both happened in MI, but too late nowDo you mean your local government did contact tracing, or that your organization did it? What kind of organization do you work for?
I work for a large global automotive supplier
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both happened in MI, but too late nowDo you mean your local government did contact tracing, or that your organization did it? What kind of organization do you work for?
I don't think it happened very much or for very long, anywhere.both happened in MI, but too late now
Funny, none of the experts seem to be saying that is true. So, all those folks in Queens are wasting their time? LOL.
Had we done the first part right, you would not be whining about masks and vents. But that is ok. They are going to F that up too. Then you'll be telling me its not masks, it's coffins. LOL. It IS pretty hard to believe. Do you suppose those 160 healthcare workers in Boston came down with it all at the very same time? Jesus.
Agreed, when testing started it was too late for contact tracing to be effectiveI don't think it happened very much or for very long, anywhere.
Do you mean your local government did contact tracing, or that your organization did it? What kind of organization do you work for?
Oh, I am sure it was right around the time this board full of Faucis said they should. Testing is pointless.My organization did -- it's a government agency. But I also know at the municipal and county level, many health departments are actively contact-tracing in instances which somebody tests positive. To include health departments in some pretty populated urban areas.
At what point they cease doing so, I don't know.
I am not going to argue that New Orleans or the Florida spring breakers or something else won't cause another 'hot spot' in fact I am certain they will. My disagreement with you is I think testing at this point has limited value.
You are either positive or negative.
Unless you are hospital level sick the prescription is the SAME. Stay home, and stay away from people. If you are hospital level sick with or without Corona go to the hospital
Oh, I am sure it was right around the time this board full of Faucis said they should. Testing is pointless.
When people engage in happy talk, they REDUCE the ability of others to go on.Demlion,
Look in the mirror lately? For those that have made the challenge, I am one on the front line and have worked on bigger nastier challenges than this “crisis”. The COVID-19 virus needs to be respected...not sensationalized. People need more doses of hope than the constant barrage of fear being pushed by the media 24/7 to sell advertising time or print space. This illness will be overcome from multiple flanks and the biggest attack on it will come from natural immunity. I encourage the vaccine to be completed and produced because it will be a useful road map to variants of the future. The Human spirit is to survive, survival rates increase with positive attitude, positive attitude begets unrealized successes. In other words if your attitude is solid your ability to succeed supersedes that which is to just survive.
Bravo! - and thank you for your work during this pandemic.Demlion,
Look in the mirror lately? For those that have made the challenge, I am one on the front line and have worked on bigger nastier challenges than this “crisis”. The COVID-19 virus needs to be respected...not sensationalized. People need more doses of hope than the constant barrage of fear being pushed by the media 24/7 to sell advertising time or print space. This illness will be overcome from multiple flanks and the biggest attack on it will come from natural immunity. I encourage the vaccine to be completed and produced because it will be a useful road map to variants of the future. The Human spirit is to survive, survival rates increase with positive attitude, positive attitude begets unrealized successes. In other words if your attitude is solid your ability to succeed supersedes that which is to just survive.
Testing after symptoms is like identifying an active forest fire. Testing before the symptoms is like identifying an ember carried by the wind. The value of testing before symptoms is you can more effectively quash the ember before it flares to a new fire (i.e. prevention). Testing after symptoms is more a mitigation of what has occurred. Neither type prevents the person from the infection but one can slow the spread. Not everyone can stay quarantined for 14 days so pre-symptomatic testing would still be beneficial to identify people in essential jobs (care providers, doctors, food service, police, delivery workers etc) that should be sent home as early as possible. It would have had a much bigger impact earlier, but still is useful.
When people engage in happy talk, they REDUCE the ability of others to go on.
“There is no worse mistake in public leadership than to hold out false hopes soon to be swept away. The . . . people can face peril or misfortune with fortitude and buoyancy, but they bitterly resent being deceived or finding that those responsible for their affairs are themselves dwelling in a fool’s paradise.”
Winston S. Churchill, The Second World War, Vol. 3 [1951]
Testing after symptoms is like identifying an active forest fire. Testing before the symptoms is like identifying an ember carried by the wind. The value of testing before symptoms is you can more effectively quash the ember before it flares to a new fire (i.e. prevention). Testing after symptoms is more a mitigation of what has occurred. Neither type prevents the person from the infection but one can slow the spread. Not everyone can stay quarantined for 14 days so pre-symptomatic testing would still be beneficial to identify people in essential jobs (care providers, doctors, food service, police, delivery workers etc) that should be sent home as early as possible. It would have had a much bigger impact earlier, but still is useful.
I am a fanatic when happy-talk clowns are lining up to get my loved ones killed.Demlion,
So let me understand that you of all people want to quote Churchill? Really try this one out
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject” or “Do not let us speak of darker days. Let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days, these are great days...the greatest days our country has ever lived.”
Crazytoadie,
let’s breakdown your theory for people who are asymptomatic, carrying the virus, but not yet shedding at the threshold of the sensitivity of the test to test positive. They go about their life incubate, never present symptoms feel they are doing their part and still infect 1000s. We can play this circular argument all day.
Demlion believes this is all Trump's fault. You never hear him placing blame on any Democrat, He must have missed these quotes/decisions from NYC leaders.Demlion,
So let me understand that you of all people want to quote Churchill? Really try this one out
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject” or “Do not let us speak of darker days. Let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days, these are great days...the greatest days our country has ever lived.”
Funny, none of the experts seem to be saying that is true. So, all those folks in Queens are wasting their time? LOL.
Had we done the first part right, you would not be whining about masks and vents. But that is ok. They are going to F that up too. Then you'll be telling me its not masks, it's coffins. LOL. It IS pretty hard to believe. Do you suppose those 160 healthcare workers in Boston came down with it all at the very same time? Jesus.
Ok, so your advice is better for them than the advice of the public health officials and the other countless Faucis on this board, even? Got it. BTW, they should not have had to pick.Queens, unless these folks want a reason to go out and about in public I am saying they are wasting there time. Again tell me the difference for a shelter in place location like Queens, what should people who are a-symptomatic or have mild symptoms do differently?
Health care workers in Boston. of course they didn't get infected at the same time what is your point. Let's just say 30 got tested and infected about the same time. Should the other 130 have then stayed home and not worked? I have no idea what their situation is/was but i'd bet money if you rolled back the clock a month and said you can test kits or more protective gear [masks and shields] and more treatment facilities [beds and ventilators] I know which they would have picked.
Go back down to your bunker.This is eventually going to get everyone I think at this point.. Heard this morning even if you survive it damages your lungs where something down the line may kill you.
Go back down to your bunker.
Hmm your analogy.
. "Testing before symptoms is like an ember". Ok, but you have no way of putting that ember out. All you can do is see if the ember catches the forest on fire. To carry your analogy out. For the forest fire you have no water to put it out. [medicines] all you can do is clear out the forest ahead [self quarantine and social distance] so the fire dies out with nothing else to burn. For the ember you could do the same thing in case the ember catches the forest on fire. Which is exactly what shelter in place asks people to do.
Part 2. - as i said in another post, i find it hard to imagine we don't have the ability to test essential providers at this point in time.
Finally for you folks who believe testing is still critical. You do know that unless you are sheltering in place you would need to get tested every day becausxe every encounter is a possible infection.
What we need back to the analogy is water, spray from planes etc to fight the fire. i.e. masks ventilators, anti viral therapies, and hospital beds.
I’m not naive. I work on the front lines where I can’t quarantine myself from it like others. I know it’s bad. But your incessant doomsday apocalyptic worse case scenarios are old. You can’t and won’t acknowledge any positive information no matter what.Are you this naive? US has passed China is total number of cases and we are at 93K now with nearly 8K last night.. Our death total will most likely be higher too in the long run, and even if you don't die there is proof that long term damage of your lungs and other organs happens. But keep thinking this is nothing, and hoping warm weather will kill it.
I’ll try again. Cuomo said today that the cases are doubling every 4 days now compared to 2 and 3 days earlier. Still sucks but looks like it is slowing.This is eventually going to get everyone I think at this point.. Heard this morning even if you survive it damages your lungs where something down the line may kill you.
I think their system is now broken. Even their recovery/death ratio is trending the wrong way. Bad news
I’ll try again. Cuomo said today that the cases are doubling every 4 days now compared to 2 and 3 days earlier. Still sucks but looks like it is slowing.
I have mixed emotions on this. I am glad you "blamed" both administrations. My mixed feelings are as follows,
do we need to be prepared for every possible doomsday scenario that might come forward? It would sure be nice but is it practical? Does it make sense to have triple or quadruple the number of ICU beds available even if they don't get used, have 2 Billion N 95 masks laying around, 100 million test kits, and 50,000 ventilators for a "just in case". I would love it if we did but I don't know.
One of the under reported IMO great stories here is how quickly major corp[orations have jumped in on this. Ford/GE -ventilators, Ford/GM 3D printing masks and making face shields, Ford/GM working with Medtronic to make more ventilators. I just heard yesterday the hotel association representing all 56,000 hotels has had 12,000 hotels [who are obviously empty] offer there hotels as quarantining locations if needed.
My thought is by mid to late April we will have more than adequate medical supplies of all kinds. That is about an 8 week delay from optimal. Tragic for those going without right now for sure but probably practical.
This looks like a once every hundred years situation [think Spanish flu] For those thinking N1H1, SARS, MERS or Ebola, the fact that we got our hands around them pretty quickly may have made us over confidant.
You can't really build a 6 lane highway when a 3 lane works fine 23 hours a day just to accommodate that 1 hour of rush hour. Or can/should you? Unfortunately, we are right smack in the middle of a health care rush hour.
Wrong
To put an ember out you don’t need water. You simply step on it. That is the equivalent of a personal quarantine for a pre-symptomatic positive test and recommended isolation for anyone that they had contact with until they pass the incubation period.
To put the forest fire out that starts from the ember, you need more than that. You need a combination of water (therapeutics), clearcuts (social distancing), and fire retardants (vaccines). Those are all more challenging and costly. There is a reason why after a fire is doused that firefighters search for embers rather than bulldoze the adjacent houses/trees...it is easier. While the fire is raging then the tracking of embers may be less achievable but you better believe that firefighters in cities are absolutely looking to put out embers that land on adjacent row houses before they extinguish the fire. It’s not a binary choice.
I like those analogies, how about testing is like figuring out which way the wind is blowing so you can direct your resources to the fire you haven't found yet?
The problem with this virus is those treating it end up getting infected. It has to take a toll on those working in the hardest hit. They basically are watching people suffocate to death.I think their system is now broken. Even their recovery/death ratio is trending the wrong way. Bad news
Wrong
To put an ember out you don’t need water. You simply step on it. That is the equivalent of a personal quarantine for a pre-symptomatic positive test and recommended isolation for anyone that they had contact with until they pass the incubation period.
To put the forest fire out that starts from the ember, you need more than that. You need a combination of water (therapeutics), clearcuts (social distancing), and fire retardants (vaccines). Those are all more challenging and costly. There is a reason why after a fire is doused that firefighters search for embers rather than bulldoze the adjacent houses/trees...it is easier. While the fire is raging then the tracking of embers may be less achievable but you better believe that firefighters in cities are absolutely looking to put out embers that land on adjacent row houses before they extinguish the fire. It’s not a binary choice.
That is indeed an interesting point. If you suggested we would start to ship masks ventilators, etc all over the country where we think IT MIGHT be the next hot spot I agree it might make sense. From what I can gather we wouldn't do that UNTIL we started seeing an out break of hospital worthy patients. The problem is this can go from a-symptomatic [just stay home] to life threatening very quickly.I like those analogies, how about testing is like figuring out which way the wind is blowing so you can direct your resources to the fire you haven't found yet?
I’ll try again. Cuomo said today that the cases are doubling every 4 days now compared to 2 and 3 days earlier. Still sucks but looks like it is slowing.
I thought Bill Gates's interview on CNN last night was wonderful. During it, he talked about lessons how his foundation took recommendations from the previous episodes and made a series of recommmendations to governments across the world.. According to Bill, pretty much none of them were implemented but he expects that because of this incident, that will change in the future. Countries will be more than willing to head off any future pandemics.
I thought Bill Gates's interview on CNN last night was wonderful. During it, he talked about lessons how his foundation took recommendations from the previous episodes and made a series of recommmendations to governments across the world.. According to Bill, pretty much none of them were implemented but he expects that because of this incident, that will change in the future. Countries will be more than willing to head off any future pandemics.
you guys are missing my point. It is only like looking from a fire tower if you are going to do nothing ANYWAY until it comes through the trees.Yep, it is like having a fire tower to see where the fire is off in the distance rather than waiting till you see in coming through the trees.
Please differentiate testing from masks ventilators, and hospital beds, in other words things that can help.Yea I think all these Senators and some posters on this site that are willing to die for the economy should put their money where their mouths are and go to the NYC and Boston hospitals and help out. And since they don't need to be tested or masks they should be fine.
Please differentiate testing from masks ventilators, and hospital beds, in other words things that can help.
And don't if you are referring to any of my posts suggest i would sacrifice people for the economy. I for one would favor a nationwide shelter in place. Assume you have it or if you don't will get it if you go out in public. Quick and simple question for those supporting a greater emphasis on testing. If you are not self quarantining how often do you want or should get tested? Daily ,weekly, monthly. We know this thing is very contagious and moves fast.
Read an article today on Quest Diagnostics in Cali. They were handing a lot of the testing. Initially they were two days turn around time till results, then four, now they are >7 days. With this prolonged time for results, hopefully by the time you have symptoms and get tested, and get results the 14 day journey is over.Please differentiate testing from masks ventilators, and hospital beds, in other words things that can help.
And don't if you are referring to any of my posts suggest i would sacrifice people for the economy. I for one would favor a nationwide shelter in place. Assume you have it or if you don't will get it if you go out in public. Quick and simple question for those supporting a greater emphasis on testing. If you are not self quarantining how often do you want or should get tested? Daily ,weekly, monthly. We know this thing is very contagious and moves fast.