Cornell

[redblades]

I think either the russians or Jammenz has hacked redblades account

National duals + conspiracy theory + Cael losing at something + Cael fearful of something = Jammenz

Curses, I've been sussed!

But careful, Dunkej, I don't think I said Cael was fearful of anything - more that he had a bad taste in his mouth after that defeat. As I recall, Cael was pretty outspoken about his frustration with his team's performance after that weekend. I wish I could find the quote again, but included was a comment something along the lines of: " ...and wrestling is supposed to be FUN! You get to pick people up and throw them down! And you only get four years of this, and then it's over..."

I remember being struck by that - the idea that your time on the mat was so finite, and you had to seize the day - and the sense he seemed to convey that a change of culture was needed.

 

[ptdan]

We do wrestle an EIWA power and east coast neighbor, and historic rival--LEHIGH.

 

[NoVa Lion]

We do wrestle an EIWA power and east coast neighbor, and historic rival--LEHIGH.

No point in engaging redblades when it comes to Cael and PSU. He has been a Cael basher ever since we won NCAAs in 2011 with Cornell 2nd.

 

[nitlion6]

No point in engaging redblades when it comes to Cael and PSU. He has been a Cael basher ever since we won NCAAs in 2011 with Cornell 2nd.

Blades has been redfaced and openly bitter ever sense. If you listen carefully you can almost hear the screaming "we won that, we won that, we won that" of a tantrum throwing child.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

If it is putting rearends in seats then Penn State traveling to West Point to fill their gym is growing the sport more so than traveling to Ithaca to fill a gym that sees a full house once or twice a year anyhow.

Now if we were talking about starting a wrestling series of Friday Night Wrestling, featuring big time matches from across the country Penn State hosting Cornell in a Friday night match televised by whoever, ESPN, FOXSports then they could talk about putting their differences aside to grow the sport.

OK, how about "good for the sport" in lieu of "grow the sport". The main reason I used the latter term is because it's so over-used on this and similar sites, and by coaches in interviews, etc.

I don't know the real reasons why PSU and Cornell, two schools separated by about a 3 hour bus ride, can't agree to schedule a couple dual meets. But the reasons given in this thread seem rather insignificant and petty IMO.

 

[nitlion6]

OK, how about "good for the sport" in lieu of "grow the sport". The main reason I used the latter term is because it's so over-used on this and similar sites, and by coaches in interviews, etc.

I don't know the real reasons why PSU and Cornell, two schools separated by about a 3 hour bus ride, can't agree to schedule a couple dual meets. But the reasons given in this thread seem rather insignificant and petty IMO.

Other than some personally strong feelings about the opposing coaches and for a moment ignoring the apparent change in how we count competitions the schedule is put together with certain parameters in mind. Meet B1G obligations, see as large a percentage of the competition you will likely encounter at nationals as possible, kids in the program from far away places get them a chance to wrestle close to home once or twice in their careers and give some support to the smaller programs.
It used to be we saw Cornell annually at the scuffle so there was no need to schedule a dual. I have no idea what Cornell is doing for holiday competition this year.

The whole "personal feelings" thing is "petty and unproductive" perspective may have some validity, but to dismiss those feeling and how they frame our perceptions and perspectives is showing a dismissive that lacks understanding of the power of those feelings.

Penn State not wrestling Cornell on a regular basis means zero. I and obviously you would like to see that dual on a regular basis, but I would also like to see us wrestle NCST, Appalachian St, Virginia Tech, Missouri, Iowa St and Pitt on a regular basis. However, there are just so many dates available.

 

[NoVa Lion]

OK, how about "good for the sport" in lieu of "grow the sport". The main reason I used the latter term is because it's so over-used on this and similar sites, and by coaches in interviews, etc.

I don't know the real reasons why PSU and Cornell, two schools separated by about a 3 hour bus ride, can't agree to schedule a couple dual meets. But the reasons given in this thread seem rather insignificant and petty IMO.

We can't wrestle everyone. I wouldn't mind see us wrestling Cornell, but that does not occur in a vacuum. If we add Cornell then some other school gets dropped. Maybe you could give us your list of who we should wrestle and who we shouldn't? Otherwise your point seems insignificant and petty.

 

[El-Jefe]

7 trophies in 8 years indicates Cael might know how to schedule.

If that doesn't satisfy the fans, that's a shame.

 

[RoarLions1]

We can't wrestler everyone. I wouldn't mind see us wrestling Cornell, but that does not occur in a vacuum. If we add Cornell then some other school gets dropped. Maybe you could give us your list of who we should wrestle and who we shouldn't? Otherwise your point seems insignificant and petty.

So true. To remind everyone of the numbers...
-- 16 competition dates allowed,
-- 9 of those are B1G duals
-- 2 of those are in-season tournaments
-- 1 is Lehigh, a team we've wrestled every year since and including 1934

That leaves 4 dates to schedule. It would be great for the fans to have a nice mix...PA teams with guys we followed through their high school years and a $$$ help to their program, as well as bringing in a solid, say top-15, team each year.

There's 18 weekends between the start of the season and this year's Big Ten's. Remove Thanksgiving, Christmas, the week after New Years, and the week prior to post-season, and it leaves 14 weekends to schedule. Nice to have a couple breaks throughout, given these guys are STUDENT-athletes, and it's tougher than most know to match up with a specific team...as BOTH have to be open.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Other than some personally strong feelings about the opposing coaches and for a moment ignoring the apparent change in how we count competitions the schedule is put together with certain parameters in mind. Meet B1G obligations, see as large a percentage of the competition you will likely encounter at nationals as possible, kids in the program from far away places get them a chance to wrestle close to home once or twice in their careers and give some support to the smaller programs.
It used to be we saw Cornell annually at the scuffle so there was no need to schedule a dual. I have no idea what Cornell is doing for holiday competition this year.

The whole "personal feelings" thing is "petty and unproductive" perspective may have some validity, but to dismiss those feeling and how they frame our perceptions and perspectives is showing a dismissive that lacks understanding of the power of those feelings.

Penn State not wrestling Cornell on a regular basis means zero. I and obviously you would like to see that dual on a regular basis, but I would also like to see us wrestle NCST, Appalachian St, Virginia Tech, Missouri, Iowa St and Pitt on a regular basis. However, there are just so many dates available.

Fair enough. Good point about the Scuffle.

 

[Ja1339]

Who here voluntarily conducts business with people they can't trust?

Calling an emergency vote on national duals was weaselly. The only emergency was ramming it thru before Cael and Brands got home from the Olympics.

Continually sticking a thumb in the eye ... virtue signaling, not serious about competing. Complete opposite of relationship repairing and building.

I will say a 2013 PSU v Cornell matchup would have been sweet... giving DT an additional crack at Dake.

 

[androcles]

...jes wunderin'...
...did Koll perhaps apply for the Penn State job and was passed over when Sanderson applied?...
...maybe Rob felt he would be favored since his dad did such a good job there and he probably had a lot of PS alumni supporters...

 

[nitlion6]

Koll did apply. Koll was going to be the pick right up to the moment Tim Curley picked up the phone and heard, "hello mr. Curley. This is Cael Sanderson and I was wondering if I can still apply for the Penn State head wrestling coach's position".

 

[AgSurfer]

I do know that in 2011, Cornell had very high expectations going into the NCAA tournament and a legitimate chance to win. Unfortunately, a great performance by Penn State combined with what I would call an underperformance by Cornell spoiled their final results. There are a lot of people on the Cornell side who still have it in for PSU because of that outcome.

 

[matter7172]

To be honest, if it wasn't Cael, Koll would have been my next choice if I were in the decision-making process at PSU. Koll shouldn't, imo, have any hard feelings. If Cael hadn't thrown his hat into the ring, Koll might have had the job. But it's hard to argue that Cael wasn't the right choice.

 

[nitlion6]

Don’t know if it’s true, but I heard this is how it went down and Koll had an issue with PSU ever since, he mistakenly thought the job was his to accept or refuse.

The guy who told me this was pretty much how it played out is also the guy who 2 or 3 days before anybody was even breathing Cael's name as a possibility told me Cael Sanderson was going to be Penn State's coach. So I have pretty much accepted it as pretty close.

 

[Cowbell Man]

The guy who told me this was pretty much how it played out is also the guy who 2 or 3 days before anybody was even breathing Cael's name as a possibility told me Cael Sanderson was going to be Penn State's coach. So I have pretty much accepted it as pretty close.

This is true, save perhaps the “mistakenly” part, if one believes an offer has been made.

However, this is NOT a factor in scheduling. Koll has reached out to schedule via phone and text. Communication does exist between the two camps. Whatever happens after that is a guess. However, in the name of growing the sport, keep in mind it was PSU who did not join the proposed Cornell PSU hockey wrestling double header in Madison Square Garden. Another wrestling team took our place vs Cornell while our Hockey team played. I still scratch my head a bit over that one.

The reality is save for like 3 teams, the other team needs PSU more than we need them, so that is sort of a non starter in the argument...and Iowa and OSU are in our conference. OkieST is the only real OOC team that doesn’t “need” PSU...though we need each other. Cornell, Lehigh, VT, Mizz....etc, all need us.

And we need them too

(Bitterness started in a Iowa state loss to Cornell?.....facepalm)

 

[nitlion6]

This is true, save perhaps the “mistakenly” part, if one believes an offer has been made.

However, this is NOT a factor in scheduling. Koll has reached out to schedule via phone and text. Communication does exist between the two camps. Whatever happens after that is a guess. However, in the name of growing the sport, keep in mind it was PSU who did not join the proposed Cornell PSU hockey wrestling double header in Madison Square Garden. Another wrestling team took our place vs Cornell while our Hockey team played. I still scratch my head a bit over that one.

The reality is save for like 3 teams, the other team needs PSU more than we need them, so that is sort of a non starter in the argument...and Iowa and OSU are in our conference. OkieST is the only real OOC team that doesn’t “need” PSU...though we need each other. Cornell, Lehigh, VT, Mizz....etc, all need us.

And we need them too

(Bitterness started in a Iowa state loss to Cornell?.....facepalm)

As has been mentioned. Penn State, Iowa and Okie State (ie Sanderson, Brands, Smith) are not going out of their way to schedule OOC matches with Cornell, Missouri or Ohio State (ie Koll, Smith, Ryan).

The whole thing with the duals was underhanded, secretive and an agenda pushed forward with much misinformation. Then to make it even more confrontational, every time the proposal seemed to be shelved there was another attempt to force the duals into the picture by pursuing a different route. There is more than a small trust issue between the two different groupings of coaches and the feelings on the issue are still quite strong. Everytime you hear Koll, or Ryan make a public statement endorsing the idea of forcing a dual tournament into the team championship you can figure we are still several years away from cooperating to put a dual together.

 

[Cowbell Man]

As has been mentioned. Penn State, Iowa and Okie State (ie Sanderson, Brands, Smith) are not going out of their way to schedule OOC matches with Cornell, Missouri or Ohio State (ie Koll, Smith, Ryan).

The whole thing with the duals was underhanded, secretive and an agenda pushed forward with much misinformation. Then to make it even more confrontational, every time the proposal seemed to be shelved there was another attempt to force the duals into the picture by pursuing a different route. There is more than a small trust issue between the two different groupings of coaches and the feelings on the issue are still quite strong. Everytime you hear Koll, or Ryan make a public statement endorsing the idea of forcing a dual tournament into the team championship you can figure we are still several years away from cooperating to put a dual together.

This. Pretty much it. One side communicates in one way, and the other communicates in another way....and neither likes the other's approach. An end run is rarely productive. Creates lack of trust and interest in later cooperation.

 

[Dogwelder]

Koll did apply. Koll was going to be the pick right up to the moment Tim Curley picked up the phone and heard, "hello mr. Curley. This is Cael Sanderson and I was wondering if I can still apply for the Penn State head wrestling coach's position".

I heard Curley was on the phone with Koll, and then Dave Conaway rushed in and said, “Get off the phone right now with Koll. Cael Sanderson is calling for you!”

 

[dunkej01]

Im just glad Iowa will be on TV this year with sell out crowds.

#barringwinterstormsofcourse
#backinblack2020

 

[jammenz]

I am 100% positive this particular type of communication does not help Koll's cause.

Basically the underhanded crap (lies and properly chosen times for votes) by the NWCA leadership (Ryan, Koll and JRob) in trying to force the Coaches dual tournament into the recognized national team champion and later the attempted behind closed doors manipulation of the duals into the team championship formula caused some severe mistrust.
You don't see Iowa going out of their way to grapple with Cornell either.

Just a suggestion, but an apology for being so damn secretive, underhanded and using misinformation might go a long way in getting Penn State and Cornell on each other's schedule occasionally.

I know that isn't coming, I am just saying it would help.

I seriously doubt Cornell ends up on Penn State's or Iowa's schedule until the schools change leadership. In other words, not for a while.

Maybe Koll should start a blog to communicate at Cael's level.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Or he could hit himself in the head with a hammer and communicate at your level.

 

[CropDuster507]

Maybe Koll should start a blog to communicate at Cael's level.

I was waiting to see when your "Cael killed National Duals and is the anti-Christ" agenda was coming into play. Much more subtle than usual. Either you're gaining sanity or you're losing steam.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

Compromise.
Set up a dual w/Cornell every 3 years to fill the Iowa void.

 

[jammenz]

I was waiting to see when your "Cael killed National Duals and is the anti-Christ" agenda was coming into play. Much more subtle than usual. Either you're gaining sanity or you're losing steam.

Glad you caught it, CD. I hate it when I've went too subtle and fail to communicate effectively.

 

[lobo lion]

To be honest, if it wasn't Cael, Koll would have been my next choice if I were in the decision-making process at PSU. Koll shouldn't, imo, have any hard feelings. If Cael hadn't thrown his hat into the ring, Koll might have had the job. But it's impossible to argue that Cael wasn't the right choice.

FIFY

 

[redblades]

As has been mentioned. Penn State, Iowa and Okie State (ie Sanderson, Brands, Smith) are not going out of their way to schedule OOC matches with Cornell, Missouri or Ohio State (ie Koll, Smith, Ryan).

Actually, Okie State scheduled a home/away with Cornell very recently (2016 and 2017 seasons) and Iowa last wrestled Cornell in 2015. I'm pretty sure both Iowa and Okie State have both wrestled Mizzou pretty recently as well. Curious, when has Penn State last wrestled Mizzou? (Jan 2009 is the last matchup I see?)

 

[nitlion6]

Actually, Okie State scheduled a home/away with Cornell very recently (2016 and 2017 seasons) and Iowa last wrestled Cornell in 2015. I'm pretty sure both Iowa and Okie State have both wrestled Mizzou pretty recently as well. Curious, when has Penn State last wrestled Mizzou?

The Missouri Iowa match was the duals championship match hosted by Iowa, and the Cornell Iowa match was the semi-final match in the same tournament.

I missed the Okie St vs Cornell home/home.

Last time PSU wrestled Missouri in a dual? I don't remember. It hasn't been necessary to wrestle them in a dual. They have seen them at the scuffle.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Or he could hit himself in the head with a hammer and communicate at your level.

This seems to be one of the scenarios discussed in Logic class. The mass/density of the hammer necessary to cause the required amount of damage would exceed even Thor's ability to wield.

 

[PSU Mike]

This seems to be one of the scenarios discussed in Logic class. The mass/density of the hammer necessary to cause the required amount of damage would exceed even Thor's ability to wield.

So is it okay to recruit over Thor in that instance?

 

[cidhawkeye]

So is it okay to recruit over Thor in that instance?

83% chance it works out well.

 

[RoarLions1]

The Missouri Iowa match was the duals championship match hosted by Iowa, and the Cornell Iowa match was the semi-final match in the same tournament.

I missed the Okie St vs Cornell home/home.

Last time PSU wrestled Missouri in a dual? I don't remember. It hasn't been necessary to wrestle them in a dual. They have seen them at the scuffle.

PSU has wrestled Missouri 6 times, 2009, 2004, 2002, 1993, 1983, and 1981, and has a 3-2-1 record vs the Tigers. Four of those were Virginia Duals bouts, and the earliest two were at Rec Hall. Believe this to be accurate.

 

[NoVa Lion]

PSU has wrestled Missouri 6 times, 2009, 2004, 2002, 1993, 1983, and 1981, and has a 3-2-1 record vs the Tigers. Four of those were Virginia Duals bouts, and the earliest two were at Rec Hall. Believe this to be accurate.

One of those duals was at National Duals when it was at Cleveland State. I remember because I was there and as with almost every trip to Cleveland they got over a foot of snow. At least we only had flurries at NCAAs this year.

 

[RoarLions1]

One of those duals was at National Duals when it was at Cleveland State. I remember because I was there and as with almost every trip to Cleveland they got over a foot of snow. At least we only had flurries at NCAAs this year.

Thanks NoVa. After thinking about it, the best I can say is that the last four times we faced Missouri was in a dual tournament setting, and not all at the Virginia Duals.

And since you mentioned snow...I sure hope this coming B1G Championship, and the 2019-20 NCAA Tournament are snow-free .

 

[SetonHallPirate]

The Missouri Iowa match was the duals championship match hosted by Iowa, and the Cornell Iowa match was the semi-final match in the same tournament.

I missed the Okie St vs Cornell home/home.

Last time PSU wrestled Missouri in a dual? I don't remember. It hasn't been necessary to wrestle them in a dual. They have seen them at the scuffle.

Oklahoma State definitely wrestled Cornell home-and-home. I covered the dual when it was in Stillwater (December 16, 2016), and then flew out to Reno to try to cover the Nittany Lions there. Of course, only one of us made it to Nevada.

 

[lionlover]

Going to be a lot of fun to watch Yanni in the coming years.

@Tom McAndrew @amalone

 

[lookleft goright]

I think any team PSU wrestles is good for the sport in one way or another. They are the hottest ticket in town right now. Wrestling Cornell may garner some national headlines and interest as opposed to jus local excitement. In that way it will be good. However, if they can pack a house of a smaller school, having an AD see the excitement may help those schools even more and in that way help the sport.
Some times you just have to trust the coaches. They are the ones with all the info and factors to take into consideration. Life must be tough when the biggest thing to complain about in regards to your team is who they schedule because everyone wants them on their schedule.