Remaining undefeated wrestlers (as of Jan. 19)

[dmm53]

Notes:

a. The list does not include guys redshirting.
b. Total = 10 undefeated.
c. In all likelihood, the Hodge winner will come from this group.
d. Penn State has 3 undefeated wrestlers. No other team has more than 1.

125 Suriano and Cruz
133
141
149 Retherford
157 Hidlay
165 Martinez and McFadden
174 Hall, Valencia, and Lewis
184 Nickal
197
285

 

[nitlion6]

Not surprisingly that is an impressive list of who's who.

 

[Ban Basketball]

b. Anyone missing from the list who belongs there?
184

Nickal

Martin

Renda

You missed the BIGGEST name of all, and papa would quickly remind you of it if he was on here: Downey!

What a hater!

 

[Ban Basketball]

Actually, shouldn't Spencer Lee be included as well, being that his loss was while he was redshirting?

 

[dmm53]

Actually, shouldn't Spencer Lee be included as well, being that his loss was while he was redshirting?

Redshirt wins and losses always count when the wrestler comes out of the shirt that same year. Same thing happens with Nick Lee this year and Mark Hall last year to invoke two PSU examples. Spencer Lee has one loss officially on his record.

 

[dmm53]

You missed the BIGGEST name of all, and papa would quickly remind you of it if he was on here: Downey!

What a hater!

Yes, Downey is 0-0. Perhaps he enters or exits the list after this weekend. Who knows.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Redshirt wins and losses always count when the wrestler comes out of the shirt that same year. Same thing happens with Nick Lee this year and Mark Hall last year to invoke two PSU examples. Spencer Lee has one loss officially on his record.

Ah, ok. This many years following the sport and I did not know that. Thanks.

 

[dunkej01]

Actually, shouldn't Spencer Lee be included as well, being that his loss was while he was redshirting?

if you asked the same in another place I bet you get a different reaction.

#goodpeopleintheseparts

 

[kingslayer_85]

Notes:

a. The list does not include guys redshirting.
b. Anyone missing from the list who belongs there?
c. Total = 25 undefeated. One weight with 4 left; five weights with 3 left; two weights with 2 left; two weights with 1 remaining.
d. In all likelihood, the Hodge winner will come from this group.
e. Speculation: 133 and 141 will not end with any undefeated wrestlers this year.
f. Both Ohio State and Penn State have 5 undefeated wrestlers. Iowa has 4.
g. By the time of the NCAA tournament in March, 9 weights should be down to 2 or fewer undefeated wrestlers due to scheduled dual meets and conference championships that will pit those remaining on the list against one another (barring injury or attempts to keep seeds by holding out wrestlers). The exception could possibly be 174, where the three undefeated wrestlers aren't scheduled to meet each other.

125

Tomasello

Suriano

Cruz


133

Pletcher


141

Zacherl


149

Retherford

Sorensen


157

Nolf

Kemerer

Hidlay


165

Joseph

Martinez

McFadden

Marinelli


174

Hall

Valencia

Lewis


184

Nickal

Martin

Renda


197

Moore

Weigel (only 5 matches)


285

Snyder (only 4 matches)

Coon

Stoll

If you had waited till after feb 3rd you would have a few drop off and then some more a week later

 

[dmm53]

Just realized that Chad Walsh of Rider is also undefeated at 165.

 

[TangSoo]

5 Penn Staters, 8 PA wrestlers.

 

[86PSUPaul]

Strike Nato from the list today...

 

[johnstownsteel]

5 Penn Staters, 8 PA wrestlers.

I’m counting 9 PA wrestlers.

 

[funkisfun12]

Brands knows how to keep Stoll on this list.

 

[dmm53]

Strike Nato from the list today...

So it is written, so he is now stricken.

 

[dmm53]

I'm curious what might happen with NCAA seeds if either Pletcher or Zacherl remain undefeated going into the tournament at 133 and 141, respectively. Zacherl has only wrestled and beaten Nick Lee among top ten guys (a 6-4 match) I think. Would either or both be considered for a #1 seed? While Pletcher is ranked #2 by Flo, Zacherl is ranked #7 by Flo and does not face any major upcoming challenges By contrast, the top 5 or 6 guys at the weight (Meredith, Jack, Yanni, Heil, Eirmann) have been beating up on each other all year while Zacherl lays low in the E.W.L. At 133, Gross is clearly the cream of the crop but he went up to face off with Meredith at 141 and lost a close match so he won't officially be undefeated.

I'm curious how the seeding committee will (or should) handle the potential situations.

Here are Zacherl's matches before the conference championship:

01/26 #145 Hagan, Nate Comparison #32 Edinboro
01/28 #34 Cheek, Evan Comparison #72 Cleveland State
02/02 #21 Dippery, Tyson Comparison #15 Rider
02/09 #250 Stahlnecker, Braden Comparison #64 Bloomsburg
02/11 #30 Shoop, Kyle Comparison #16 Lock Haven
02/16 #113 Perry, Sa'Derian Comparison #52 Eastern Michigan
02/16 #18 Gasca, Javier Comparison #55 Michigan State
02/18 #56 Monserrat, Christian Comparison #47 West Virginia

Here are Pletcher's:

01/26 #153 Santos, Matt Comparison #55 Michigan State
01/28 #30 Thornton, Ben Comparison #31 Purdue
02/03 #27 Keener, Corey Comparison #2 Penn State
02/11 #4 Micic, Stevan Comparison #3 Michigan
02/18 #19 Wilson, Tariq Comparison #6 North Carolina State

 

[diggerpup]

Pletcher beat Micic at Cliff Keen, but Micic has been in fire lately.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Micic knocks off Pletcher in the February 11th dual.

 

[dmm53]

Down go three today previously undefeated: Walsh (to Marsteller), Stoll (to Coon) and Weigel (to Miklus).

 

[slushhead]

Pletcher beat Micic at Cliff Keen, but Micic has been in fire lately.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Micic knocks off Pletcher in the February 11th dual.

I'll be surprised if Micic doesn't knock him off -- but it needs to happen at B1Gs moreso than at the dual.

Regardless, I don't see any Realistic scenario where Pletcher is seeded #1 at Nationals -- he would have to run the table the rest of the way, and Gross would have to lose to a 133 somewhere down the line (Brock @ Big 12s being his biggest remaining challenge). The loss to Meredith will/should not factor into postseason seeding.

 

[El-Jefe]

I think Micic beats him both times. The 22-10 loss to DeSanto, getting dumped multiple times ... something was wrong with Micic that weekend, and the 7-5 Pletcher win might not be a good predictor of future results.

B10s loss will hurt more than duals, but either would cost Pletcher any shot at the #1 seed. Gross' loss to Meredith at 141 doesn't count toward 133 seeding.

And if it did: bumping up to take on the #1 guy at he next weight, possibly risking the #1 seed at nationals? "Not how we would handle it."

 

[Cowbell Man]

I think Micic beats him both times. The 22-10 loss to DeSanto, getting dumped multiple times ... something was wrong with Micic that weekend, and the 7-5 Pletcher win might not be a good predictor of future results.

B10s loss will hurt more than duals, but either would cost Pletcher any shot at the #1 seed. Gross' loss to Meredith at 141 doesn't count toward 133 seeding.

And if it did: bumping up to take on the #1 guy at he next weight, possibly risking the #1 seed at nationals? "Not how we would handle it."

And if it did move Gross off #1 it would be against the very fabric and spirit of this sport. Go find the best guy you can and wrestle him. In HS we moved up and down sometimes to creat dual win and very often to wrestle the Gooch on the other team. We don’t see it in college, except when guys like Koll move Dean up a weight to get Cox and Cox is suddenly too tired to make the trip. When it can be done, it would be great if morenwould do it.

Then maybe we won’t get inane writers from N.J. saying “all eyes will be on 125” today in the least compelling match.

 

[dmm53]

It's so sad that Nolf is no longer on this list because of an injury rather than a true loss. The most exciting wrestler to take the mat in the last two years.

 

[nitlion6]

I think Micic beats him both times. The 22-10 loss to DeSanto, getting dumped multiple times ... something was wrong with Micic that weekend, and the 7-5 Pletcher win might not be a good predictor of future results.

B10s loss will hurt more than duals, but either would cost Pletcher any shot at the #1 seed. Gross' loss to Meredith at 141 doesn't count toward 133 seeding.

And if it did: bumping up to take on the #1 guy at he next weight, possibly risking the #1 seed at nationals? "Not how we would handle it."

You know as well as I do that when presented an opportunity to screw it up, anything NCAA will generally step up and deliver a screw turned up.

 

[El-Jefe]

You know as well as I do that when presented an opportunity to screw it up, anything NCAA will generally step up and deliver a screw turned up.

Is Tan Tom still on the seeding committee?

 

[86PSUPaul]

I had to go back a few pages to find this, remove two from this list as of Saturday, and hopefully two more this coming Saturday.

 

[dmm53]

I had to go back a few pages to find this, remove two from this list as of Saturday, and hopefully two more this coming Saturday.

Done. Martin and Moore gone. Next week will likely see a few more disappear. The war of attrition continues.

 

[dmm53]

19 undefeated guys left. A few match-ups this weekend that should lower the number again: Joseph vs. Marinelli, Coon vs. Snyder, Retherford vs. Sorenson. Perhaps even Pletcher vs. Micic.

 

[dmm53]

The War of Attrition continues: strike Sorenson and Joseph from the list.

 

[dmm53]

Coon and Pletcher of Ohio State go down today. The number of undefeated left is now only 15. After Big 10s, at least 2 more will fall.

 

[nerfstate]

Not Coon....

 

[manmythlegend1]

Since both wresters I am talking about are undefeated I decided to post on this thread...on the mat they are talking about 174 possible seeds at NCAA. The argument is that Valencia will get the #1 seed in part because of the coaches poll that probably takes the All Star loss into consideration.

Question- If Hall wins Big 10 championship he would officially be undefeated. Does anyone know when the last time was that an undefeated Wrestler who has a full season of victories and was a returning National Champion did not get the #1 seed? How does Hall not get the #1 seed in that scenario?

 

[Dwayne_Johnson33]

So, past years results do not factor at all into seeding, they are absolutely irrelevant in the eyes of the seeding committee as is the NWCA All-Star meet. From how I understand it the factors for seeding are head-to-head competition, which is obviously not applicable here because technically they didn't wrestle this season. Then qualifying event placement, quality wins, results against common opponents (just win or loss, bonus is not a factor), winning percentage, then RPI in that order. Now these are all virtually identical for both wrestlers. So, the next determining factor is coaches ranking, this is where Mark could potentially get the 2 seed. Hope that helped answer your 2nd question. As far as your first question, I don't believe there has been one (other than QW in 2013 but was at a different weight class the prior year, and Kilgore was champ at 97 in 2011 and took an ORS in 2012), however previous years results used to be a factor in terms of seeding up until I believe 2011.

 

[El-Jefe]

Question- If Hall wins Big 10 championship he would officially be undefeated. Does anyone know when the last time was that an undefeated Wrestler who has a full season of victories and was a returning National Champion did not get the #1 seed? How does Hall not get the #1 seed in that scenario?

Will happen to Cruz this year if Suriano is the undefeated B10 champ.

 

[Ja1339]

Will happen to Cruz this year if Suriano is the undefeated B10 champ.

Good point, albeit with an easier schedule than Hall.

 

[nitlion6]

So, past years results do not factor at all into seeding, they are absolutely irrelevant in the eyes of the seeding committee as is the NWCA All-Star meet. From how I understand it the factors for seeding are head-to-head competition, which is obviously not applicable here because technically they didn't wrestle this season. Then qualifying event placement, quality wins, results against common opponents (just win or loss, bonus is not a factor), winning percentage, then RPI in that order. Now these are all virtually identical for both wrestlers. So, the next determining factor is coaches ranking, this is where Mark could potentially get the 2 seed. Hope that helped answer your 2nd question. As far as your first question, I don't believe there has been one (other than QW in 2013 but was at a different weight class the prior year, and Kilgore was champ at 97 in 2011 and took an ORS in 2012), however previous years results used to be a factor in terms of seeding up until I believe 2011.

Quentin was runner-up at a different weight the previous year.

 

[nitlion6]

Since both wresters I am talking about are undefeated I decided to post on this thread...on the mat they are talking about 174 possible seeds at NCAA. The argument is that Valencia will get the #1 seed in part because of the coaches poll that probably takes the All Star loss into consideration.

Question- If Hall wins Big 10 championship he would officially be undefeated. Does anyone know when the last time was that an undefeated Wrestler who has a full season of victories and was a returning National Champion did not get the #1 seed? How does Hall not get the #1 seed in that scenario?

To answer your question. There is zero objective reasoning for seeding an undefeated, B1G champion Mark Hall anywhere but first.
Since there is a seeding committee made up of people, objectivity can be replaced with subjectivity.

 

[El-Jefe]

To answer your question. There is zero objective reasoning for seeding an undefeated, B1G champion Mark Hall anywhere but first.
Since there is a seeding committee made up of people, objectivity can be replaced with subjectivity.

What does "B1G champion" have to do with it, objectively speaking?

He either had more quality wins, or an overall better strength of schedule, or didn't. Factoring in the timing is, well, subjective. (For that matter, so is excluding the timing of it.)

 

[Dwayne_Johnson33]

To answer your question. There is zero objective reasoning for seeding an undefeated, B1G champion Mark Hall anywhere but first.
Since there is a seeding committee made up of people, objectivity can be replaced with subjectivity.

No offense but your post is completely subjective. I literally just listed all of the factors that go into determining the seeding, how is that not objective exactly?

 

[nitlion6]

What does "B1G champion" have to do with it, objectively speaking?

He either had more quality wins, or an overall better strength of schedule, or didn't. Factoring in the timing is, well, subjective. (For that matter, so is excluding the timing of it.)

The reason for putting the B1G reference in is for timing. Right now everybody has maybe another match and defintely a qualifying tournament to wrestle. Identifying Mark as undefeated B1G champion I am using the tag to time stamp the moment seeding is to be determined. At that point there is no additional wrestling.

It was not meant to say being Big10 champ deserved more consideration than the Pac-12 champ.

 

[nitlion6]

No offense but your post is completely subjective. I literally just listed all of the factors that go into determining the seeding, how is that not objective exactly?

So if everything is equal until you get to the coaches rankings, which are subjective, and the coaches knowing the two kids have spilt matches. One winning an exhibition and one winning in a championship semi-final, no matter which way they choose it is an eye test choice. The ranking of these two is purely subjective.

My subjective point of view is if all other things being equal, last year's champ gets the benefit of the doubt.

So yeah, you have a point. The seeding committee deferring to the coaches ranking is following a guideline to determine the seeding. Attempting to keep it objective, but in doing so they are using someone else's subjective point of view.