Italy still on figurative fire (USA in trouble)
- Thread starter Chickenman Testa
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Once again for millionth time and Doctor Birx addressed this yesterday this is the worst case scenario without doing anything to prevent it.
Without a vaccine we are in a worst case scenario. Do you think American can stay in lockdown for another 12-15 months? No! It’s going to continue to spread. America has taken a heard immunity response to the disease, not that we have a choice.
Drugs like Hrydrochloroquine are our best bet short term. Lessening symptoms is about the only thing we can hope for.
Drugs like Hrydrochloroquine are our best bet short term. Lessening symptoms is about the only thing we can hope for.
Nobody is mentioning 12-15 months. How about we get over the initial hump and reevaluate with real data? Hopefully the summer slows it down and buys some time to find that vaccine. Could you imagine what it would be like right now without a shutdown?
No, we don’t miss your point. It is just backwards thinking because you NEVER do nothing with that information. The action you do from the positive test is to quarantine that person SOONER rather than later. It is about making better decisions based on knowledge than to fly blind.
Your point to quarantine anyway without testing is okay IF everyone can do that but not everyone has that option. A person in a nursing home doesn’t have that option, the ER doctor/nurse doesn’t have that option, the military personnel doesn’t have that option, the truck drivers delivering your food or gas don’t have that option, the grocers and supply chain supporting them don’t have that option, the telecom/energy workers don’t have that option, the paper mill worker, sanitation worker, public water works employee, prisoner guard, prisoner, the pregnant lady delivering her child, the person needing dialysis, the farm workers, the firefighter, the pharmacist, the researcher working on a vaccine, the pharmaceutical worker making your medications, the cop, the undertaker, the postman/FedEx worker, the EMT, the caretakers of the youth & elderly, and on and on...and by extension all of the people that they live with. Individually those people can quarantine if sick, but collectively then cannot do so at the same time. You may have the luxury to stay holed up for a couple weeks or even months but the reality is that a broad quarantine is neither feasible or productive.
Within our lifetime, the HIV/AIDS epidemic is a good example of why testing is important despite the fact that it didn’t initially change the prognosis. It allowed people to take extra precautions when they knew they had the disease to prevent their loved ones and children from getting the death sentence they had. It allowed organizations to safely screen blood for transfusions. It put a light on the problem to keep it in peoples mind. And it gave a measure of peace and comfort to those that worried they had it but ended up not. Those things didn’t cure it but they made it better.
The test isn’t the solution or the cure but it surely is part of the solution or cure. I’m not saying that when limited the test should be given freely as obviously you prioritize to the highest risk but when it is limited then you work to get more tests as soon as reasonably possible so you can use it broadly.
Can we at least agree China's numbers aren't worth a shit. Show me the expert that says you can have almost a straight line increase in infections and deaths and they suddenly stop cold. Nah. I'd like to believe it because it would give us and other countries hope but I don't think so.
ok, i disagree but understand. I happen to believe that all of the essential workers can readily get tested now. Answer this question how often should essential workers who are out and about get tested?
You and i have a different view on how important quarantining is to slow down the spread. Yes it is hard, yes it is a pain but until we build immunities, mfind some treatments or it dies from heat stroke it is only chance.
Your HIV/AIDs testing epidemic is a very poor example for many reasons.
Interesting because i had a conversation early in March before the shit hit the fan with a guy who told me a story that I just assumed was some tinfoil hat explanation.
Lockdown was probably a necessary evil because we had no real clue or accurate data. We've all seen numerous reports or opinions from experts that say the exact opposite about death rates, infection percentages, treatments, best practices, length of time until it begins to subside etc. Nobody really has the answers. One thing I believe is that the economy cannot stay shut down for more than another month no matter what.
I hope not since there's no real evidence that it works.
1) I’d be pleasantly surprised if all essential workers can get tested today,
2) Testing of essential workers would vary by risk. For example, ICU doctors or nurses daily if in contact with coronavirus patient. Maybe twice a week if not. Once or twice a week for staff of nursing homes, prisons, etc. ASAP for anyone that has been in contact with a confirmed case and then at 7 and 14 days. And a confirmed negative test within 24 - 48 hours prior to flying. There might be better ideas or refinements. Again, highest risk gets priority for test and frequency when limits on the testing so as not to delay or deprive more critical samples.
3) If you proactively quarantine, then you don’t develop antibodies. Only those exposed have the antibodies. So you either have to shut the whole country down till it all passes or it will spread again as people travel. If it is still circulating then a quarantine is only good until it is over.
4) The HIV/AIDS example is important. If you don’t test people but just tell them not to have sex, not to come into contact with others bodily fluids, not to give birth, not to donate or receive blood transfusions then you unnecessarily cause more confusion and panic without getting to the problem in a focused way. The progression for most medical problem is a) observe new issue, b) find test or diagnostic to differentiate that issue from others, c) investigate therapies to cure said problem, d) test to confirm if therapy resolved problem e) if not, keep searching for cure or treatment until one succeeds.
5) A nationwide quarantine is extremely expension. It would well exceed the $2 trillion aid package that just past as the stopgap for the past couple weeks of social distancing and non essential closures. For perspective, that would cover 119 tests for each and every American at the current Medicare rate $51.3 for the commercial test.
Just from doctors and patients. No official study.
Oops; another study comes in.
Don't they know this is not proven yet?
HUGE! Second French Study by Dr. Raoult finds Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin Helped EVERY PATIENT in Study Group of 80 Minus One
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/huge-second-french-study-by-dr-raoult-finds-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-helped-every-patient-in-study-group-of-80-minus-one-video/
Don't they know this is not proven yet?
HUGE! Second French Study by Dr. Raoult finds Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin Helped EVERY PATIENT in Study Group of 80 Minus One
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/huge-second-french-study-by-dr-raoult-finds-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-helped-every-patient-in-study-group-of-80-minus-one-video/
Saw on the news tonight where an ER doctor in NYC took it as a prophylaxis and has treated numerous people and has not contracted it. Sounds like he is not the only one.
Just read that the FDA approved a rapid test made by Abbot Labs. Positive results as quick as 5 mins and negative in 13. Pretty major development for testing.
Estimates say around 50%, and many of us will not even realize we are infected. Unfortunately, those with preexisting compromised respiratory or cardiac factors will know they are infected and will be dramatically impacted.
I have seen that something like 25 out of the first 40 patients in Wuhan were connected with the market. So far, that seems like good evidence to me.
The speculation I heard was that someone brought it to the market, where conditions there let it spread. I wanted to hear more explanation but as usual Shannon Bream on Fox did not press and the interview just ended. So we are left hanging. If this started somewhere else, where was that?
That is the one thing I noticed about her. She doesn't seem to dig in to what people say the way Tucker Carlson does. Shannon always tries to end interviews and debates without the parties angry with each other.
I really like the Tucker Carlson show. Always very level headed, probing, and not just a puppet for the Right Wing message. Probably the best monologue introductions available on any network. No bullsh!t, just straight common sense analysis of the issues.
Carlson is the only person in the mainstream media to both accurately report, interview, and seriously examine some very credible UFO incidents during the last two decades. That tells me he reports what he thinks is right without being manipulated much by what his producers might think. Probably the last of his type. The others, outside of Shannon Breem, have an agenda to convey, especially the ones on the other networks.
and Italy’s are likely under-reported at this point as well.
A lot of doctors are using it for there not to be any hope.
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Why do you make posts like this?
We all hope the drug can work, but once again I think you need to defer to the Doctors and scientists here. At least wait to hear back how the sample testing in NY is going. I'm not sure how anyone could draw a line in the sand so fast on this either way....but the few that have...it's not surprising as that is all they know how to do.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-chloroquine-treat-coronavirus/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-chloroquine-treat-coronavirus/
If you search for hydroxychloriquine on Twitter, there are two kinds of tweets. 1) It works great and 2) Trump sucks.
For starters because it's true - and secondly because the spread of anecdotal stories about hydroxychloriquine effectivenesss against the COVID-19 virus being a miracle drug has resulted in a shortage of the drug. That creates REAL problems for people who need the drug to treat existing immune deficiency disorders like lupus.
You, and people like you create real problems for people wanting accurate information not attached to an election.
Blame greedy doctors for hording it, not the people whose only known hope is this drug.
I don't believe your reasons.
Your original post stated "I hope not since there's no real evidence that it works".
Do you not recognize the irony of your use of "hope"? Many, many sick and scared people are using this treatment to save their lives. They're using it because medical providers are prescribing it, and because there is anecdotal evidence, respected doctors who have appeared on television (and yes, even some studies) that the treatment can be effective. And medical people themselves are using it; it's been used safely for over 60 years. It is way more than a shot in the dark.
I hope you'll be a little more careful when you try to show off your great knowledge and command of the truth.
He and Art should play chess and live stream it for us during these times of entertainment starving. Then maybe have a spelling bee to further bring them both back to reality.
Anecdotal stories are not the same thing as "accurate information". In fact they get in the way of real helpful information getting out there by blurring what's real and what's rumor. They also have a negative impact on the health of patients who really need the drug. The anecdotal stories about hydroxychloriquine have created a shortage in the marketplace which means that people like those suffering from immune deficiency diseases like lupus can't get it. Spreading those rumors does not help.
Let's go back to the beginning.
The original post said "Drugs like Hrydrochloroquine are our best bet short term. Lessening symptoms is about the only thing we can hope for."
So I intentionally used "hope" in my response as a grammatical device to counter his point. Nothing ironic about it at all.
The issue is that this "hope" that you talk about has created a shortage in the market place for the drug. There are people with a real need for the drug who now can't get it because of all this "hope" that is being spread around. Where's your empathy for those people? The impact on them is known. The impact on COVID-19 patients is not.
