So you are saying that because the FBI (apparently?) broke into Gotti HQ in NYC to plant bugs that the Martin County Sheriff's office also broke into Orchid spa to install video cameras? You may be correct, but I don't think we know that for sure. That's what I was asking (do we know for sure how the Sheriff got inside to install the cameras with the shop owners knowing)....Gotti = mob; Orchid Spa = HT = Aisan mob
Robert Kraft charged with Soliciting Prostitution
- Thread starter Kmase21
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Does anyone really think Kraft and others were paying to "get a message " from 40 and 50+ year old women??
I do not doubt a bit of what you say, and to the extent it has caused you personal trouble I am sorry to hear it.
But I will say there was a long period of time when we ignored Purdue Pharma's dumping of oxycontin on our communities, then when we did enforce the law, it burned the legit pain patients badly, while the Oxy abusers just switched to heroin. Ignoring the explosion of opiate pain killer scripts is not exactly a war on drugs, bu8t it sure caused the problem you seem to be having now. That and pharmacists and docs who looked the other way as millions of hit of prescription opiates were deliver to towns of less than a thousand.
WV has a 1.6 million population. In about a 6 year period 700-800 million hits of opioids were delivered (legally) in the state. Over 400 pills per man woman and child. That was not the war on drugs that did that. That was unregulated American Industry.
Opiods are a huge problem. It is also a big problem when you actually need pain pills and can't get a pharmacy to fill a scrip because of enhanced regulations. When I broke my wrist, I had to drive myself to 4 or 5 different pharmacies until I found one who hadn't sold their allotment for the week (and they weren't permitted by law to call ahead for me to ask). That's not ideal.
Conversely, I had minor surgery after which I probably should have gotten 4 percosets and they gave me 30. That's a problem.
I'm surprised to hear that you think more criminal punishment is the way to handle this issue. If there is anything stronger than a drug users desire to get high is a person's desire to get off. Has there been a society in history that has been able to use the law to eliminate prostitution? The more punitive the law, the deeper and darker the sex trade. It seems to me that when a large black market exists for a product, it indicates that the laws of that society are not in sync with the people who make up that society.
Should a legal adult be able to offer sex to someone for money if that is what they choose to do?
If it was legal, would fewer people choose to engage in the black market illegal sex trade?
Would law enforcement have an easier time dealing with a smaller less lucrative illegal sex trade?
Would a prostitute be safer in the illegal or legal sex trade?
Would the customer be safer in the illegal or legal sex trade?
Is the current system of prohibition solving the problem?
No PSU, I'm just throwing out a few suggestions that happened in other cases. I don't know if there are different, permissible surveillance levels that can be enacted by local police vs FBI. Hell, possibly one or a few of disgruntled masseurs decided to help the LE.
I think I read (accuracy?) where they faked news of a bomb threat and while on the premise installed the cameras. The same article also said this operation took something like six months. As one who is often skeptical of police tactics, I gotta wonder why, if they knew there were trafficking, they would let it go on for that amount of time. In other words was their motive to protect the women, or was it more to see how many big names they could trap in the web and create publicity for themselves.
P.S. "Morality" aside, they ought to consider just legalizing this sort of thing. Seems it would cut drastically into trafficking and would it also be subject to regulation, not to mention more taxes.
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As an old guy, Kraft always went in for the Early Bird Special. In before 4 PM, out by 4:30. Saved some $ that way and could be home by 8 for bedtime.
First of all the legal sex trade is not in this discussion. IF it were lawful, with proper oversight, the HT problem would be obviated at least in sex trade HT.
But as a practical matter we are not going to have a legal sex trade in this country other than in a few areas. So punishing the wrongdoers who provide all the money, if they knew or should have known that it was HT trade, seems like it might provoke a decline in their willingness to risk it.
Thanks for sharing the bomb threat info. I hadn't read that, and that is exactly what I was looking for.
My guess is that they had to keep the investigation going long enough to gather enough evidence to make the charges stick and it was probably more about that than catching high profile targets (I'm frankly surprised that Kraft went to this establishment).
Vinny the Chin used his bathrobe, slippers, and incoherent mumbling to throw off the court system. Brilliant!
I did not read through all the posts, but let me query this....
1. What if Kraft was found soliciting prostitutes in Amsterdam, or the Bunny Ranch, or Costa Rica, or any other place where prostitution is legal? Would there still be a morals clause that he would be forced to abide by?
2. What if he was smoking weed at Café 420 in Amsterdam? (It exists). Same question with moral clauses.
1. What if Kraft was found soliciting prostitutes in Amsterdam, or the Bunny Ranch, or Costa Rica, or any other place where prostitution is legal? Would there still be a morals clause that he would be forced to abide by?
2. What if he was smoking weed at Café 420 in Amsterdam? (It exists). Same question with moral clauses.
It’s like going to the VIP room of a strip club. The girl will tell you it’s being recorded.
Here's another interesting question: for those clients who didn't use credit cards, how did they identify them? For example, Kraft (Male 13) paid cash.
https://deadspin.com/robert-kraft-went-to-orchids-of-asia-on-the-morning-of-1832876333
https://deadspin.com/robert-kraft-went-to-orchids-of-asia-on-the-morning-of-1832876333
My guess is that if the VIP room of a strip club is being recorded, nothing illegal is happening in there.
He went twice in less than 24 hrs and her name was Wang? You can't make this sh*t up.
One of the times he went he got a "four hands massage". Big spender.
Robert Kraft
Chief Executive Officer of the New England Patriots
Description
Robert Kenneth Kraft is an American businessman. He is the chairman and chief executive officer of the Kraft Group, a diversified holding company with assets in paper and packaging, sports and entertainment, real estate development and a private equity portfolio. Wikipedia
Partner: Ricki Noel Lander (2012–) Trending
Born: June 5, 1941 (age 77 years), Brookline, MA
Height: 5′ 7″
Penis size: (fill in after tape is made public)
Net worth: 6.6 billion USD (2019)
Spouse: Myra Kraft (m. 1963–2011)
Children: Jonathan Kraft, Daniel A. Kraft, Joshua Kraft, David Kraft
Chief Executive Officer of the New England Patriots
Description
Robert Kenneth Kraft is an American businessman. He is the chairman and chief executive officer of the Kraft Group, a diversified holding company with assets in paper and packaging, sports and entertainment, real estate development and a private equity portfolio. Wikipedia
Partner: Ricki Noel Lander (2012–) Trending
Born: June 5, 1941 (age 77 years), Brookline, MA
Height: 5′ 7″
Penis size: (fill in after tape is made public)
Net worth: 6.6 billion USD (2019)
Spouse: Myra Kraft (m. 1963–2011)
Children: Jonathan Kraft, Daniel A. Kraft, Joshua Kraft, David Kraft
Oh, from a friend of a friend.
Well, he did three putt one hole from three feet out. That should be enough proof for some idiots here that Tiger was anxiety-ridden.
Like Chris Rock says, nothing happens in the champagne room.Jim, YOU DOG, you can afford the VIP room?
It was just the once in New Orleans. I thought it was simply the way it worked down there.Jim, YOU DOG, you can afford the VIP room?
Only the best people was the promise. Can you imagine what the worst people he knows are like?
Oh. Don’t i know that.Well, legal and moral aren’t always the same thing.
Dude, they have him on camera with two identified women, whose ages we know. The were old.I can get you a great deal on this
Kraft is formally charged with solicitation, disorderly conduct and assault with a dead weapon.
So much from the Orange Bloviator about human/sex trafficking over the past 2 weeks, but nary a comment about that in relation to Kraft.
So many people (mostly Pat fans and males) have dismissed this as "what's the big deal"?
Or that Kraft didn't know about the human/sex trafficking part.
Which is bogus as he's not a stupid man (most of the time) and should know that most people in the sex industry are coerced into doing so and/or were victims of sexual abuse at a young age.
And that's doubly the case when the victims here are foreign women (in this case from China) who don't speak English, and esp. since Kraft has donated to a charity that helps victims of human/sex trafficking and that he and his wife have endowed the professorship of a Brandeis University professor who's specialty of study is human/sex trafficking.
Kraft likely knew that the chances were good that at least some of the women were trafficked, but like so many, were more focused on their own pleasure and willfully looked the other way.
As for why Kraft and other wealthy men (people who live around the areas of these "spas" in FL have reported seeing many luxury autos in the parking lot) would patronize these seedy spas; would not be surprised at all if has to do w/ the fetishization of Asian women (apparently, these spas were doing booming business).
Johns are what keep the human/sex traffickers in business.
Plenty of high-end lux autos have been seen in the parking lots of those spas.
Kraft isn't a stupid man and anyone who even has a rudimentary knowledge of the sex industry knows that human/sex trafficking plays a large role.
Plus, Kraft has contributed to a charity that helps trafficked victims and he and his late wife had endowed the professorship at Brandeis University where the professor's specialty is studying human/sex trafficking.
So many people (mostly Pat fans and males) have dismissed this as "what's the big deal"?
Or that Kraft didn't know about the human/sex trafficking part.
Which is bogus as he's not a stupid man (most of the time) and should know that most people in the sex industry are coerced into doing so and/or were victims of sexual abuse at a young age.
And that's doubly the case when the victims here are foreign women (in this case from China) who don't speak English, and esp. since Kraft has donated to a charity that helps victims of human/sex trafficking and that he and his wife have endowed the professorship of a Brandeis University professor who's specialty of study is human/sex trafficking.
Kraft likely knew that the chances were good that at least some of the women were trafficked, but like so many, were more focused on their own pleasure and willfully looked the other way.
As for why Kraft and other wealthy men (people who live around the areas of these "spas" in FL have reported seeing many luxury autos in the parking lot) would patronize these seedy spas; would not be surprised at all if has to do w/ the fetishization of Asian women (apparently, these spas were doing booming business).
Johns are what keep the human/sex traffickers in business.
Plenty of high-end lux autos have been seen in the parking lots of those spas.
Kraft isn't a stupid man and anyone who even has a rudimentary knowledge of the sex industry knows that human/sex trafficking plays a large role.
Plus, Kraft has contributed to a charity that helps trafficked victims and he and his late wife had endowed the professorship at Brandeis University where the professor's specialty is studying human/sex trafficking.
Cops now saying evidence that the women lived at the spa started the investigation. Surveillance showed they had an exclusively male clientele. A little dumpster diving and web surfing and they were convinced.
Geez, guys, just go on PornHub for five minutes and then take a shower. Your good name is the most important thing you have.
Geez, guys, just go on PornHub for five minutes and then take a shower. Your good name is the most important thing you have.
If you were worth $4+ billion, wouldn't you maybe just go to those places and skip the needless risk (and the sleaze- a strip mall in Florida, really?) I mean, at least use a high priced (and discreet) escort service. Stupid has it's price.
Nope. Read the document. The women providing the services were born in 1972, 1973 and 1960.
