both happened in MI, but too late now
I work for a large global automotive supplier
Italy still on figurative fire (USA in trouble)
- Thread starter Chickenman Testa
- Start date
I work for a large global automotive supplier
Yea I think all these Senators and some posters on this site that are willing to die for the economy should put their money where their mouths are and go to the NYC and Boston hospitals and help out. And since they don't need to be tested or masks they should be fine.
Agreed, when testing started it was too late for contact tracing to be effective
My organization did -- it's a government agency. But I also know at the municipal and county level, many health departments are actively contact-tracing in instances which somebody tests positive. To include health departments in some pretty populated urban areas.
At what point they cease doing so, I don't know.
Oh, I am sure it was right around the time this board full of Faucis said they should. Testing is pointless.
Testing after symptoms is like identifying an active forest fire. Testing before the symptoms is like identifying an ember carried by the wind. The value of testing before symptoms is you can more effectively quash the ember before it flares to a new fire (i.e. prevention). Testing after symptoms is more a mitigation of what has occurred. Neither type prevents the person from the infection but one can slow the spread. Not everyone can stay quarantined for 14 days so pre-symptomatic testing would still be beneficial to identify people in essential jobs (care providers, doctors, food service, police, delivery workers etc) that should be sent home as early as possible. It would have had a much bigger impact earlier, but still is useful.
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Demlion,
Look in the mirror lately? For those that have made the challenge, I am one on the front line and have worked on bigger nastier challenges than this “crisis”. The COVID-19 virus needs to be respected...not sensationalized. People need more doses of hope than the constant barrage of fear being pushed by the media 24/7 to sell advertising time or print space. This illness will be overcome from multiple flanks and the biggest attack on it will come from natural immunity. I encourage the vaccine to be completed and produced because it will be a useful road map to variants of the future. The Human spirit is to survive, survival rates increase with positive attitude, positive attitude begets unrealized successes. In other words if your attitude is solid your ability to succeed supersedes that which is to just survive.
Look in the mirror lately? For those that have made the challenge, I am one on the front line and have worked on bigger nastier challenges than this “crisis”. The COVID-19 virus needs to be respected...not sensationalized. People need more doses of hope than the constant barrage of fear being pushed by the media 24/7 to sell advertising time or print space. This illness will be overcome from multiple flanks and the biggest attack on it will come from natural immunity. I encourage the vaccine to be completed and produced because it will be a useful road map to variants of the future. The Human spirit is to survive, survival rates increase with positive attitude, positive attitude begets unrealized successes. In other words if your attitude is solid your ability to succeed supersedes that which is to just survive.
When people engage in happy talk, they REDUCE the ability of others to go on.
“There is no worse mistake in public leadership than to hold out false hopes soon to be swept away. The . . . people can face peril or misfortune with fortitude and buoyancy, but they bitterly resent being deceived or finding that those responsible for their affairs are themselves dwelling in a fool’s paradise.”
Winston S. Churchill, The Second World War, Vol. 3 [1951]
Crazytoadie,
let’s breakdown your theory for people who are asymptomatic, carrying the virus, but not yet shedding at the threshold of the sensitivity of the test to test positive. They go about their life incubate, never present symptoms feel they are doing their part and still infect 1000s. We can play this circular argument all day.
let’s breakdown your theory for people who are asymptomatic, carrying the virus, but not yet shedding at the threshold of the sensitivity of the test to test positive. They go about their life incubate, never present symptoms feel they are doing their part and still infect 1000s. We can play this circular argument all day.
Demlion,
So let me understand that you of all people want to quote Churchill? Really try this one out
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject” or “Do not let us speak of darker days. Let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days, these are great days...the greatest days our country has ever lived.”
So let me understand that you of all people want to quote Churchill? Really try this one out
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject” or “Do not let us speak of darker days. Let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days, these are great days...the greatest days our country has ever lived.”
Hmm your analogy.
. "Testing before symptoms is like an ember". Ok, but you have no way of putting that ember out. All you can do is see if the ember catches the forest on fire. To carry your analogy out. For the forest fire you have no water to put it out. [medicines] all you can do is clear out the forest ahead [self quarantine and social distance] so the fire dies out with nothing else to burn. For the ember you could do the same thing in case the ember catches the forest on fire. Which is exactly what shelter in place asks people to do.
Part 2. - as i said in another post, i find it hard to imagine we don't have the ability to test essential providers at this point in time.
Finally for you folks who believe testing is still critical. You do know that unless you are sheltering in place you would need to get tested every day becausxe every encounter is a possible infection.
What we need back to the analogy is water, spray from planes etc to fight the fire. i.e. masks ventilators, anti viral therapies, and hospital beds.
I am a fanatic when happy-talk clowns are lining up to get my loved ones killed.
I’m not arguing it is perfect just that it is better than only testing symptomatic. If you’d like to argue it isn’t better, than you could make that argument and I’ll rebut it. Otherwise, we can agree that it isn’t the panacea at this point but still is useful.
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Demlion believes this is all Trump's fault. You never hear him placing blame on any Democrat, He must have missed these quotes/decisions from NYC leaders.
Carlson criticized New York City health commissioner Dr. Oxiris Barbot, among others, who dismissed the incoming threat of the coronavirus in February.
"The risk to New Yorkers from coronavirus is low and ... our preparedness as a city is very high," Barbot said at a Feb. 2 press conference supporting the Chinatown Lunar New Year Parade and Festival. "There is no reason not to take the subway, not to take a bus, not to go out to your favorite restaurant and certainly not to miss the parade next Sunday [Feb. 9]."
Bill de Blasio said Saturday he plans to keep schools in the country's largest school system open as long as possible, standing in stark contrast to the majority of the country's largest city school districts and governors in more than a dozen states who have shuttered their entire K-12 education systems to stem the spread of the coronavirus..
"We are worried about a cascading effect," he said during an MSNBC interview Saturday morning.
De Blasio's decision to keep New York City's schools open goes against guidance released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which recommended that all schools close for a period of six to eight weeks, especially in states with high numbers of cases.
"What are these kids going to do?" de Blasio asked. "Do we really believe these kids will hole up in their rooms for a month?"
In all likelihood, he said, they'll go out and play with their friends, which entirely defeats the purpose of closing schools in the first place. At least in school, the mayor said, students can be accounted for and practice proper hygiene.
"There are more than 400,000 teenagers in New York City public schools," he said. "Do you really want 400,000 teenagers at home alone?"
De Blasio said he hasn't ruled out closing the schools if it comes to that, but that right now, "we're trying to hold the line."
This is eventually going to get everyone I think at this point.. Heard this morning even if you survive it damages your lungs where something down the line may kill you.
Queens, unless these folks want a reason to go out and about in public I am saying they are wasting there time. Again tell me the difference for a shelter in place location like Queens, what should people who are a-symptomatic or have mild symptoms do differently?
Health care workers in Boston. of course they didn't get infected at the same time what is your point. Let's just say 30 got tested and infected about the same time. Should the other 130 have then stayed home and not worked? I have no idea what their situation is/was but i'd bet money if you rolled back the clock a month and said you can test kits or more protective gear [masks and shields] and more treatment facilities [beds and ventilators] I know which they would have picked.
Ok, so your advice is better for them than the advice of the public health officials and the other countless Faucis on this board, even? Got it. BTW, they should not have had to pick.
Are you this naive? US has passed China is total number of cases and we are at 93K now with nearly 8K last night.. Our death total will most likely be higher too in the long run, and even if you don't die there is proof that long term damage of your lungs and other organs happens. But keep thinking this is nothing, and hoping warm weather will kill it.
Wrong
To put an ember out you don’t need water. You simply step on it. That is the equivalent of a personal quarantine for a pre-symptomatic positive test and recommended isolation for anyone that they had contact with until they pass the incubation period.
To put the forest fire out that starts from the ember, you need more than that. You need a combination of water (therapeutics), clearcuts (social distancing), and fire retardants (vaccines). Those are all more challenging and costly. There is a reason why after a fire is doused that firefighters search for embers rather than bulldoze the adjacent houses/trees...it is easier. While the fire is raging then the tracking of embers may be less achievable but you better believe that firefighters in cities are absolutely looking to put out embers that land on adjacent row houses before they extinguish the fire. It’s not a binary choice.
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I’m not naive. I work on the front lines where I can’t quarantine myself from it like others. I know it’s bad. But your incessant doomsday apocalyptic worse case scenarios are old. You can’t and won’t acknowledge any positive information no matter what.
I’ll try again. Cuomo said today that the cases are doubling every 4 days now compared to 2 and 3 days earlier. Still sucks but looks like it is slowing.
I think their system is now broken. Even their recovery/death ratio is trending the wrong way. Bad news
Probably not much has changed. It is easier to test in the early stages. Once the cases double multiple times the testing probably can not keep up. Even if it doubles every week. That is a HUGE jump after a couple months.
I thought Bill Gates's interview on CNN last night was wonderful. During it, he talked about lessons how his foundation took recommendations from the previous episodes and made a series of recommmendations to governments across the world.. According to Bill, pretty much none of them were implemented but he expects that because of this incident, that will change in the future. Countries will be more than willing to head off any future pandemics.
I like those analogies, how about testing is like figuring out which way the wind is blowing so you can direct your resources to the fire you haven't found yet?
Yep, it is like having a fire tower to see where the fire is off in the distance rather than waiting till you see in coming through the trees.
The problem with this virus is those treating it end up getting infected. It has to take a toll on those working in the hardest hit. They basically are watching people suffocate to death.
Toadie
Stay with us. This is an analogy. The ember is TESTING not a treatment. You can't step on it and put it out. "That is the equivalent of a personal quarantine for a pre symptomatic positive test." I am all for that. My point is that is what we all should be doing right now whether positive or negative. Hence shelter in place. Assume you have it or will get it if you leave the house.
That is indeed an interesting point. If you suggested we would start to ship masks ventilators, etc all over the country where we think IT MIGHT be the next hot spot I agree it might make sense. From what I can gather we wouldn't do that UNTIL we started seeing an out break of hospital worthy patients. The problem is this can go from a-symptomatic [just stay home] to life threatening very quickly.
Sadly.. the positives are drown out by the doomsday, we are all dying, over the f ing top rhetoric. How about the number of people who have recovered....another positive. The placing of blame, death count....and opinion reporting as fact ....is simply out of control
I only watched about half of it. i'll watch the rest later. Thinking about my post earlier maybe we should look at masks, ventilators, test kits the same we do the strategic oil reserves. Build 100,000 ventilators, make a couple billion masks, 100 million test kits [unless they have shelf life] and set them in a warehouse. Doesn't protect us from everything but it seems most pandemics are of the respiratory nature so these would be an insurance policy. Can't cost too much.
you guys are missing my point. It is only like looking from a fire tower if you are going to do nothing ANYWAY until it comes through the trees.
Please differentiate testing from masks ventilators, and hospital beds, in other words things that can help.
And don't if you are referring to any of my posts suggest i would sacrifice people for the economy. I for one would favor a nationwide shelter in place. Assume you have it or if you don't will get it if you go out in public. Quick and simple question for those supporting a greater emphasis on testing. If you are not self quarantining how often do you want or should get tested? Daily ,weekly, monthly. We know this thing is very contagious and moves fast.
Nope you were not the one I was referring to. I can link that thread where that poster said he would if you want.
Read an article today on Quest Diagnostics in Cali. They were handing a lot of the testing. Initially they were two days turn around time till results, then four, now they are >7 days. With this prolonged time for results, hopefully by the time you have symptoms and get tested, and get results the 14 day journey is over.
