my barber is a D3 ref in the region and really knows the game (and is a Illinois fan so no dog in this hunt). he made the comment today that the UM-tOSU game started to turn a bit when the refs actually started to call penalties on UM. at the start he said the game was slanted toward UM, but then changed. his comment was once the UM OL and DBs got called for holding the game turned. they are not used to being called, and he said the "Brown DEFENSE" approach fails if you cannot play "press" DEF with CBs (for UM this means holding and PI). FWIW he might be out to lunch on this, but it does fit with the urban legends we discuss on this forum re UM and the referines.
UM-tOSU game officiating
- Thread starter blion72
- Start date
I feel like that is a great observation.
IMHO, the UM/tOSU prejudice really, really hurts the conference. These two teams get special treatment by the league in many ways, including the reffing. At the same time, the ongoing coverage ("this is what we've been hoping for all season" was the B1G network messaging leading up to the game) really hurts other schools recruiting against tOSU and UM for four and five star kids. So the conference continues to be the big two little eight of decades past. Finally, when the other schools are under manned they get pasted in OOC and bowl games. And tOSU and UM get pasted because they expect to be able to grab, hold and cheat like they get away with in B1G games.
Even the MGO Board had a thread about how 2 weeks ago about how MIchigan got most of the calls. The most obvious bad call was a Michigan player spearing Haskins with a head to head hit after he had slid down. Player should have been ejected--no personal foul called even, and no review either. Also, a BS face mask call. Week before when Maryland went for 2 in overtime and could have won the game, an offensive lineman was blocking in the endzone way past the line of scrimmage and it wasn't called on a pass play. An extremely important play and call that went against OSU..
Also, OSU carved up Michigan on the very first drive, and generally moved the ball very well from the start. One first half drive was stopped when there was an extremely obvious hold on Johnny Dixon that wasn't called. So, I don't get the idea that the game turned sometime after the beginning.
yeah....I wasn't speaking about that game in specificity. I was speaking in terms of how the B1G continues to be tOSU, Michigan and a bunch of other schools they pay to keep us in the conference in football. I don't think that is even an arguable point. The conference continues to be bastardized by preserving the year end matchup in terms of the ridiculous divisions, the scheduling challenges each school is burdened with to preserve that game and the years in and out horrible calls that go in UM and tOSU's favor.
You have said the same thing about 20 times; don't you get tired of ineffectively repeating yourself.
I think what Don Brown (and other coaches, including Narduzzi...remember when he was incensed during the VT game that they actually threw flags?) are trying to do is utilize a theory that they won't call PI/defensive holding all the time (much in the same way they don't call offensive holding on lineman every time but could) and utilize this philosophy to play overly aggressive man defense which allows you to do other interesting things with pressure and underneath coverage.
If referees make calling holding/PI on the DBs, this defense will not work.
It will be interesting to see how officiating progresses and if Brown adapts.
If referees make calling holding/PI on the DBs, this defense will not work.
It will be interesting to see how officiating progresses and if Brown adapts.
https://saturdaytradition.com/big-ten-football/much-laundry-look-b1gs-penalized-teams-last-5-years/
Number of penalties called from 2013-2017:
Ohio State 411
Nebraska 396
Michigan State 392
Maryland 391
Indiana 381
Illinois 375
Rutgers 358
Michigan 332
Minnesota 326
Penn State 319
Wisconsin 318
Purdue 313
Iowa 302
Northwestern 279
Number of penalties called from 2013-2017:
Ohio State 411
Nebraska 396
Michigan State 392
Maryland 391
Indiana 381
Illinois 375
Rutgers 358
Michigan 332
Minnesota 326
Penn State 319
Wisconsin 318
Purdue 313
Iowa 302
Northwestern 279
I'm glad that you posted this, because I believe that Big 10 football officiating has improved and become less biased this decade. If someone thinks that Big 10 football officiating is bad, just watch the average pro game.
With the above said, sometimes it's not the amount of penalties called, but when they're called, such as a hold on a big run when there has been holding happening for the whole game but no penalties. Also, prior to replay, Big 10 football officiating was biased, and they often didn't even try to hide it, like the noise issue in the 1993 UM game or the out-of-bounds call on Tony Johnson in the 2002 UM game.
I've often wondered why college football can't be like college basketball, in that the latter sport does not have specific conference officials; hoops officials referee several conferences.
This really means nothing unless you include the yardage assessed. False starts versus PI calls.
you only need to show tOSU's overtime win run with T-Pryor and the INT that wasn't reviewed to know the story. I can name ten calls that went against PSU in games versus tOSU and Michigan before you can get to a single call that went PSU's way in any of the games since joining the B1G.
The way I saw it, the calls generally favored Michigan for a good part of the game. The refs were doing their part to get the conference champ, and one of the B1G's two sacred cows, into the playoffs -- (since everyone pretty much knew that game was effectively the conference championship).
Then, as Ohio State extended its lead in the 2nd half, and it became clear that Harbaugh and Michigan were pretty well determined to choke another game away to the Bucks, the refs said screw it, this is a hopeless mission. At that point the calls started to even out.
But but but… once there was a missed hold that went against OSU in a game that OSU still won!!!!!!
B1G TEAM Penalty Yards/Game
Nebraska 55.98
Maryland 55.14
Indiana 55.06
Michigan State 53.82
Illinois 52.92
Ohio State 52.19
Rutgers 48.15
Michigan 45.98
Purdue 45.66
Wisconsin 43.21
Minnesota 42.94
Penn State 40.68
Northwestern 39.38
Iowa 38.83
Sorry...until you address egregious calls like:
- toe in, heel out
- Johnson's catch a yard in bounds
- the crooked walk
- Not replayed INT
- five holds not called on Terrell Pryor's game winning TD
- clock expired for four seconds before a long FG with no penalty
- and "you're lucky to be here"
- (and I could come up with 100 more with a little time)
In case you haven't noticed I was not replying to you, Lion84 requested penalty yardage. Please continue to not discuss the point
Happy to discuss it but it means little. In the years of PSU being in the B1G, I can give you give games that had egregious errors in favor of the golden teams that cost PSU the game. I can't think of a single instance the other way. And, living in Ohio, I've had this conversation several time. Most end up agreeing with me. In other cases, fans can't disagree. In no case has anyone come up with any calls that cost their team a game against PSU.
I had that chat with some scUM fans when out in MI a while back .... they just laughed and smiled ... knowingly!
It's true! Most just agree. When someone doesn't, I bring up several egregious examples and invite them to rebut. That is pretty much the end of the conversation.
I think one fact that lends credence to the ref bias for the 2 Darlings is the Bowl records of bo5h UM and OSU. If these 2 programs were truly as dominant as their fans bases and the Big Ten want all to believe, then they would have Bowl records similar to USC’s, Alabama’s, FSU’s, or Penn State’s.
That both Michigan, especially under their god Bo, and pre-Urban OSU have losing records in Bowls points to having their way in-conference and struggling OOC with neutral officiating.
That both Michigan, especially under their god Bo, and pre-Urban OSU have losing records in Bowls points to having their way in-conference and struggling OOC with neutral officiating.
over the past 20 years since PSU has joined the big ten, you can almost tell how well a Big Ten team is going to do in a bowl by how many holding penalties they called for in the first quarter and a half of play. If the refs call a few holding penalties early, most big ten teams suffer as holding is so rampant that if they cannot hold, a lot of their offense becomes ineffective.
You are a morally bereft (especially when it comes to criticizing certain Buckeye patron Saints) individual who thinks he's smarter than he is, while also liking to lecture folk.
We don't appreciate visitors of that type.
I don't agree with stormingnorm on much, but I do agree with him on you. You aren't worthy of posting on our board.
Two things are undoubtedly true. Defensive back (and OL) holding are called very differently by different crews, and they can have a huge impact on a game depending on the teams and the matchups. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they determined the outcome of this game though. Michigan lost because their D-line lost the battle to the Ohio State O-line. They coudln't get to Haskins. So the secondary had to either hold people or get toasted. The holding calls might have been the effect more than the cause.
On the other side of the ball -- Ohio State has a great D-line and they got healthy and played great, and Michigan's OL wasn't able to handle them so they held -- until they weren't allowed to hold.
On the other side of the ball -- Ohio State has a great D-line and they got healthy and played great, and Michigan's OL wasn't able to handle them so they held -- until they weren't allowed to hold.
I do think the Big10 is way to stuck in past history. When we joined I remember talking to a UM fan and he said aren't you excited about hopefully playing in the Rose Bowl? I responded, Who cares about the Rose Bowl I want to win National Championships. He gave me a puzzled look. Even today you see that idiot Delany pushing OSU into the playoff instead of Conference Champs PSU. So stupid when he should have done what the SEC does and push for both. I bet if it was OSU instead of PSU he would have pushed harder for them. They are way to tied into those 2 school especially since only one of them has really been all that good for a long time. Until this changes the Big10 will always play second fiddle to the SEC. and by changing I also mean the crap officiating as other have pointed out - I was at the OSU game when the ball clearly hit the ground on an OSO "interception"and they even showed it on the video board but somehow they replay wasn't working and later the extra 5 seconds on what was already a long FG by OSU. Very weird stuff goes on when we play OSU and UM and I find it hard to entirely write off the just general crappy officiating because if so we would get a few blown call our way once in a while.
Delaney is a Drama Queen.... He thinks that the grid iron is a stage for his silly passion plays. The conference has lost prestige nationally because of this archaic nematode.
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Missed one of the better ones Oblivax....Hartsock bounce catch in 2003 with OSU down 6 with 1:20 left when it was 3rd and 16. OSU loses to us the Little10 would only have won BCS game rep....OSU came back and won because of that bogus call and the Little10 got two teams in! Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMM!
Come on, balls that hit the ground and bounce 3 feet into the receiver's chest get called complete ALL THE TIME. It's not like there was a referee staring right at it!
Ahia state players are thugs with no discipline collect large numbers of PF penalties due to their dirty play. Even the crooked B10 refs can't avoid dropping the flag on ahia state.
It is a little-known fact that the above post by michnittlion is actually the fifth verse of the Alanis Morrissette hit song, "Ironic". Too bad the fifth verse didn't make the final version of the record.
Oh, and OSU just scored on Michigan again.
