Mitchell Mesenbrink's Pace

[Psalm 1 guy]

I just rewatched Mitchell's last match with Caliendo (23-7 TF in 6:47). In the 4 minutes and 20 seconds they spent on their feet I counted at least 14 committed shots from Mitchell, of which he converted seven of them. That averages out to a committed shot once every 18.5 seconds against a very solid opponent. This is not even counting the numerous level changes, penetration steps, snap downs and constant forward pressure by Mitchell. It really is a sight to behold. Mitchell's pace is such that it is hard to truly appreciate it during the matches since everything is transpiring so quickly. It is only after being able to re-watch and study the matches that you can truly appreciate his phenomenal pace and pressure. Considering what a great job the Penn State coaches do in developing their wrestlers, the sky is the limit for Mitchell. I am so excited to watch his college and freestyle career unfold these next few years. And as a Penn state fan I am thrilled he wanted to come to Penn State!

 

[Ian]

Hopefully many youngsters start to emulate this pressing style as his match with Hamiti was awesome and is what the fans demand to see more of. Hopefully the PSU coaches harness that natural ability and it becomes a long awaited trend as the sport gains popularity. Just fun to watch. It’s chaos but the kid loves it. And MM loves chatting so he can become a real personality, too. Refreshing.

 

[hlstone]

Hopefully many youngsters start to emulate this pressing style as his match with Hamiti was awesome and is what the fans demand to see more of. Hopefully the PSU coaches harness that natural ability and it becomes a long awaited trend as the sport gains popularity. Just fun to watch. It’s chaos but the kid loves it. And MM loves chatting so he can become a real personality, too. Refreshing.

That kid Basset is relentless. I have no idea how he will do at the next level. But, I am sure he will be a pain in the ass to wrestle for every opponent he toes the line with.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Put Mesenbrink's brain in Beau's body, and he wins 141 by bonus all the way through the finals. That is why it's so frustrating.

Do you think Mitch has a perfect set up or angle every 18 seconds? Hell no.

Nolf, Zain, and Nick Lee all had it to some extent. They also were some of the least favorite guys to wrestle in the country for a reason. Noone likes to run into a buzz saw.

When your conversation rate is 50%, with only a fraction of the other 50% resulting in losing to a successful reattack, and most in stale mates, you don't really have to care that you are talking the 'perfect' shot at the perfect time.

If you shoot you win, is more true than not.

 

[Aardvark86]

Mongoose

 

[NitFan53]

Mitch is so much fun to watch on and off the mat. How many wrestlers shake the camera man's hand after a championship match?

Did anyone notice, while the wrestlers were on the podium, the slight flinch from Caliendo when Mitch reached for the bracket card. He'll be gun shy for the next few years.

 

[Random4598375]

Hopefully many youngsters start to emulate this pressing style as his match with Hamiti was awesome and is what the fans demand to see more of. Hopefully the PSU coaches harness that natural ability and it becomes a long awaited trend as the sport gains popularity. Just fun to watch. It’s chaos but the kid loves it. And MM loves chatting so he can become a real personality, too. Refreshing.

Hopefully, the Hamiti match sent the message to all the kids out there watching that wrestling with pace and aggression like that can get you behind 9-2, but even when that happens, you're not out of it, even in the conference finals against a top-seeded top 5 wrestler.

 

[tullfan68]

Put Mesenbrink's brain in Beau's body, and he wins 141 by bonus all the way through the finals. That is why it's so frustrating.

Do you think Mitch has a perfect set up or angle every 18 seconds? Hell no.

Nolf, Zain, and Nick Lee all had it to some extent. They also were some of the least favorite guys to wrestle in the country for a reason. Noone likes to run into a buzz saw.

When your conversation rate is 50%, with only a fraction of the other 50% resulting in losing to a successful reattack, and most in stale mates, you don't really have to care that you are talking the 'perfect' shot at the perfect time.

If you shoot you win, is more true than not.

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so true Beau can pretty much score at will he just needs to shoot in the first and keep shooting I know Cael has to get frustrated with some of his guys!

 

[HikeNatParks]

Still think a lot of MM is physiological and can’t be duplicated. Sure, tell a kid to shoot continuously, varying angles and direction. But don’t expect every wrestler’s unique DNA to regulate breath in the same way to provide energy needed to continue seemingly non-stop movement.
Plenty of wrestlers WANT to recreate MM’s manic effort. The fact we don’t see it happening (and only NOW enjoy it in him) may prove that this type of generated chaos is different than just willing it.
Regardless, we’re blessed watching it happen as a Lion.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Still think a lot of MM is physiological and can’t be duplicated. Sure, tell a kid to shoot continuously, varying angles and direction. But don’t expect every wrestler’s unique DNA to regulate breath in the same way to provide energy needed to continue seemingly non-stop movement.
Plenty of wrestlers WANT to recreate MM’s manic effort. The fact we don’t see it happening (and only NOW enjoy it in him) may prove that this type of generated chaos is different than just willing it.
Regardless, we’re blessed watching it happen as a Lion.

it's not like he is just shooting at random without 'skill' - else he would be taken down and ridden more often than not. His shots are actually pretty creative, a lot of misdirection's and technique

 

[WPB_lion]

Still think a lot of MM is physiological and can’t be duplicated. Sure, tell a kid to shoot continuously, varying angles and direction. But don’t expect every wrestler’s unique DNA to regulate breath in the same way to provide energy needed to continue seemingly non-stop movement.
Plenty of wrestlers WANT to recreate MM’s manic effort. The fact we don’t see it happening (and only NOW enjoy it in him) may prove that this type of generated chaos is different than just willing it.
Regardless, we’re blessed watching it happen as a Lion.

Agreed. MM has an elite motor that is impossible to replicate by just willing it. Some of it may be psychological but IMO most likely it is physiological.

 

[Dogwelder]

Mongoose

People keep saying mongoose. But a mongoose is primarily an evader, who tires out a snake by keeping his distance and making fake attacks to trick a snake into making bad attacks just at the limit of the snake’s range, until the snake is tired. Only then does the mongoose attack for real. And then one single attack is likely to kill the snake.

Too much of that is not like Mitchell at all. Mitchell gets close, and makes frequent, nonstop, genuine attacks. He’s more like a one-man school of piranha. Or a mammal with rabies that somehow still has a good brain.

 

[WEAREPSU_LI]

Still think a lot of MM is physiological and can’t be duplicated. Sure, tell a kid to shoot continuously, varying angles and direction. But don’t expect every wrestler’s unique DNA to regulate breath in the same way to provide energy needed to continue seemingly non-stop movement.
Plenty of wrestlers WANT to recreate MM’s manic effort. The fact we don’t see it happening (and only NOW enjoy it in him) may prove that this type of generated chaos is different than just willing it.
Regardless, we’re blessed watching it happen as a Lion.

It could be his Father and Ben's coaching combined with his physiology. The Askren/Mesenbrink coaching is beginning to create a style. Still nebulous, but it feels like it is beginning to coalesce into a tangible style.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

Still think a lot of MM is physiological and can’t be duplicated. Sure, tell a kid to shoot continuously, varying angles and direction. But don’t expect every wrestler’s unique DNA to regulate breath in the same way to provide energy needed to continue seemingly non-stop movement.
Plenty of wrestlers WANT to recreate MM’s manic effort. The fact we don’t see it happening (and only NOW enjoy it in him) may prove that this type of generated chaos is different than just willing it.
Regardless, we’re blessed watching it happen as a Lion.

THANK YOU.

Came exactly to say this. Most wrestlers would love to wrestle like Mesenbrink or Taylor or Nolf. But the overwhelming majority are not capable of doing so. That’s what makes these guys special.

Does mentality play a role? Sure. But it’s easier to have that mentality when your body will actually let you do it.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I’ll come at you like a spider monkey!

 

[bourbon n blues]

THANK YOU.

Came exactly to say this. Most wrestlers would love to wrestle like Mesenbrink or Taylor or Nolf. But the overwhelming majority are not capable of doing so. That’s what makes these guys special.

Does mentality play a role? Sure. But it’s easier to have that mentality when your body will actually let you do it.

A sub optimal body usually will mean you have a lower ceiling. As you got the genetic ladder, the things that’ll differentiate between the winners and losers become much smaller. And attention to detail gets a lot more important ,

 

[RoarLions1]

Love the kid, as I love all the wrestlers, each unique and great in their own way. Since this is a Mesenbrink thread;
-- His attack rate and success rate already mentioned
-- Respectful to his opponent, even patting an opponent on the butt mid-bout for a great attack or whatever
-- Dancing during the awards ceremony at B1G's, alone, just having fun and enjoying every second
-- Smile is contagious, and his "looseness" will help other wrestlers stay loose (a good thing, intangible that pays dividends)
-- Mark my work, in his own way will become a leader on the PSU team, moreso each year of his eligibility

 

[86PSUPaul]

Generated chaos… I like that!

 

[AgSurfer]

THANK YOU.

Came exactly to say this. Most wrestlers would love to wrestle like Mesenbrink or Taylor or Nolf. But the overwhelming majority are not capable of doing so. That’s what makes these guys special.

Does mentality play a role? Sure. But it’s easier to have that mentality when your body will actually let you do it.

I don't agree with you guys on this one. Your conditioning for competitions depends on how you wrestle in practice. If you really step up the intensity level in practice, your conditioning will follow accordingly.

 

[HikeNatParks]

I don't agree with you guys on this one. Your conditioning for competitions depends on how you wrestle in practice. If you really step up the intensity level in practice, your conditioning will follow accordingly.

Fair point, but I believe collegiate wrestlers in most top programs are being adequately conditioned in their practices (some, cough cough, may be OVER-conditioned). My gut says we’re seeing the perfect storm of a physiological advantage in MM’s respiratory capabilities combined with athletic desire, practical skills, thirst for improvement, and loving-life-joy to compete.
I’m fine with being totally wrong, too. I still get to watch and root for a spectacularly exciting athlete who leaves me more breathless watching . . . than he is from wrestling .

 

[PaWrestlingFan7]

Fair point, but I believe collegiate wrestlers in most top programs are being adequately conditioned in their practices (some, cough cough, may be OVER-conditioned). My gut says we’re seeing the perfect storm of a physiological advantage in MM’s respiratory capabilities combined with athletic desire, practical skills, thirst for improvement, and loving-life-joy to compete.
I’m fine with being totally wrong, too. I still get to watch and root for a spectacularly exciting athlete who leaves me more breathless watching . . . than he is from wrestling .

I really believe another factor in this is Cael's philosophy of not killing his wrestlers with cutting weight. It stands to reason, that the better you feel in that regard helps your conditioning and recovery in matches and/or tournaments.

 

[Cowbell Man]

During another match, Sparks or someone pointed out that data point….seconds between shots. I don’t remember who, but I remember them talking about it.

Yeah, Taylor, Nolf, Sanderson, Metcalf…..those I recall as being that often.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I really believe another factor in this is Cael's philosophy of not killing his wrestlers with cutting weight. It stands to reason, that the better you feel in that regard helps your conditioning and recovery in matches and/or tournaments.

I know a season of weekly bad weight cuts eventually catch up. With me it was end of Feb/beginning of March 3 years straight. Yea, we don't need to discuss intelligence

 

[82bordeaux]

People keep saying mongoose. But a mongoose is primarily an evader, who tires out a snake by keeping his distance and making fake attacks to trick a snake into making bad attacks just at the limit of the snake’s range, until the snake is tired.

 

[82bordeaux]

Fair point, but I believe collegiate wrestlers in most top programs are being adequately conditioned in their practices (some, cough cough, may be OVER-conditioned). My gut says we’re seeing the perfect storm of a physiological advantage in MM’s respiratory capabilities combined with athletic desire, practical skills, thirst for improvement, and loving-life-joy to compete.
I’m fine with being totally wrong, too. I still get to watch and root for a spectacularly exciting athlete who leaves me more breathless watching . . . than he is from wrestling .

My cross-country coach had us do lung capacity tests one year. The results were almost identical to our average finish order.

 

[AndEEss]

I don't agree with you guys on this one. Your conditioning for competitions depends on how you wrestle in practice. If you really step up the intensity level in practice, your conditioning will follow accordingly.

Sure, but people have a genetic limit on how hard they can go. And, additionally, they may have different rates of recovery from day to day, which results in them being able to withstand a lower level of training effort over time.

The end result of that is a high cumulative training stress load. If properly managed with appropriate recovery, that ability to stack harder days on top of harder days yields gigantic differences in fitness after a while.

 

[AgSurfer]

Sure, but people have a genetic limit on how hard they can go. And, additionally, they may have different rates of recovery from day to day, which results in them being able to withstand a lower level of training effort over time.

The end result of that is a high cumulative training stress load. If properly managed with appropriate recovery, that ability to stack harder days on top of harder days yields gigantic differences in fitness after a while.

I don't doubt that a lot of people posting here are more knowledgeable than me about physical conditioning. But, I'll throw in my own personal experience, FWIW. I don't consider myself to be as physically gifted as guys like Ed Ruth, etc., but I was able to do a 2 minute half mile on an indoor track on pure wrestling conditioning. I never trained at track & field sports at all.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I don't agree with you guys on this one. Your conditioning for competitions depends on how you wrestle in practice. If you really step up the intensity level in practice, your conditioning will follow accordingly.

This is a wild oversimplification of things on several levels.

1) MM success is more than just conditioning.

2) Regardless of how much someone trains or how hard they do so, not everyone has the same VO2 max or VO2 peak.

 

[AgSurfer]

This is a wild oversimplification of things on several levels.

1) MM success is more than just conditioning.

2) Regardless of how much someone trains or how hard they do so, not everyone has the same VO2 max or VO2 peak.

Again, I don't completely agree with you on some of your points.

Regarding MM, no argument there. He's just in a class by himself. It's not just his training, but also his aptitude. He seems to have a particular knack for learning wrestling technique and adjusting in real time as a match develops. Wade Schalles and Bo Nickal were in the same category.

However, VO2 max CAN be increased, at least relatively to where the athlete starts prior to the improvement. There are specific training methods to do this that basically involve increasing the intensity of excercise. Granted, some individuals probably have a higher theoretical maximum limit due to their genetic disposition, but any athlete can still make improvements using the proper approach.

Also, there's the approach of blood doping where you get into a gray area. PEDs are definitely illegal, but I don't know if it is illegal to spend months living and training at high altitude and then compete at sea level. The bottom line is that there are ways to increase your red blood cell count without resorting to PEDs.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I don't doubt that a lot of people posting here are more knowledgeable than me about physical conditioning. But, I'll throw in my own personal experience, FWIW. I don't consider myself to be as physically gifted as guys like Ed Ruth, etc., but I was able to do a 2 minute half mile on an indoor track on pure wrestling conditioning. I never trained at track & field sports at all.

I was faster (~3miles) after wrestling season than after the fall cross country season

 

[vhsalum]

This is a wild oversimplification of things on several levels.

1) MM success is more than just conditioning.

2) Regardless of how much someone trains or how hard they do so, not everyone has the same VO2 max or VO2 peak.

While 2) is true - we're talking in comparison to other d1 wrestlers.

And for that group? it's 100% mental. Fear plays such a huge factor. Fear of being tired, fear of giving up points, fear of ending up in bad position - MM just truly doesn't care about it and is willing to exhaust himself and wrestle through that pain.

 

[psumacw]

alright, so i know i shouldn't be thinking about this, at all, BUT

mitchell is undefeated in college so far. if he goes, let's say 90-0 during his freshman-junior seasons. does he try and get 70 matches his senior year so he can finish 160-0?

 

[AgSurfer]

While 2) is true - we're talking in comparison to other d1 wrestlers.

And for that group? it's 100% mental. Fear plays such a huge factor. Fear of being tired, fear of giving up points, fear of ending up in bad position - MM just truly doesn't care about it and is willing to exhaust himself and wrestle through that pain.

I don't think it is 100% mental, although I do agree that the mental part is a huge factor.

Even if MM, Bo or anyone else was completely fearless, I don't think their lack of fear would win out against my favorite kitty:

 

[RoarLions1]

-- Fast-twitch vs slow-twitch fibers
-- Cardiovascular differences
-- Metabolic differences
-- Body shape (from lean & long to short & stocky, and everything in-between)
-- Fitness level
-- Training (skill level)
-- Attitude (including aversion to making a mistake)
-- Miscellaneous other (sleep, nutrition, and more)

No wonder each and every athlete is unique. There are many, many factors that make up each one. I'll never understand folks that say "why can't he be like Nolf (or DT or ER or Bo or others)?" Crazy talk. Grateful for every kid in our room, I am, and the unique, sometimes underappreciated gifts they bring to Penn State wrestling.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

They now call that the Parkinson's shuffle.

 

[Still in State College]

People keep saying mongoose. But a mongoose is primarily an evader, who tires out a snake by keeping his distance and making fake attacks to trick a snake into making bad attacks just at the limit of the snake’s range, until the snake is tired. Only then does the mongoose attack for real. And then one single attack is likely to kill the snake.

Too much of that is not like Mitchell at all. Mitchell gets close, and makes frequent, nonstop, genuine attacks. He’s more like a one-man school of piranha. Or a mammal with rabies that somehow still has a good brain.

So are you saying that Beau attacks like a mongoose?

 

[Still in State College]

alright, so i know i shouldn't be thinking about this, at all, BUT

mitchell is undefeated in college so far. if he goes, let's say 90-0 during his freshman-junior seasons. does he try and get 70 matches his senior year so he can finish 160-0?

Unless he transfers he isn't getting 30 matches a year at PSU. If he makes 27 this year it might be his highwater mark.

 

[AgSurfer]

Unless he transfers he isn't getting 30 matches a year at PSU. If he makes 27 this year it might be his highwater mark.

Cael wants to make sure that his record is never broken. 😁

 

[Random4598375]

alright, so i know i shouldn't be thinking about this, at all, BUT

mitchell is undefeated in college so far. if he goes, let's say 90-0 during his freshman-junior seasons. does he try and get 70 matches his senior year so he can finish 160-0?

If he went to Luther Open or Soldier Salute to get a bunch of matches against D2 or D3, would those matches count?

 

[katsujinken]

Compare this to Will Lewan who takes a committed attached every 18.5 years. I really feel like it's in our best interests to start a go fund me to Pay Mr Lewan to leave his shoes on the mat next weekend.