We are now committed and cemented to mediocrity!

Psugo823

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2021
1,062
915
1
2-16 lifetime vs top ten teams. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.
The coach jock riders don't have the facts. We do. All they are left with are the angry rants of children.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lion8286

Psugo823

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2021
1,062
915
1
This is a very bad take and suggests you do not understand the day to day operations, nor the bigger picture, of college football.

PSU is very lucky to have Franklin. He is one of the top 10 over all coaches in the country right now.

I am thrilled he will be at PSU for years to come.
66-34.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lion8286

bvillebaron

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,519
3,657
1
You are pathetic to even consider a win against RU as anything more then a scrimmage. No matter who the coach is.
Are you really this dense? Sorry that was a rhetorical question. Next time work real hard and see if you can understand the topic being discussed. Wow!
 

PSU2UNC

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2016
5,705
6,306
1
In the four seasons he has completed that were neither impact by sanctions or covid (2016-2019), he had three double digit win seasons. There are only two coaches who won double digit games in all four seasons in that time frame: Saban and Dabo.
 
  • Love
Reactions: LMTLION

PSU2UNC

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2016
5,705
6,306
1
2-16 lifetime vs top ten teams. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.
Please post the records of other coaches against top ten teams over the same time period. In how many of those 18 games was PSU favored to win? In how many of those games was PSU >7 point underdog?

You act like having a winning record against top ten teams is an easy thing to do. It is not.
 

IANit

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2002
1,962
1,828
1
Iowa
We all wish it was different but we all also know deep down inside Franklin will never be a top tier coach. He has reached his level of incompetence. I hear the recruiting but as i said before- doesn’t matter if you cannot coach!! And he cant. His game management- atrocious! Never has ability to correct year after year. Cannot win after a bye or a lose because he loses the team, he is a statue on the sidelines staring into space when things get tough, never makes in game changes to schemes or approach, is entirely to love with himself and social media, thinks he is better than he is and his record shows that! But we are STUCK with him. I read people say- so who would we get- The future of some assistants - aka defense coach- would be much better than it ever will be with Franklin. We are now locked into being a middle of the pack big ten team for A L
Nebraska for one would probably be very happy to be stuck with this level of mediocrity.
 

NittanyIllinois

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2019
2,691
5,414
1
Please post the records of other coaches against top ten teams over the same time period. In how many of those 18 games was PSU favored to win? In how many of those games was PSU >7 point underdog?

You act like having a winning record against top ten teams is an easy thing to do. It is not.

Harbaugh is equally atrocious against top-10 teams. But other coaches at similar programs have fared better.

Kirby Smart is 11-6
Ryan Day is 5-2
Lincoln Riley is 7-3
Mario Cristobal is 3-2
Paul Chryst is 5-8
Brian Kelly is 4-12
Dan Mullen was 4-7 at Florida
Tom Herman was 3-6 at Texas
Clay Helton was 4-8 at USC
Ed Orgeron was 13-6 at LSU

This doesn't include Saban or Dabo, who obviously have won a ton (particularly Saban).

Basically, Franklin and Harbaugh have literally been the worst big game coaches at blue blood programs (with at least 3 seasons to account for). Franklin is 2-13 (2-10 if you're only counting from 2016 on).

He's much better than coaches at Texas, FSU, Miami, etc. at beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N&B4PSU

manilion

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2001
189
125
1
Mediocre is exactly what a celebrated win against Rutgers represents. You Franklin Fan Boys keep up your pathetic support and next year, next recruiting class and it’s the players or refs fault rationale. Bottom line is he is not a great coach, closer to an average coach then good coach. His record against good competition reflects it.
 

manilion

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2001
189
125
1
Harbaugh is equally atrocious against top-10 teams. But other coaches at similar programs have fared better.

Kirby Smart is 11-6
Ryan Day is 5-2
Lincoln Riley is 7-3
Mario Cristobal is 3-2
Paul Chryst is 5-8
Brian Kelly is 4-12
Dan Mullen was 4-7 at Florida
Tom Herman was 3-6 at Texas
Clay Helton was 4-8 at USC
Ed Orgeron was 13-6 at LSU

This doesn't include Saban or Dabo, who obviously have won a ton (particularly Saban).

Basically, Franklin and Harbaugh have literally been the worst big game coaches at blue blood programs (with at least 3 seasons to account for). Franklin is 2-13 (2-10 if you're only counting from 2016 on).

He's much better than coaches at Texas, FSU, Miami, etc. at beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
How about we say 0-10 since 2016. If you want to cherry pick the record.
 

NittanyIllinois

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2019
2,691
5,414
1
How about we say 0-10 since 2016. If you want to cherry pick the record.
I think he's on a 9 game losing streak. As far as I know, that's the longest such streak among any of the power programs, but I'd have to double check.

In fairness, several of those were against truly elite teams -- the past 3 OSU teams, for instance. But definitely a lot of winnable games since (and including) the USC Rose Bowl.
 

Sooner Lion

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2003
2,937
2,147
1
Harbaugh is equally atrocious against top-10 teams. But other coaches at similar programs have fared better.

Kirby Smart is 11-6
Ryan Day is 5-2
Lincoln Riley is 7-3
Mario Cristobal is 3-2
Paul Chryst is 5-8
Brian Kelly is 4-12
Dan Mullen was 4-7 at Florida
Tom Herman was 3-6 at Texas
Clay Helton was 4-8 at USC
Ed Orgeron was 13-6 at LSU

This doesn't include Saban or Dabo, who obviously have won a ton (particularly Saban).

Basically, Franklin and Harbaugh have literally been the worst big game coaches at blue blood programs (with at least 3 seasons to account for). Franklin is 2-13 (2-10 if you're only counting from 2016 on).

He's much better than coaches at Texas, FSU, Miami, etc. at beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
What's crazy is the last four coaches on the list were fired, even though the fared much better vs top ten competition. What do we do? Give him a 10 year deal. How anyone can see this as a positive it beyond me.

#WPS
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmos and psu00

Psugo823

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2021
1,062
915
1
In the four seasons he has completed that were neither impact by sanctions or covid (2016-2019), he had three double digit win seasons. There are only two coaches who won double digit games in all four seasons in that time frame: Saban and Dabo.
Excellent argument. Well done, you managed not to act like a 9 year old and you are not a coach worshipper...it's sad these others can't follow your lead.
 

MacNit07

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2017
4,758
4,385
1
My point exactly. If People think we been mediocre under franklin considering the crap storm he started with then Penn State has settled for mediocracy a long long time ago under Paterno.
409 wins? Best bowl record of all-time? Sober up!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psugo823

PSU_Nut

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
17,540
3,479
1
409 wins? Best bowl record of all-time? Sober up!
Yes he was once great but after '94 the program was not as it once was and that was my whole point. It is not the 80s when Penn State was a dominate program yet some people are delusional and think just because Penn State draws 100k it is some elite program. It was the "mediocracy" people are accusing Franklin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sooner Lion

SR108

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2004
15,810
5,057
1
We all wish it was different but we all also know deep down inside Franklin will never be a top tier coach. He has reached his level of incompetence. I hear the recruiting but as i said before- doesn’t matter if you cannot coach!! And he cant. His game management- atrocious! Never has ability to correct year after year. Cannot win after a bye or a lose because he loses the team, he is a statue on the sidelines staring into space when things get tough, never makes in game changes to schemes or approach, is entirely to love with himself and social media, thinks he is better than he is and his record shows that! But we are STUCK with him. I read people say- so who would we get- The future of some assistants - aka defense coach- would be much better than it ever will be with Franklin. We are now locked into being a middle of the pack big ten team for A L
Give it a chance, glass half full.
 

OhioLion

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2001
5,495
5,429
1
Heart of America, Archbold, OH
The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results.
A second definition of insanity is when haters constantly, repetitively, all the time, with every post say the same Dadgum thing and feel that somehow everyone will think they are intelligent because of their repeated redundancy.
You people all need to give it a rest. Fans support Franklin. Fans hate Franklin. And never the two shall meet. I wish everyone could give it a rest.

OL
 

danvillenit

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2012
4,691
3,535
1
A second definition of insanity is when haters constantly, repetitively, all the time, with every post say the same Dadgum thing and feel that somehow everyone will think they are intelligent because of their repeated redundancy.
You people all need to give it a rest. Fans support Franklin. Fans hate Franklin. And never the two shall meet. I wish everyone could give it a rest.

OL
I don’t get what their act is about. It doesn’t make sense to post the same negativity over and over again. Why hang out at a message board with a bunch of us fanboys. They definitely have some issues
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hotshoe

Sooner Lion

Well-Known Member
Nov 10, 2003
2,937
2,147
1
A second definition of insanity is when haters constantly, repetitively, all the time, with every post say the same Dadgum thing and feel that somehow everyone will think they are intelligent because of their repeated redundancy.
You people all need to give it a rest. Fans support Franklin. Fans hate Franklin. And never the two shall meet. I wish everyone could give it a rest.

OL
Message received.
 

Marylovesthelions

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2008
6,814
2,672
1
77
Mt Dora FL
We all wish it was different but we all also know deep down inside Franklin will never be a top tier coach. He has reached his level of incompetence. I hear the recruiting but as i said before- doesn’t matter if you cannot coach!! And he cant. His game management- atrocious! Never has ability to correct year after year. Cannot win after a bye or a lose because he loses the team, he is a statue on the sidelines staring into space when things get tough, never makes in game changes to schemes or approach, is entirely to love with himself and social media, thinks he is better than he is and his record shows that! But we are STUCK with him. I read people say- so who would we get- The future of some assistants - aka defense coach- would be much better than it ever will be with Franklin. We are now locked into being a middle of the pack big ten team for A L
Switch teams. I won't miss your bawling.
 

MacNit07

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2017
4,758
4,385
1
Yes he was once great but after '94 the program was not as it once was and that was my whole point. It is not the 80s when Penn State was a dominate program yet some people are delusional and think just because Penn State draws 100k it is some elite program. It was the "mediocracy" people are accusing Franklin.
Had done fabulously accomplished teams after ‘94…every bit as good and better than anything Franklin has produced…not a diss on CJF…but an acknowledgement of Joe’s greatness.
 

eilion

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2006
1,256
237
1
who else other than 3 or 4 teams has been consistently good? Think Franklin has figured out Defense and hopefully QB situation is resolved. Let's hope he finds a way to develop on O line run game with an attitude.
 

eilion

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2006
1,256
237
1
Had done fabulously accomplished teams after ‘94…every bit as good and better than anything Franklin has produced…not a diss on CJF…but an acknowledgement of Joe’s greatness.
Joe produced very little in terms of being elite for 17 years after that team. OSU and major college football has changed dramatically since then and PSU failed to keep up. That is to say nothing about the 2011 sanctions. O'brien and Franklin have done and admirable job but people have got to be realistic about where PSU has been since the early 90s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmos and Hotshoe

MacNit07

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2017
4,758
4,385
1
Joe produced very little in terms of being elite for 17 years after that team. OSU and major college football has changed dramatically since then and PSU failed to keep up. That is to say nothing about the 2011 sanctions. O'brien and Franklin have done and admirable job but people have got to be realistic about where PSU has been since the early 90s.
He produced some very good team during that era…not to his previous standards, but very, very good…with terrific bowl wins and clutch wins..:would love to see CJF get us back to that level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N&B4PSU

Hotshoe

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Feb 15, 2012
24,190
39,052
1
He produced some very good team during that era…not to his previous standards, but very, very good…with terrific bowl wins and clutch wins..:would love to see CJF get us back to that level.
Franklin just had 31 wins 3 years in a row before Covid. Had 42 wins in 4 years, and 28 B1G wins, most ever in program history. Where do you want to get back to? Some here need to do some research. He also rebuilt a program that was told it wouldn't recruit a 4 or 5 star player in the next 10 years. He did it with crap facilities, decades behind nearly everyone in the B1G minus Rutgers.

 

GregInPitt

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
13,143
9,280
1
We all wish it was different but we all also know deep down inside Franklin will never be a top tier coach. He has reached his level of incompetence. I hear the recruiting but as i said before- doesn’t matter if you cannot coach!! And he cant. His game management- atrocious! Never has ability to correct year after year. Cannot win after a bye or a lose because he loses the team, he is a statue on the sidelines staring into space when things get tough, never makes in game changes to schemes or approach, is entirely to love with himself and social media, thinks he is better than he is and his record shows that! But we are STUCK with him. I read people say- so who would we get- The future of some assistants - aka defense coach- would be much better than it ever will be with Franklin. We are now locked into being a middle of the pack big ten team for A L

yep, as long as you keep posting….
;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hotshoe

PSU_Nut

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
17,540
3,479
1
Had done fabulously accomplished teams after ‘94…every bit as good and better than anything Franklin has produced…not a diss on CJF…but an acknowledgement of Joe’s greatness.
Put is this way. In the 17 seasons under Paterno after 94 he had 3 Top 10 seasons. Franklin has had three Top 10 seasons since he has been here even dealing with the sanctions. People are calling that mediocre yet fail to acknowledge he has done more at Penn State than what was done the 19 seasons prior to him.
 
Last edited:

PSU_Nut

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
17,540
3,479
1
He produced some very good team during that era…not to his previous standards, but very, very good…with terrific bowl wins and clutch wins..:would love to see CJF get us back to that level.
What clutch wins? Like Iowa in 2005 Or Minnesota in 99? What were the great bowl wins? The epic overtime win over a 7-6 Florida State? Maybe the Alamo bowl win after losing three straight with a defense that had the two top picks in the NFL draft. The only really impressive bowl win post ‘94 would have been Texas in the fiesta bowl. I think your love of Joe is really clouding the reality of the tail end of his career.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lion8286

NittanyIllinois

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2019
2,691
5,414
1
What clutch wins? Like Iowa in 2005 Or Minnesota in 99? What were the great bowl wins? The epic overtime win over a 7-6 Florida State? Maybe the Alamo bowl win after losing three straight with a defense that had the two top picks in the NFL draft. The only really impressive bowl win post ‘94 would have been Texas in the fiesta bowl. I think your love of Joe is really clouding the reality of the tail end of his career.

That's a fair point.

I'm as big a Joe fan as anybody, but post-94, we didn't really have many signature wins. Even that '96 Texas team we beat in the Fiesta Bowl finished 8-5.

For those who criticize Franklin's record vs. the top-10 (and I'm among them), it's worth noting that Joe went 7-19 against top-10 teams. Not bad, but certainly not "elite". Only 1 top-5 win -- and that was against an Arizona team that turned out to pretty average.

Did have some good wins -- Ohio State in '05, @ Ohio State in '08, Ohio State in '97, the Kickoff Classic against USC in '96, the win @ Miami in '99.......those all come to mind. The '05 OSU team was probably the best of all of them, as they finished #4 in the polls that year. But we weren't winning a lot of big games in his last ~15 years like we were in the 70s and 80s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU_Nut

danvillenit

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2012
4,691
3,535
1
What clutch wins? Like Iowa in 2005 Or Minnesota in 99? What were the great bowl wins? The epic overtime win over a 7-6 Florida State? Maybe the Alamo bowl win after losing three straight with a defense that had the two top picks in the NFL draft. The only really impressive bowl win post ‘94 would have been Texas in the fiesta bowl. I think your love of Joe is really clouding the reality of the tail end of his career.
They also got dominated in many of their big games. Just for fun I looked up 97 and 98 where they were highly ranked to start the season.

97 losses were 34-8, 49-14, 21-6.
98 losses were 28-9, 27-0, 24-3

Thats with recruiting classes that would have been ranked in the top 10. Then we got the 99 collapse followed by the dark years. Looks like underachieving to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bkmtnittany1