never even went to the movies! But Gambino was shrewd enough that he was never caught on tape talking about a crime. Neither was Chin Gigante. Neither was Anthony Spero.
John Gotti, in contrast, was recorded on tape committing crimes and acknowledging three murders. The FBI had a bug in the apartment above the Ravenite Social Club, and that's where Gotti admitted ordering the murder of porn king Robert DiBernardo, Louie Milito, and Louis DiBono. Bang! Three homicide counts in a rico conviction! Gotti's boastful lack of discretion is what ended his career. Old-schoolers like Gambino and Santo Trafficante were never convicted and died of natural causes as free men.
I really don't see the establishment having their own video cameras within the rooms; why would you record yourself committing crimes?
I'm sure the search warrant gave them people's names, although it isn't clear how they caught the people who paid in cash (really bad move doing illegal things with your credit card...morons).
I would imagine there are variations of surveillance warrants/procedures that pertain to any level of crime, mob or human trafficking. I understand most states have similar surveillance laws. Start the research, the you question (a good one) may be answered.
After whacking “Big Paul” Castellano and taking control of the Gambino Family in 1985 John Gotti set up headquarters at The Ravenite Social Club - located on the ground floor of a five story brick building at 227 Mulberry St. in Little Italy. Over the next seven years, the FBI’s New York Office (NYO) conducted an around the clock surveillance of the site: taking pictures of The Dapper Don in the street outside the club from a plant or “perch” across the street, bugging his phones and planting dozens of surveillance devices in the building owned by Gambino wiseguy Joseph “Joe The Cat” LaForte.
I don't want to hijack the thread into a different direction, but if anyone is wondering why I've become sensitive to government overreach, it has nothing to do with the sex industry. I have never participated in, nor condoned, prostitution.
This fight (and my Libertarian leanings) against government overreach have been fueled by a situation within our health care system. The government's War on Drugs has created ridiculous problems for those in need of all sorts of controlled medications, even those which are rather benign. The result has been a huge reduction (and/or elimination) of legitimate access, and inconvenience that creates both excessive (sometimes unsafe) travel while at the same time greatly restricting travel.
I could cite many examples of unacceptable impacts on both doctors and patients. These are "unintended consequences" of a government that doesn't fully assess impacts when it comes up with new rules, be it on sex, drugs, gambling, or any other difficult, complex issue. To be clear, I am for regulation in many areas, sometimes for increased regulation (especially in the banking/finance/investment industry), but we can't be stupid about it. If you think most doctors feel the rules are appropriate you would be wrong, at least in my sampling.
The government has overstepped here. It hasn't reduced the nation's drug problem, and it's raised cost within legitimate circles. But hey, everyone has the right to insurance. Problems solved.
Now, back to our regular programming on the sex industry.
This fight (and my Libertarian leanings) against government overreach have been fueled by a situation within our health care system. The government's War on Drugs has created ridiculous problems for those in need of all sorts of controlled medications, even those which are rather benign. The result has been a huge reduction (and/or elimination) of legitimate access, and inconvenience that creates both excessive (sometimes unsafe) travel while at the same time greatly restricting travel.
I could cite many examples of unacceptable impacts on both doctors and patients. These are "unintended consequences" of a government that doesn't fully assess impacts when it comes up with new rules, be it on sex, drugs, gambling, or any other difficult, complex issue. To be clear, I am for regulation in many areas, sometimes for increased regulation (especially in the banking/finance/investment industry), but we can't be stupid about it. If you think most doctors feel the rules are appropriate you would be wrong, at least in my sampling.
The government has overstepped here. It hasn't reduced the nation's drug problem, and it's raised cost within legitimate circles. But hey, everyone has the right to insurance. Problems solved.
Now, back to our regular programming on the sex industry.
