Tyson Fury might go down as one of the best Boxers ever. Totally Dominated Wilder..................
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
- Start date
Need to do more than dominate a tomato can to be considered among the greatest. The heavyweight division has been a joke for years.
You have to beat the best to BE the best. It's not like he beat Joe Louis or Ali in their primes.
You have to beat the best to BE the best. It's not like he beat Joe Louis or Ali in their primes.
The greatest fighter conversation---So, what about Rocky Marciano ? NSFW
The greatest fighter conversation---So, what about Rocky Marciano ? NSFW
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I think the most physically gifted heavyweight was Lennox Lewis- he had it all- speed, size, and power. He didn't love fighting it seemed, but when he wanted to he could beat anybody. What he lacked was the never quit drive of an Ali or Louis.
Once Cus D'Amato went down, everyone eyed Mike as a pawn for the big paycheck.
In addition to fighters already mentioned, Fury doesn't beat Holmes or Frazier. On the fence about Holyfield.
Tomato soup cans are easier opponents than whole tomato cans. Tossup with tomato puree.
The giant fighters of today would murder the guys from the 70s and earlier. Marciano would be a super middleweight today. Fury’s reaction times compare favorably to Ali and he weighs 50 pounds more. A guy like Lewis and Klitchsko would have annihilated Louis. Louis fought nearly no one who weighed over 200 pounds. The only fighter I see who would have been able to compete with some of these guys is Foreman. He is big enough and had enough power to make them respect him and had a good enough jab to back up anyone.
Maybe. But the boxers of today while bigger and stronger are simply not as skilled and the talent pool for various reasons is simply not as deep. Today’s fighters don’t fight as many fights or rounds and there are not as many quality opponents or trainers because of boxing’s overall decline. That’s why guys like Foreman and Larry Holmes were able to have relative success well into there 40’s against much younger guys.
I'm not suggesting Wilder is a top 10 all-time Heavyweight, but calling him a tomato can is clueless.
Did you guys actually watch the fight? Fury is a true sweet scientist. He attacked donte, pressed forward behind devastating jabs. He changed his strategy after the first fight and stayed committed. I’m SUPER impressed with him. He’s 6’9” with feet, smarts and a great team, I think he’s legit. I thoroughly enjoyed the fight.
Brought back street cred to the older shaved head beer gut guys . Did you see the video of him seemingly licking blood off the neck if Fury ?
Saw it live. Me and Son2 SCREAMED with delight.
Honestly, he’s so much more than the fun big fat guy.
Honestly, he’s so much more than the fun big fat guy.
Do you have any data to support that claim? I am extremely skeptical of it. Ali’s jab was FAST.
He did win that one. It was easily 9-3, Fury poking and weaving out pointing Wilder until Wilder knocked him down late. Then Fury popped back up like a movie and beat the snot out of Wilder.
two fights, two different approaches from Fury and 15-4 in rounds later.....why on earth would we want a III when Joshua is waiting??
As to greatest or not. That is a difficult comparison. Better than Ali? Tyson? Louis? I don’t know but seriously....can you imagine how small ALL of those guys would be next to Fury at 6-9 275 lbs and at least reasonable ability to box? Ali was 220 on a heavy day at 6-1. Tyson....would only deliver body blows. 5-10 v 6-9.
So in pretty much every single sport, the athletes have gotten way bigger, faster, and stronger. Yet, people want to argue that boxers from over 30 years ago can kick the current champs ass ? Probably not.
Ever? Really? I guess in he dominates for 4-5 more years or something he could be in the conversation. Boxing is just about dead...hell the best ever pound for pound had a drunk MMA Irishmen go toe to toe with him for about 9 rounds. There is a reason boxing is back on regular cable now....they had no choice. The sport is drying up.
There is a sports science episode ESPN put out you can look up. Reaction time refers not to how fast one can jab, but to how fast one can recognize a punch is coming and slip it. Fury has an unbelievable ability to recognize a punch is coming and to slip it and fire back. The people in this thread deriding the modern heavyweights have really zero idea about boxing.
I have to agree about Fury. His ability to evade is impressive. And also is fast for so effing big. Seriously. The champs of yesteryear would have a very difficult time for the bombs raining down from above let alone trying to climb a ladder to connect
If modern boxing is so great then how in the hell did George Foreman win and compete for the title 20 years past his prime?
Because George is one of the greatest boxers of all time. Ali literally needed everything to go in his favor to beat him. And George last fought in 1997. Boxing hasn’t stopped advancing in the last 23 years even if you haven’t been paying attention.
The fact that Deontay Wilder, albeit a tremendous physical specimen, with very limited technical boxing skills was as dominant as he was proves my point. Guys from yesteryear had better competition more rounds more fights better trainers and were much more technically proficient than most of today’s heavy’s.
Lewis vs Vitali Klitschko was going down as an excellent fight until the doctor stopped it. It goes down as a loss, but VK was a beast. His only other loss was when he didn't rise for the 10th vs Chris Byrd when he had a torn rotator cuff. Controversial to not finish the fight, but it's his body.
Either would have probably been a great fight for Fury, who might be undefeated, but his list of wins is among the least impressive you will find for a guy labeled as "one of the best". He ended Wladamir's title reign, but probably 2-3 years past his prime (again, both Klitschko brothers were probably the two best in the world for a bit, but refused to fight each other).
Mike Tyson's rise and age might have been spectacular, but he what exactly is his best win? Over the hill Larry Holmes? His 3 years in prison coincided with guys like Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Foreman's comeback, Moorer getting popular. Holyfield out-classed him and frustrated him and he didn't try Lewis until it became an obvious cash in.
Ali has probably the most impressive list of wins. He ushered out the old guard and dominated the new guard. It's probably criminal he and Foreman never fought again, considering Foreman just obliterated people up until his last defeat in '77 when he just quit for 10 years, only to go on and have second career that was impressive for his age (or a detriment to how many great heavyweights there was in the '90s).
Throwing in the politics of how these fights are made, it's very hard to determine much. Fury needs to make a match with Joshua, titles be damned, if he wants to prop up his legacy. It took em over 2 years to have the rematch off the draw. No point in having #3 sooner. If he can beat him, he'd be pushing towards the forefront, but it's still a weak division.
Either would have probably been a great fight for Fury, who might be undefeated, but his list of wins is among the least impressive you will find for a guy labeled as "one of the best". He ended Wladamir's title reign, but probably 2-3 years past his prime (again, both Klitschko brothers were probably the two best in the world for a bit, but refused to fight each other).
Mike Tyson's rise and age might have been spectacular, but he what exactly is his best win? Over the hill Larry Holmes? His 3 years in prison coincided with guys like Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Foreman's comeback, Moorer getting popular. Holyfield out-classed him and frustrated him and he didn't try Lewis until it became an obvious cash in.
Ali has probably the most impressive list of wins. He ushered out the old guard and dominated the new guard. It's probably criminal he and Foreman never fought again, considering Foreman just obliterated people up until his last defeat in '77 when he just quit for 10 years, only to go on and have second career that was impressive for his age (or a detriment to how many great heavyweights there was in the '90s).
Throwing in the politics of how these fights are made, it's very hard to determine much. Fury needs to make a match with Joshua, titles be damned, if he wants to prop up his legacy. It took em over 2 years to have the rematch off the draw. No point in having #3 sooner. If he can beat him, he'd be pushing towards the forefront, but it's still a weak division.
I'm not deriding modern heavyweights by any means. 6-9 275 speaks for itself. He may be everything you say; I have not studied him. I DO recall boxing experts (and scientists) marveling at the speed of Ali's jab back in the day, and I recall seeing a magazine spread where they used cameras with advanced shutter speeds to take photos of his jab, which was extremely quick. Faster than virtually every other boxer, regardless of weight classification. Who knows? Maybe Fury could slip it. I actually enjoy these kinds of "who's better?" in a given sport arguments. They make for entertaining speculation and debate.
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Height confers a tremendous advantage. The ESPN sports science stuff is really good. It is really the only programming on the whole network which I find interesting. Throwing a punch on a downward trajectory gives the benefit of from 10-40% more sensory information than throwing upward. Try it some time. Tuck your chin and look up with your eyes. Now lean back and look down.
A matchup of heavyweights would mean the taller fighter has about a 10% advantage but when we are talking about fighters with similar reaction time that is huge. The idea that Wilder is some kind of stiff because he is unpolished is ridiculous. He has about a 7 foot wingspan and gets off his right hand in roughly .2 seconds and delivers a punch with nearly 1400 foot pounds of pressure. Freddie Roach, Fury’s trainer, figured out that pressuring Wilder and getting closer to him is the way to beat him because he can’t fight in close, mostly because he has never had to do so.
I don’t see any way a guy like Ali, who would give up between 6 or 7 inches to Fury and 50 pounds, would come close to hurting him. Watch the Rumble in the Jungle. Ali’s rope-a-dope isn’t some genius strategy. It was desperation. He said himself many times in the aftermath of the fight that he realIzed in round one that he had no other recourse because George was so incredible at cuttting off the ring. Ali’s chin was truly elite and he never quit, but how would he hurt a guy the size of Fury? He didn’t punch that hard relative to heavyweights of his own time much less today.
