Justin Shorter.....
- Thread starter Psualum2007
- Start date
Which three WR’s should start ?
Reid did not work out as a PR in 2016.
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This X10000. Shorter is 6’4” 230 pounds. He just drifted away from the ball and let it come to him. He had plenty of time to adjust and attack that ball. That was a gimmie catch for the receivers you mentioned.
Yeah but to be fair, the first INT was basically a good punt in the 1st quarter and shorter’s drop in the end zone didn’t really matter, as we scored a TD a few plays later. The George PI was killer, but seemed like a questionable call. Point being, as bad as the “X” was, other things cost us the game today - terrible pass rush and secondary play, Rahne playcalling, and Clifford missing wide open receivers in the 1st half chief among them
The X problem has been all season and even last year. The stats for that position are dreadful. Defenses aren’t paying much mind to whoever we line up there and for good reason.
If Shorter makes that contested catch, we score a TD in all likelihood. Instead, MN gets the pick and it fires them up for a TD drive. It set the tone for the first half. In many ways, this game reminded me of the Pitt game from 2016.
This was sloppy game by us. Lots of unforced errors, poor fundamentals and bad decisions to go around. We have gotten away with this sort of play against inferior teams all season. The only team we can beat playing like that from here on out is Rutgers.
Ehh, I mean there’s no arguing the production out of the X has been awful going back to last year, but pinning this game on it is a bit much. The defense was responsible for giving up that first touchdown - Minnesota got the ball at their own 5. The interception shouldn’t have had made a big difference.
I would love for Shorter or George to step up. But a pass rush that lives up to the hype or a play caller that appears to have some semblance of a game plan would be more impactful imo
Come on guys. All this bitching about not using Shorter and they come out and target him and he doesn’t break up an interception and has 2 terrible drops one of which was right in his hands for a TD. I’d like to see the kid turn it around, but today was Exhibit A on why he hasn’t played or been targeted more this year.
He did not play well today, but today's performance is NOT conclusive "evidence" of why he hasn't been targeted. It is just as likely to be QB growth, that maybe (despite the fact that he didn't play well today either) that 14 saw more of the field / more progressions than he has in previous games.
I don’t know how anybody could look at what Shorter has done on the field and conclude he is good enough to start. Maybe if Cam Sullivan Brown was available, he would be the starter now and we would have another passing option. George is a little better, but not much. You put either of these guys on the 2016 or 2017 roster and they would only see the field in garbage time.
I can only assume we have a real talent deficiency at WR on our roster.
Well I don't know about that but we should not be remiss should he hit the transfer portal. Next man up!
^^^ This. Despite the lack of execution and incompetent back judge we still almost snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Think about it! And then gear up for IU because it won't be easy for our secondary.
Maybe that's why we have 5 WR recruits in the next class
Not so sure about Parsons. For a leader on defense to sit out the first series because of needing a behavioral adjustment is not good. ABC actually had a graphic at the start of the game that said he would not be playing until the 2nd quarter. Windsor and Mustipher seemed to disappear the whole game today as we got absolutely no pressure on the QB up the middle. Also Culpepper looked lost and slow on the one long TD play. The offensive line did pass block well today, but so frustrating how many times late in the game we ran up the middle with little result.
If Hamler is gone next season, here’s hoping we see a lot of new faces at WR.
The door is certainly wide open.
True on deficiency. I would guess that Shorter's playing time up till today is an indication of what the coaches felt he deserved, no? And maybe his playing time was ramped up because Brown Sullivan was hurt?
Correct. The conclusive evidence of why he should never play, is his performance on the field in every game of his career, not just today. Sit the kid and let him watch and then either get him a sports psychologist or let him drop passes somewhere else.
Got nothing from it last year either and yet now Johnson is killing it out west. Is it the players?
We could say same against Kentucky, USC, Ohio St twice, Sparty twice, Maryland few years back. The list goes on. Tiring act.
OMG NOT the time for anyone to give up on Shorter. He's still had probably fewer than 20 targets in his entire career at Penn State. He is still getting his feet wet. Young receivers are going to play tentatively and be nervous in big situations.
The blame, if you have to assign blame, should be assigned to Rahne for not getting the X more involved in the offense against lesser opponents earlier in the season. The near total absence of the X in game planning has been evident from the beginning of the season. Yes Rahne had a lot of things to worry about, but it's pretty much common sense that you're not going to survive a Big Ten season without using your X receivers. PSU has two good ones -- they needed to use them before yesterday..
Shorter and George can play, there's no question. They have size, they have speed, they have hands. Shorter needs experience, that's all. I think big receivers take longer, on average, because their bodies are still developing coordination. Even if he develops 3x as fast as Gesicki, Shorter is going to drop a lot of passes before he gets it together.
They don't call these skill positions for nothing. It's very difficult skills and then you have to take it from the practice field to being able to perform in front of stadiums full of people. It takes time. Not everybody is a Chris Godwin who was a highly finished product in his 2nd year -- Godwin is an outlier.
The problem with the transfer portal is that it offers an easy way out. Juwan Johnson would have been the senior making those big catches and winning the game on national TV yesterday if he hadn't taken an easy way out. Shorter doesn't sound like he's the type to take the easy way out. I hope he knows that there are plenty of fans out there who believe in him and can't wait for him to become an All-American at Penn State. Continue to work hard, and good thing WILL happen.
The blame, if you have to assign blame, should be assigned to Rahne for not getting the X more involved in the offense against lesser opponents earlier in the season. The near total absence of the X in game planning has been evident from the beginning of the season. Yes Rahne had a lot of things to worry about, but it's pretty much common sense that you're not going to survive a Big Ten season without using your X receivers. PSU has two good ones -- they needed to use them before yesterday..
Shorter and George can play, there's no question. They have size, they have speed, they have hands. Shorter needs experience, that's all. I think big receivers take longer, on average, because their bodies are still developing coordination. Even if he develops 3x as fast as Gesicki, Shorter is going to drop a lot of passes before he gets it together.
They don't call these skill positions for nothing. It's very difficult skills and then you have to take it from the practice field to being able to perform in front of stadiums full of people. It takes time. Not everybody is a Chris Godwin who was a highly finished product in his 2nd year -- Godwin is an outlier.
The problem with the transfer portal is that it offers an easy way out. Juwan Johnson would have been the senior making those big catches and winning the game on national TV yesterday if he hadn't taken an easy way out. Shorter doesn't sound like he's the type to take the easy way out. I hope he knows that there are plenty of fans out there who believe in him and can't wait for him to become an All-American at Penn State. Continue to work hard, and good thing WILL happen.
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I think this says a lot. Then you look at the efforts before the season to get transfers and it is hard not to conclude the staff knew there were going to be deficiencies at WR this year. Combine that with the fact that the true freshman wideouts haven’t played a meaningful down this year. I have no idea why Weston Carr hasn’t been seeing the field.
The coaching turnover for the position certainly appears to have had a role in this situation. But there is more to it than that when you have guys who have a lot of trouble just catching the ball.
It was a terrible throw, way behind him if he leads him just a bit he might have a chance, He had Winfield boxed out-ball has to be in front of him to give him a chance.
Looks like Shorter's had nine receptions this year. How well was Hamilton playing after his first nine receptions? Still remember how hard he took that Pitt drop, seemed to really motivate him.
ETA -- Hamilton's first game was Croke Park? Targeted 11 times in the game. No doubt he was hot but there was no pressure.
ETA -- Hamilton's first game was Croke Park? Targeted 11 times in the game. No doubt he was hot but there was no pressure.
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In 2014, he had 82 receptions. Over six a game. I’m thinking he was playing better than anyone expected.
Killing it? One game is now "killing it"??
I'd say our scheme defensively contributed most. Waiting on teams to mess up, disguising delayed blitz's to the point that a CB is left on an island with two WRs and his safety help is in the middle of the field, our inability to play tight coverage and contest more throws...
Keaton Ellis might have gotten beat on the TD, but I'd rather have our guys covering like that and get beat than the flat footed off the ball coverage we saw yesterday. We finally adjusted in the 4th quarter, but after they had 31.
OL did great pass blocking. Considering Minnesota knew we would be passing as they had the lead and had been working clock, they were ineffective getting to Clifford. On one of the sacks, Brown slipped out of the back field and wasn't picked up. On another, Clifford could have stepped up and thrown it away.
If we are going to throw an and zone fade, why not to Friermuth who is big and bad. He can at least battle for the ball. Shorter, on the other hand, needs to learn to use his body to force the interference and avoid the interception. This is coaching. Still, if Clifford had had a good fame yesterday, we could well have won. Bottom line is the coaching in terms of preparation and game philosophy. JoePa used to warn about a big play mentality because players begin to depend on it and don't hustle every play. Live by the bond and die from it (or lack of it).
that is totally correct. that INT was on Clifford. the position that Shorter was in was very hard to come back from. Shorter was pulling away from the DB. if this is a good throw it was a TD - assuming that Shorter did not drop the pass.
watching Bama's WR they resemble us. Tua threw a TD pass which is what we need to expect from Sean. the WR just pulled away and never slowed down - pass hit him in stride for TD. many of Sean's passes are causing people like KJ to slow or stop and fight for ball. that is on QB. the pass from Levis the Chisena in BW game is the standard. we have fast WRs and don't want them slowing down.
Somebody mentioned it in the game thread, but I believe he'd be better suited at safety as well. The future is Ellis and Wilson. They seem to get coached different, perhaps skill set is why.
Additionally, I feel like our secondary alignment at times is based under the assumption that our DL is going to disrupt plays more than they have in our games vs stronger opponents. I am left wondering where our Nickel package went as we seem intent on covering third and fourth WRs with LBs and safetys. Curious why we never dropped a DE into zone on any of the quick slants they burnt us with.
Parsons was our best blitzer yesterday. Why did we not let him eat on the middle any more than he did?
Several things in play:
* He does need to catch those passes better
but also:
* RR should have had him more involved from jump street so he was in the groove and worked out bugs against Idaho not MINNY.
* His position coach is horrendous. More drops than 2018 so far this year and the 2018 coach was fired!!!
Frankin's inability attract good coaches is killing our development and will get him fired.
We all crushed Fleming but he was smart... Hartenstine vs our joke.... Smart move young man.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Cliff’s a solid QB and continues to grow, but had an off game. Off days happen. Hope the kids aren’t too disappointed and bounce back quickly.
Secondary look utterly lost. To many Minny WRs wide open on 3rd and long. For the most part throws were uncontested. Minny OL gobbled up our DL. Can’t blame Shorter on that horribly thrown ball from Clifford. At best he could have knocked it down. But it was a terrible ball.
