US News College ranking

[chrisrn1965]

Serious question - is it still appropriate to blame the Sandusky mess for the downward trend in Penn State's ranking? I'm sure that some of you have quite a bit of alumni involvement or relationships with faculty, so what is the general consensus as to why Penn State has gone down in the rankings? I don't want to hear "this ranking doesn't mean anything" or "this ranking is subjective and judgmental" because we were all pounding our chests back in the 90's and early 2000's when we were rising up the rankings. We have gone from low 40's in the early 2000's to low 60's in 2021.

I think that indirectly the Sandusky mess is a factor. It cost millions of dollars. To make up for the lost income the university began accepting more out of state students to get the extra tuition money. In order to do that they are taking less qualified out of state applicants.

 

[Nitwit]

I think that indirectly the Sandusky mess is a factor. It cost millions of dollars. To make up for the lost income the university began accepting more out of state students to get the extra tuition money. In order to do that they are taking less qualified out of state applicants.

That’s incorrect. The international students are more qualified than the PA kids.

 

[chrisrn1965]

That’s incorrect. The international students are more qualified than the PA kids.

I did not say international I said out of state. Undergraduate admissions are nearly 50% out of state now.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I did not say international I said out of state. Undergraduate admissions are nearly 50% out of state now.

I don't see how that would hurt our US News ranking. That is interesting but not the main cause of a 20 spot slide.

 

[chrisrn1965]

I don't see how that would hurt our US News ranking. That is interesting but not the main cause of a 20 spot slide.

It hurts not because they are out of state but because their grades and SAT scores are lower. In order to fill their desired quota of out of state students, they are taking students with lower grades and SATs then in state students who get rejected.

 

[bison13]

That’s incorrect. The international students are more qualified than the PA kids.

I can't say internationally but his comment was regarding out-of-state students and that is 100% true. As someone who teaches in Maryland I see kids all the time that are getting accepted to the main campus and have no business getting in. My wife's college roommate is a guidance counselor in New Jersey and she'll say the same thing.
I had a girl in my Calculus class 2 years ago who got accepted to main campus with a 3.2 GPA and barely over a thousand sat, she barely passed calculus as well

 

[Blue_Horseshoe]

At the end of the day, these rankings mean diddly poo

 

[fairfaxlion2]

It hurts not because they are out of state but because their grades and SAT scores are lower. In order to fill their desired quota of out of state students, they are taking students with lower grades and SATs then in state students who get rejected.

That is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard about PSU. Unbelievable.

It goes right back to my point about Spanier. He would have seen that this concept both hurts the rankings and does not help politically with Harrisburg. That simply wouldn't have happened when he was charge.

 

[Art]

That is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard about PSU. Unbelievable.

It goes right back to my point about Spanier. He would have seen that this concept both hurts the rankings and does not help politically with Harrisburg. That simply wouldn't have happened when he was charge.

Yeah, Spanier was the master of relationships with Harrisburg.

 

[psu7113]

Penn State has been leaning towards accessibility rather than quality although it would be nice to have both. The numbers of non foreign students who are minority has been dismal for a large state university and they are trying to fix that. I don’t know if these students have lower admission credentials than other non minorities.

Even if they did, you couldn’t say so without being labeled a racist…

 

[Nitwit]

I did not say international I said out of state. Undergraduate admissions are nearly 50% out of state now.

And what state are the international students from? Your 50% includes them. They are about 15% of the enrollment of undergrads. If you think the 50% is high, check out Delaware and WVA. PSU is geographically convenient to high population states such as NJ, NY, MD, Conn, so it’s natural that many students from those places would apply. If PSU wasn’t a great school, they would stay in state, but they would rather pay the premium.

 

[Fizz1]

Penn State has been leaning towards accessibility rather than quality although it would be nice to have both. The numbers of non foreign students who are minority has been dismal for a large state university and they are trying to fix that. I don’t know if these students have lower admission credentials than other non minorities.

It would be good to know where the top profs and university administrators, like candidates to be the next President, want to work these days. Is it PSU, and why or why not? Like any employer, PSU needs to understand this.

 

[Ian]

Come on man... under the robber Barron it’s all about $$$. Who cares about rankings. Just bring in the tuition, donations, research funding, and endowments. They rank pretty good in those areas and that’s all the mother ship wants. Too big to fail.

 

[LionJim]

I can't say internationally but his comment was regarding out-of-state students and that is 100% true. As someone who teaches in Maryland I see kids all the time that are getting accepted to the main campus and have no business getting in. My wife's college roommate is a guidance counselor in New Jersey and she'll say the same thing.
I had a girl in my Calculus class 2 years ago who got accepted to main campus with a 3.2 GPA and barely over a thousand sat, she barely passed calculus as well

You know this better than I do. How hard is it to get into UMCP? Also, I understand that UMCP has a hard percentage cap on out-of-state students. Is this correct and, if so, what’s the cap? TIA.

 

[Art]

On a less $ level, I’d put up state alum hooking up state youngsters on that scale. #network #cult

And what state are the international students from? Your 50% includes them. They are about 15% of the enrollment of undergrads. If you think the 50% is high, check out Delaware and WVA. PSU is geographically convenient to high population states such as NJ, NY, MD, Conn, so it’s natural that many students from those places would apply. If PSU wasn’t a great school, they would stay in state, but they would rather pay the premium.

Sure, kids from NJ would choose to attend PSU when their best in-state alternative is Montclair. And if you believe there are applicants from NJ who get into PSU and don't get into Rutgers, think again.

 

[wolve1972]

At the end of the day, these rankings mean diddly poo

Except when a so-so football program wants to point fingers at a football factory about how their academics suck

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Sure, kids from NJ would choose to attend PSU when their best in-state alternative is Montclair. And if you believe there are applicants from NJ who get into PSU and don't get into Rutgers, think again.

My kids and I spent lots of time on Rutgers campus (lacrosse camps, games, coaches clinics) if the campus wasn’t such a disjointed mess my sons may have considered it.
I also spent lots of time on Montclair campus. My friends son set lots of lax records there but my sons never considered it, too small, sorta beat culture v BIG schools.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

Except when a so-so football program wants to point fingers at a football factory about how their academics suck

I do that all the time on the main board. Probably should do a little homework first.

 

[Art]

My kids and I spent lots of time on Rutgers campus (lacrosse camps, games, coaches clinics) if the campus wasn’t such a disjointed mess my sons may have considered it.
I also spent lots of time on Montclair campus. My friends son set lots of lax records there but my sons never considered it, too small, sorta beat culture v BIG schools.

We're really not talking campus environs here.

 

[bison13]

You know this better than I do. How hard is it to get into UMCP? Also, I understand that UMCP has a hard percentage cap on out-of-state students. Is this correct and, if so, what’s the cap? TIA.

Not sure of the recent #'s but I will try to find out. I do know that UMCP has a cap on admitting number of students from the same HS in a year. If the top 25 of our school all applied they would not all get in even if their scores were all top notch.

 

[Lion Son/Husband/Father]

We're really not talking campus environs here.

You’re right but none of the rankings mean S if your sons don’t want to go there.

 

[wolve1972]

I didn't realize that Texas, Georgia, Florida and Florida State were that high. Those are some really solid - very good schools

 

[LionJim]

I didn't realize that Texas, Georgia, Florida and Florida State were that high. Those are some really solid - very good schools

Texas has oil money out the wazoo. They spent money to hire top notch scientists and mathematicians, Steve Weinberg, John Tate. As far as their sciences are concerned, they’re up there with Berkeley and Michigan as state schools go.

 

[bison13]

You know this better than I do. How hard is it to get into UMCP? Also, I understand that UMCP has a hard percentage cap on out-of-state students. Is this correct and, if so, what’s the cap? TIA.

Was on lunch so went to guidance office, here is what they had. UMD has about a 45% acceptance rate but you basically have to apply via early action or you dont get in. Less than 5% get in who do not do EA. So assume over 50% get in with EA.

Only about 25% of those accepted actually enroll and 75% of their student body is from MD. Approx 5% of their enrollment is international.

Avg weighted GPA from those accepted is 4.3 and middle 50% sat is 1300-1450. Crazy stat to me is that roughly 1/6 of all "freshmen" enrolled with enough AP /Dual enrollment credits to be granted sophomore status.

 

[Media Fan]

Penn State has been leaning towards accessibility rather than quality although it would be nice to have both. The numbers of non foreign students who are minority has been dismal for a large state university and they are trying to fix that. I don’t know if these students have lower admission credentials than other non minorities.

I’d be shocked if they didn’t. The good minority students get gobbled up by the Ivies etc.. We are not going to get the cream of the crop.

 

[Media Fan]

Was on lunch so went to guidance office, here is what they had. UMD has about a 45% acceptance rate but you basically have to apply via early action or you dont get in. Less than 5% get in who do not do EA. So assume over 50% get in with EA.

Only about 25% of those accepted actually enroll and 75% of their student body is from MD. Approx 5% of their enrollment is international.

Avg weighted GPA from those accepted is 4.3 and middle 50% sat is 1300-1450. Crazy stat to me is that roughly 1/6 of all "freshmen" enrolled with enough AP /Dual enrollment credits to be granted sophomore status.

Scores for those admitted are imo irrelevant.
What is relevant, and deliberately not made public, is the scores and grades for those who matriculate at the school.

 

[PSUoh90]

Sure, kids from NJ would choose to attend PSU when their best in-state alternative is Montclair. And if you believe there are applicants from NJ who get into PSU and don't get into Rutgers, think again.

What's the issue with Rutgers? I know they're fun to make fun of and from what I've heard, the campus is meh, but haven't they always had a solid reputation?

 

[wolve1972]

What's the issue with Rutgers? I know they're fun to make fun of and from what I've heard, the campus is meh, but haven't they always had a solid reputation?

Actually. if everyone is being open minded, the entire B1G is rock solid academically with possibly the only exception being Nebraska and they're not really all that bad. Being in the top 60 to 70 and better is pretty darn good

 

[bison13]

Scores for those admitted are imo irrelevant.
What is relevant, and deliberately not made public, is the scores and grades for those who matriculate at the school.

true for all schools. I do know UMD is a 'safety school' for a lot of asian kids who attempt to go Ivy or Duke or Hopkins, etc

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

I listened to the podcast last night. What struck me about the piece and explanation of the peer ranking element of the US News score/ranking, no one mentioned the mathematical phenomena of “wisdom of the crowd”?

View embedded media

LionJim can explain it better. It is freaky how accurate it can be.

I would have thought that Gladwell would have included this.

This is another real world application of the phenomenon

View embedded media

So, is the raking algorithm garbage? Maybe not.

Interesting stuff... The crowd average part was remarkable

 

[PSULionsDub]

Was on lunch so went to guidance office, here is what they had. UMD has about a 45% acceptance rate but you basically have to apply via early action or you dont get in. Less than 5% get in who do not do EA. So assume over 50% get in with EA.

Only about 25% of those accepted actually enroll and 75% of their student body is from MD. Approx 5% of their enrollment is international.

Avg weighted GPA from those accepted is 4.3 and middle 50% sat is 1300-1450. Crazy stat to me is that roughly 1/6 of all "freshmen" enrolled with enough AP /Dual enrollment credits to be granted sophomore status.

The middle 50% SAT score of 1300-1450 seems to be crazy high for University of Maryland College Park.

The local high school in Maryland that I am districted to sent 23 freshmen to University of Maryland College Park this fall. Most likely, more than 23 got admitted to the school, but 23 chose to enroll. Total high school senior class size was in the 350-400 student range.

 

[Art]

You’re right but none of the rankings mean S if your sons don’t want to go there.

Must be Non Sequitur Day.

 

[theallamerican]

More of the same, in trend, for the good guys.
How they pay Baron and his cronies anything is beyond me.

It's as if people on this board search for something to complain about and post it. It's exhausting.

 

[Woodpecker]

There is a great Revisionist History podcast episode on these rankings where Gladwell basically proves they are a subjective pile of shit

It's as if people on this board search for something to complain about and post it. It's exhausting.

Stop complaining!

 

[Art]

It's as if people on this board search for something to complain about and post it. It's exhausting.

Looks like you fit in just fine.

 

[kgilbert78]

Tie their state funding to the rankings. Bet they would correct this trend.

Eh, twice nothing is still nothing. State funding isn't that big a deal anymore. The legislature saw to that.

 

[Art]

Eh, twice nothing is still nothing. State funding isn't that big a deal anymore. The legislature saw to that.

Yup, blame it on the legislature. Two edges to that sword.

 

[wolve1972]

It's as if people on this board search for something to complain about and post it. It's exhausting.

I guess that's one way of looking at it, but it can also be COMICAL and entertaining. I laugh so hard sometimes my sides get ready to burst

 

[bison13]

The middle 50% SAT score of 1300-1450 seems to be crazy high for University of Maryland College Park.

The local high school in Maryland that I am districted to sent 23 freshmen to University of Maryland College Park this fall. Most likely, more than 23 got admitted to the school, but 23 chose to enroll. Total high school senior class size was in the 350-400 student range.

Which HS? Marriotts ridge in howard co had around 100 kids (out of 350 or so) apply to UMD 2 years ago and almost all of them had over a 4.0 weighted GPA and above 1300 SAT. Admissions flat out said we cant accept you all but we should as we know many are not going to come. Some really good kids were waitlisted or not accepted

 

[Media Fan]

The middle 50% SAT score of 1300-1450 seems to be crazy high for University of Maryland College Park.

The local high school in Maryland that I am districted to sent 23 freshmen to University of Maryland College Park this fall. Most likely, more than 23 got admitted to the school, but 23 chose to enroll. Total high school senior class size was in the 350-400 student range.

Those scores are for accepted applicants not Matriculated. Imo, way overstate the scores of those who attend.