Joe, Penn State Lies.

[PSUCYCLING]

Victim 2, Allan Meyers DID NOT testify at Jerry’s trial in 2012 - the prosecutor said he was known only to God. However, he was known to all parties and had told Sandusky’s attorney’s PI that nothing happened. You can deduce why the prosecution wouldn’t call him as a witness.

Four years later, he did testify at a retrial hearing for Sandusky where again he said nothing happened in the shower, but, after thinking about it some more, and cashing a settlement check, he may have been abused by Sandusky around that time.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Contrast this with the Nasser case- all of his victims were extremely firm with what happened to them.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

Here’s a better breakdown of Allan Meyer’s testimony from 2016.

Boy In The Shower Says He Can't Remember 34 Times

By Ralph Cipriano for BigTrial.net Allan Myers, the boy in the Penn State showers that Mike McQueary allegedly saw being raped by Jerry S...

www.bigtrial.net

 

[bdgan]

OK. If Det. Spanier, Det. Curley, and Det. Joe, after hearing the initial facts, thought that no further inquiry was needed, then the 2011 blowup should never have occurred.

McQueary said that after meeting and telling Joe what he witnessed the night before in Feb. 2009, at about 9:30PM, Joe put his face in his hands and told McQueary to give him a "few days" to think about it.

What was there to think about???

That's a very ignorant post.

• None of those 3 were detectives.
• The department of public welfare had detectives investigate 1998. To the best of my knowledge those were the only detectives and they came up empty. IIRC Governor Corbett was involved with this for years.
• I don't know what your talking about saying that Joe sent McQueary away to think about it. Fact is Joe called Curley the very next day to tell him what MM said (as best he could) and C/S set up a meeting to talk to MM.
• That doesn't mean that MM told them about sexual assault. They said that MM didn't tell them about sexual assault. Dad, Dranov, and Joe said the same thing. You're assuming that some lied and others were telling the truth even though they all said similar things.
• I'm not sure anybody has suggested that the PSU administration handled things appropriately. I have personally been very critical about their poor documentation of what MM told them and about the reason for their response. There would be no question what was said any why the response if this would have been handled appropriately.

 

[NoBareFeet]

That doesn't mean that MM told them about sexual assault. They said that MM didn't tell them about sexual assault. Dad, Dranov, and Joe said the same thing. You're assuming that some lied and others were telling the truth even though they all said similar things.

You are correct that Mike's dad, Dranov, and Joe said they weren't told of sexual assault. You know who else said that? MIKE HIMSELF, in an email to the AG! But he was told to keep that under wraps because it would hurt their case. Incredible that more wasn't made of that. I can't remember if that information was known at trial. Guessing it wasn't.

Admittedly this involves some speculation, but to me it is clear what happened here. Mike made his report to Joe about the shower incident. No one (including Mike) thought it was THAT big of a deal. Years later, Mike is told by prosecutors that Jerry is some big time serial pedophile, and that TOTALLY changes Mike's interpretation of the shower incident. Mike was needed by the prosecution to put Jerry away, so what Mike "saw" became much, much bigger than it actually was.

 

[Obliviax]

You are correct that Mike's dad, Dranov, and Joe said they weren't told of sexual assault. You know who else said that? MIKE HIMSELF, in an email to the AG! But he was told to keep that under wraps because it would hurt their case. Incredible that more wasn't made of that. I can't remember if that information was known at trial. Guessing it wasn't.

Admittedly this involves some speculation, but to me it is clear what happened here. Mike made his report to Joe about the shower incident. No one (including Mike) thought it was THAT big of a deal. Years later, Mike is told by prosecutors that Jerry is some big time serial pedophile, and that TOTALLY changes Mike's interpretation of the shower incident. Mike was needed by the prosecution to put Jerry away, so what Mike "saw" became much, much bigger than it actually was.

that isn't true. Why, then, would Dranov not be charged with the same charges as the others?

 

[NoBareFeet]

that isn't true. Why, then, would Dranov not be charged with the same charges as the others?

What part isn't true?

 

[Obliviax]

What part isn't true?

That MM reported that he saw sexual assault. If that were the case, why not interview then and why go to a football coach? What MM reported is he heard, what he thought were, sexual rhythmic sounds and then saw JS through a mirror standing uncomfortably close to a child in the shower. When he looked at them directly, they were NOT standing close to each other. It is like he saw a car parked in a public park after hours and suspected people were screwing in the car. That is a reasonable opinion, but not fact.

 

[NoBareFeet]

That MM reported that he saw sexual assault. If that were the case, why not interview then and why go to a football coach? What MM reported is he heard, what he thought were, sexual rhythmic sounds and then saw JS through a mirror standing uncomfortably close to a child in the shower. When he looked at them directly, they were NOT standing close to each other. It is like he saw a car parked in a public park after hours and suspected people were screwing in the car. That is a reasonable opinion, but not fact.

I think you totally misinterpreted what I wrote. Not what I was saying at all. The opposite, really.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

That MM reported that he saw sexual assault. If that were the case, why not interview then and why go to a football coach? What MM reported is he heard, what he thought were, sexual rhythmic sounds and then saw JS through a mirror standing uncomfortably close to a child in the shower. When he looked at them directly, they were NOT standing close to each other. It is like he saw a car parked in a public park after hours and suspected people were screwing in the car. That is a reasonable opinion, but not fact.

Dranov is a trained mandatory reporter - he knows the requirements. For the cover up theory to hold water, you have to believe:

1. Mike McQueary told Dranov a watered down story that didn’t rise to a reportable incident. This was testified to by Dranov as he said
2. McQueary told a Paterno a watered down story (this is true as McQueary said as much).
3. McQueary told Spanier and Schultz a much more graphic story that should have been reported

 

[NoBareFeet]

Dranov is a trained mandatory reporter - he knows the requirements. For the cover up theory to hold water, you have to believe:

1. Mike McQueary told Dranov a watered down story that didn’t rise to a reportable incident. This was testified to by Dranov as he said
2. McQueary told a Paterno a watered down story (this is true as McQueary said as much).
3. McQueary told Spanier and Schultz a much more graphic story that should have been reported

This is correct, and shows the coverup theory is completely absurd.

I think my theory that Mike didn't report a much more graphic story until AFTER he was told by prosecutors that Jerry was a serial pedophile makes much more sense. Mike thought he was doing everyone a favor by embellishing his story. What he ended up doing was throwing Joe, Curley, Schultz, and Spanier under the bus, and possibly put an innocent man in prison..

 

[PSU20]

That's a very ignorant post.

• None of those 3 were detectives.
• The department of public welfare had detectives investigate 1998. To the best of my knowledge those were the only detectives and they came up empty. IIRC Governor Corbett was involved with this for years.
• I don't know what your talking about saying that Joe sent McQueary away to think about it. Fact is Joe called Curley the very next day to tell him what MM said (as best he could) and C/S set up a meeting to talk to MM.
• That doesn't mean that MM told them about sexual assault. They said that MM didn't tell them about sexual assault. Dad, Dranov, and Joe said the same thing. You're assuming that some lied and others were telling the truth even though they all said similar things.
• I'm not sure anybody has suggested that the PSU administration handled things appropriately. I have personally been very critical about their poor documentation of what MM told them and about the reason for their response. There would be no question what was said any why the response if this would have been handled appropriately.

No kidding none of those 3 were Detectives, that's why the police should have been called in immediately. Its not up to those 3 to decide if a Felony Sexual Assault was committed on child, on the premises of PSU!

Joe called Curley the next day!!! Was there something wrong with Joe's phone that he could not call him "that day."

Everyone knows who Curley reported to and it wasn't Spanier.

 

[NoBareFeet]

Everyone knows who Curley reported to and it wasn't Spanier.

Geez, then I guess everyone doesn't know, because it WAS Spanier.

 

[bdgan]

You are correct that Mike's dad, Dranov, and Joe said they weren't told of sexual assault. You know who else said that? MIKE HIMSELF, in an email to the AG! But he was told to keep that under wraps because it would hurt their case. Incredible that more wasn't made of that. I can't remember if that information was known at trial. Guessing it wasn't.

Admittedly this involves some speculation, but to me it is clear what happened here. Mike made his report to Joe about the shower incident. No one (including Mike) thought it was THAT big of a deal. Years later, Mike is told by prosecutors that Jerry is some big time serial pedophile, and that TOTALLY changes Mike's interpretation of the shower incident. Mike was needed by the prosecution to put Jerry away, so what Mike "saw" became much, much bigger than it actually was.

I don't think it's fair to say that nobody thought it was that big of a deal. It was obviously enough of a concern for Joe to connect MM with C&S and for them to contact an attorney.

Of course nobody but MM, C, and S know exactly what was said when they met because there was no written record (shame on C&S for that). I believe C&S underestimated the severity of the situation because what they said is similar to what Joe, Dad, & Dranov said.

I also don't believe that there was a conspiracy to cover things up to protect football. If that was the case they would have told Sandusky to never come back on campus because they would dare risk a repeat event. They would have also told MM and everybody else involved to keep their mouths shut. MM said that never happened.

My guess is that MM was bothered by what he "experienced" but couldn't be sure since he didn't see it (he heard sounds but the boy wasn't in distress). My guess is he didn't want to accuse JS unfairly so he used soft language and the administrators interpreted that to be inappropriate contact but not sexual assault. That's my guess because it makes the most logical sense (Occam's razor). But none of this speculation would have been necessary if C&S had done their job and documented MM's whistleblower report.

 

[PSU20]

Geez, then I guess everyone doesn't know, because it WAS Spanier.

Yeah, sure. Keep burying your head in the sand if that's what makes you happy!

 

[bdgan]

Joe called Curley the next day!!! Was there something wrong with Joe's phone that he could not call him "that day."

Was there something wrong with MM's phone that he didn't call police that night and he didn't call Joe until the next day (or much later)?

 

[WHCANole]

That, and a monumentally tainted jury pool. With the media frenzy around this case being as it was, there was absolutely zero chance Jerry was going to be exonerated. A very similar injustice would happen years later to Derek Chauvin.

Jerry was guilty and that much is quite clear. If anything the jury pool was tainted towards Jerry since as a local god it would take many accusers to get him. They found the courage to come forward when they learned about the others. AS for Derek Chauvin? That was also clear murder. Good Grief! It was on video!

 

[WHCANole]

both used to get ahead politically. And what can be worse than child molestation or racism? Who would argue that?

I don't think prosecuting a local god gets you ahead politically. It ended Corbett's political career.

 

[RussianEagle]

You're assuming that MM witnessed sexual assault, that MM didn't tell Dranov or his own family about sexual assault, that he DID tell PSU administrators about sexual assault, and that those same administrators conspired to cover it up. Those are some big assumptions.

Also IIRC the victim was unknown and he remains unknown to this day.

The PA OAG knows damn well who the “victim” was. They are just covering up some major misconduct and a very shady deal where they and Sandusky’s attorneys mutually decided to not call the most important witness in the case (at the from the public perspective) to the witness stand.

 

[WHCANole]

So you are saying Mike covered up child sex abuse to protect his place in the football program? Shocking allegation...

No, I'm saying he went to Paterno to protect himself from institutional retribution. Which he got by telling Joe about it.

 

[WHCANole]

You have that completely backwards. Joe was saying he was NEVER told of inappropriate sexual activity going on.

Yes he was told and testified to that TWICE.

Mike McQueary came and said he was in the shower and that Jerry Sandusky was in the shower with another person,....that there was some inappropriate sexual activity going on.

 

[NoBareFeet]

If anything the jury pool was tainted towards Jerry since as a local god

You must not have been alive during 2011. Or more likely you are arguing absurd points just to be an idiot.

And this "Jerry as a local God" thing is TOTALLY overblown. Jerry was known in State College in 2010. Local God? No. I remember being at the Student Bookstore where Jerry was there doing a book signing (maybe in the mid 2000s?) the morning of a game. People everywhere. And Jerry was there sitting at his table and there was no one there to get a book, or a signature, or a picture. Nothing. He was sitting there by himself. I remember feeling sorry for him. So local God? No.

 

[RussianEagle]

Was there something wrong with MM's phone that he didn't call police that night and he didn't call Joe until the next day (or much later)?

I think the emails show Joe actually did call Curley that very same day. When Joe stated he waited because he “didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend”, he was actually misremembering what he actually did. That makes absolutely no sense if Joe was in cover up mode.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

I don't think it's fair to say that nobody thought it was that big of a deal. It was obviously enough of a concern for Joe to connect MM with C&S and for them to contact an attorney.

Of course nobody but MM, C, and S know exactly what was said when they met because there was no written record (shame on C&S for that). I believe C&S underestimated the severity of the situation because what they said is similar to what Joe, Dad, & Dranov said.

I also don't believe that there was a conspiracy to cover things up to protect football. If that was the case they would have told Sandusky to never come back on campus because they would dare risk a repeat event. They would have also told MM and everybody else involved to keep their mouths shut. MM said that never happened.

My guess is that MM was bothered by what he "experienced" but couldn't be sure since he didn't see it (he heard sounds but the boy wasn't in distress). My guess is he didn't want to accuse JS unfairly so he used soft language and the administrators interpreted that to be inappropriate contact but not sexual assault. That's my guess because it makes the most logical sense (Occam's razor). But none of this speculation would have been necessary if C&S had done their job and documented MM's whistleblower report.

I agree with this take. Curley also talked with with Second Mile brass about this incident, so no, it wasn’t a coverup. We are also looking at things through a lens of post Catholic Church, Boy Scouts, USA Gymnastics and Swimming, and Sandusky scandals. Now, anything that is close, people think first to call CPS. Back then, not so much.

 

[WHCANole]

Was there something wrong with MM's phone that he didn't call police that night and he didn't call Joe until the next day (or much later)?

Not his phone but his head. Seeing a local god molesting a boy would mess most people up. This wasn't some random pervert off the street but rather the second most beloved figure in SC. He went to Joe for protection.

 

[RussianEagle]

Geez, then I guess everyone doesn't know, because it WAS Spanier.

And licensed Child Psychologist Jack Raykowitz, whose solution was that Jerry “wear swim trunks next time”

 

[WHCANole]

Victim 2, Allan Meyers DID NOT testify at Jerry’s trial in 2012 - the prosecutor said he was known only to God. However, he was known to all parties and had told Sandusky’s attorney’s PI that nothing happened. You can deduce why the prosecution wouldn’t call him as a witness.

But the defense did not call him either and knew about him.

Four years later, he did testify at a retrial hearing for Sandusky where again he said nothing happened in the shower, but, after thinking about it some more, and cashing a settlement check, he may have been abused by Sandusky around that time.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

He probably was abused by Sandusky and might have been in a shower too. Sandusky abused other victims in the showers as that was his MO. Doesn't make him Victim 2.

Contrast this with the Nasser case- all of his victims were extremely firm with what happened to them.

All of Sandusky's victims were strong in their testimony as well. He is guilty.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

Here’s Dranov’s testimony during the Sandusky trial. Notice where the prosecutor objects to the defense asking Dranov if McQueary described anything sexual to him.

Dr Dranov's Testimony - Transcript

A blog about Searching for the Truth about the SANDUSKY Scandal: Power, Lies, and Deception. Due Process for Penn State and JVP

notpsu.blogspot.com

 

[RussianEagle]

Dranov is a trained mandatory reporter - he knows the requirements. For the cover up theory to hold water, you have to believe:

1. Mike McQueary told Dranov a watered down story that didn’t rise to a reportable incident. This was testified to by Dranov as he said
2. McQueary told a Paterno a watered down story (this is true as McQueary said as much).
3. McQueary told Spanier and Schultz a much more graphic story that should have been reported

One piece of evidence to consider is it is clear Gary Schultz thought the issue was a much bigger crisis before taking to McQueary (Emailing police chief Tom Harmon, speaking to attorney Wendell Courtney) and much less of a crisis after speaking to Mike. That is very evident Mike did not tell Gary or Tim anything that rose to sex abuse. And if Gary was in cover up mode, why not only use school email, but print out and file the emails?

 

[WHCANole]

You must not have been alive during 2011. Or more likely you are arguing absurd points just to be an idiot.

And this "Jerry as a local God" thing is TOTALLY overblown. Jerry was known in State College in 2010. Local God? No. I remember being at the Student Bookstore where Jerry was there doing a book signing (maybe in the mid 2000s?) the morning of a game. People everywhere. And Jerry was there sitting at his table and there was no one there to get a book, or a signature, or a picture. Nothing. He was sitting there by himself. I remember feeling sorry for him. So local God? No.

Yeah he was. Even had his image on the "hero mural" in SC. Of course, now that he's in prison nobody ever heard of him 🙄

 

[WHCANole]

And licensed Child Psychologist Jack Raykowitz, whose solution was that Jerry “wear swim trunks next time”

As opposed to the licensed Child Psychologist Alycia Chambers who told PSU in 1998 that Jerry was a pedo?

 

[WHCANole]

Here’s Dranov’s testimony during the Sandusky trial. Notice where the prosecutor objects to the defense asking Dranov if McQueary described anything sexual to him.

Dr Dranov's Testimony - Transcript

A blog about Searching for the Truth about the SANDUSKY Scandal: Power, Lies, and Deception. Due Process for Penn State and JVP

notpsu.blogspot.com

Dranov says "I didn't use the term did you see a sexual act. I kept saying what did you see." this fits my points well.

 

[WHCANole]

One piece of evidence to consider is it is clear Gary Schultz thought the issue was a much bigger crisis before taking to McQueary (Emailing police chief Tom Harmon, speaking to attorney Wendell Courtney)

And therefore belies the claim he just thought it was "horseplay"

and much less of a crisis after speaking to Mike. That is very evident Mike did not tell Gary or Tim anything that rose to sex abuse.

Not really. In fact Gary mentioned that in his GJ testimony that Mike told him it was sexually inappropriate and way over the line. Courtney advised Gary to report it.

And if Gary was in cover up mode, why not only use school email, but print out and file the emails?

Nixon recorded his crimes on a tape recorder but never figured anyone would get them. I think Gary kept them to cover his ass and show Curley and most importantly Spanier was aware of it and approved not contacting police.

 

[DrJC]

I agree. I think Curley and Schultz concluded that nothing could be done given a) the delay in the report from McQueary who didn't report it until the next day to Joe. C&S didn't hear anything for at least one more day. b) given that timeline, they couldn't find the kid and all physical evidence was gone c) TSM told them they had no records of what JS was doing and d) McQueary's recounting had no hard evidence and didn't match exactly what he told JoePa.

Having said that, they should have reported it to some kind of law enforcement given the 1998 accusation and investigation. Maybe they thought "here we go again, another baseless time-waster" or maybe they thought the police wouldn't be able to do anything either and let it go. Maybe they thought if this went public, it would be really bad for PSU. Regardless, they didn't do enough but they didn't break any laws. They were charged with several felonies and after being hounded for five years, pleaded guilty to low-level misdemeanors to make it stop (Curly, I know, was ill).

The trial against Spanier was a joke. They brought 5 charges and got a low misdemeanor. The jury foreman said it was Friday afternoon and all of the jurors wanted to acquit but one. To appease her and get home on a Friday, they agreed to find him guilty of the lowest charge possible.

But Joe did nothing wrong. Anyone who claims he did, is just making stuff up.

Please remember that Joe followed the policy for reporting this type of incident-that is he reported it to his immediate superiors. That is the protocol in PA. In fact, this manner of dealing with incidents of alleged abuse has become the standard at other schools. You report it to those who are trained to deal with it. Joe was not a witness, but the recipient of heresay, which he reported and required McQueary (the witness) to report as well. Incidents like this often catch everyone off guard and in a state of disbelief.

 

[Obliviax]

Please remember that Joe followed the policy for reporting this type of incident-that is he reported it to his immediate superiors. That is the protocol in PA. In fact, this manner of dealing with incidents of alleged abuse has become the standard at other schools. You report it to those who are trained to deal with it. Joe was not a witness, but the recipient of heresay, which he reported and required McQueary (the witness) to report as well. Incidents like this often catch everyone off guard and in a state of disbelief.

totally agree, in fact, I posted that this is the NCAA's guidance/policy for coaches who have allegations reported to them. They launched an investigation after PSU and came out with the guidance you stated after three years of research.

 

[marshall23]

Only one individual is paid to post here. $$$$$ don't engage the paid shill

 

[bdgan]

I think the emails show Joe actually did call Curley that very same day. When Joe stated he waited because he “didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend”, he was actually misremembering what he actually did. That makes absolutely no sense if Joe was in cover up mode.

None of us know exactly who said what to who. That might even include those directly involved since they were relying on their 10 year old memories.

 

[RussianEagle]

None of us know exactly who said what to who. That might even include those directly involved since they were relying on their 10 year old memories.

True, that’s why I believe the actions of the “boy in the shower” post 2001 are much more relevant to assigning blame in the case rather than worrying about who said what in old conversations that no doubt all parties have misremembered details from.

For instance, a Deadspin article once tried to claim that even if there was no actual sexual contact in the shower, Joe Paterno still should be condemned because “McQueary told him about an assault”. I find that reasoning absolutely absurd.

 

[RussianEagle]

Here’s a better breakdown of Allan Meyer’s testimony from 2016.

Boy In The Shower Says He Can't Remember 34 Times

By Ralph Cipriano for BigTrial.net Allan Myers, the boy in the Penn State showers that Mike McQueary allegedly saw being raped by Jerry S...

www.bigtrial.net

His vagueness is perfectly consistent with someone who doesn’t want to admit he was not touched sexually which may risk his PSU settlement money, and someone who doesn’t want to explicitly claim Jerry touched him sexually and risk a perjury charge.

I do acknowledge that Allan may honestly believe Jerry was grooming him with the showers, so he may not be technically lying when he claimed to be an abuse victim. But I think it’s clear based on all the evidence there was never any sexual contact between him and Sandusky.

 

[joeaubie21]

Bottom line: A boy about 10 yo


A young boy, approximately 10 yo was assaulted in the locker room of the Lasch, but police were not notified, nor was McQueary interviewed for almost 10 years.

Who made the decision not to investigate the incident, was it Spanier, Curley, or Joe??? No wonder there was no paper trail of the alleged assault.

As a citizen you are not in a position to decide if an investigation into a serious criminal act should be conducted. That is the job of the police and DA.

Fa-wart!

 

[joeaubie21]

No kidding none of those 3 were Detectives, that's why the police should have been called in immediately. Its not up to those 3 to decide if a Felony Sexual Assault was committed on child, on the premises of PSU!

Joe called Curley the next day!!! Was there something wrong with Joe's phone that he could not call him "that day."

Everyone knows who Curley reported to and it wasn't Spanier.

E-e-ee-e-ee-ee-e-e!!!