Title droughts per weight class - Iowa vs. Penn State

[Conewago]

this is some crazy stuff when you think about it

WT	IOWA	Yrs Since
118/125	2021 - Spencer Lee	3​
126/133	2017 - Cory Clark	7​
134/141	2004 - Cliff Moore	20​
142/149	2010 - Brent Metcalf	14​
150/157	2013 - Derek St John	11​
158/165	2008 - Mark Perry	16​
167/174	2010 - Jay Borschel	14​
177/184	1988 - Royce Alger	36​
190/197	1997 - Lee Fullhart	27​
UNL/285	2003 - Steve Mocco	21​

WT	PSU	Yrs Since
118/125	2016 - Nico	8​
126/133	2022 - RBY	2​
134/141	2022 - NickLee	2​
142/149	2018 - Zain	6​
150/157	2024 - Levi	0​
158/165	2018 - Cenzo	6​
167/174	2024 - Starocci	0​
177/184	2023 - Brooks	1​
190/197	2024 - Brooks	0​
UNL/285	2024 - Kerkvliet	0​

 

[Conewago]

this is some crazy stuff when you think about it

WT	IOWA	Yrs Since
118/125	2021 - Spencer Lee	2​
126/133	2017 - Cory Clark	6​
134/141	2004 - Cliff Moore	19​
142/149	2010 - Brent Metcalf	13​
150/157	2013 - Derek St John	10​
158/165	2008 - Mark Perry	15​
167/174	2010 - Jay Borschel	13​
177/184	1988 - Royce Alger	35​
190/197	1997 - Lee Fullhart	26​
UNL/285	2003 - Steve Mocco	20​

WT	PSU	Yrs Since
118/125	2016 - Nico	7​
126/133	2022 - RBY	1​
134/141	2022 - NickLee	1​
142/149	2018 - Zain	5​
150/157	2024 - Levi	0​
158/165	2018 - Cenzo	5​
167/174	2024 - Starocci	0​
177/184	2023 - Brooks	1​
190/197	2024 - Brooks	0​
UNL/285	2024 - Kerkvliet	0​

1) That's right - Iowa hasn't won a title at 177/184 since Royce freaking Alger.
2) It's not that Iowa is bad. They're decent. It's that they struggle to produce individual champs while PSU wins all of them LOL, and they struggle badly at the upper weights (165 and above).

Iowa had some big changes in the mid 80s.

1987 was a giant disappointment. Gable had Xs printed and even placed on the singlets to symbolize their standing poised to win ten national championships in a row. The class of 82 turned out to choke as seniors that year - they lost a famous dual to Penn State, then another to someone else (Michigan? I know they lost to Michigan one of those years), then got embarrassed by Iowa State at nationals. Gable later said the class of 82 had a bad work ethic and it took two more classes following that bad example before the Brands et al classes cleaned it up.

But they still only had 5 champions of 158 or above after Alger: Joe Williams 3x, Joel Sharratt, Daryl Weber, Mark Reiland, and Lee Fullhart.

I don't know why. Maybe it was the departure of J Robinson (who had a bitter dispute with the University over his camps- Gable, who thought Robinson was being hardheaded, sided with the University, something Robinson never forgot). But for comparison, Cael's had 6 lower weight (157 and below) champs, 4 of them multiple-time champs, in the last 10 years whereas Gable had 5 upper weight champs in his last 10, and only 1 (Joe Williams) won more than 1.

 

[Conewago]

2 of our other rivals

WT OKLA ST Yrs Since
118/125 1998 - Teague Moore 26
126/133 2011 - Jordan Oliver 13
134/141 2017 - Dean Heil 7
142/149 2013 - Jordan Oliver 11
150/157 2014 - Alex Dieringer 10
158/165 2016 - Alex Dieringer 8
167/174 2014 - Chris Perry 10
177/184 2003 - Jake Rosholt 21
190/197 2021 - A.J. Ferrari ROFL 3
UNL/285 2005 - Steve Mocco 19

WT OHIO ST Yrs Since
118/125 2015 - Nathan Tomasello 9
126/133 2013 - Logan Stieber 11
134/141 2024 - Jesse Mendez 0
142/149 Never - Nobody
150/157 Never - Nobody
158/165 1986 - Jude Skove 38
167/174 2016 - Myles Martin 8
177/184 2008 - Mike Pucillo 16
190/197 1993 - Rex Holman 31
UNL/285 2018 - Kyle Snyder 6

 

[El-Jefe]

Cornell?

 

[Conewago]

Cornell?

Gets a bit speculative because Cornell's first champ was at 175 pounds, which, I mean, I GUESS that's equivalent to 174?? I have no idea what some of these weights would be considered equal to now.

Dake helps Cornell a lot here, doesn't he?

125 - Troy Nickerson - 15 years
133 - Vito - 0 years
141 - Yianni - 5 years
149 - Yianni - 2 years
157 - Dake - 12 years
165 - Dake 11 years
174 - Glenn Stafford - 95 years lol
184 - Dean - 8 years
197 - Simaz - 12 years
Heavy - nobody - never

 

[jack66]

2 of our other rivals

WT OKLA ST Yrs Since
118/125 1998 - Teague Moore 26
126/133 2011 - Jordan Oliver 13
134/141 2017 - Dean Heil 7
142/149 2013 - Jordan Oliver 11
150/157 2014 - Alex Dieringer 10
158/165 2016 - Alex Dieringer 8
167/174 2014 - Chris Perry 10
177/184 2003 - Jake Rosholt 21
190/197 2021 - A.J. Ferrari ROFL 3
UNL/285 2005 - Steve Mocco 19

WT OHIO ST Yrs Since
118/125 2015 - Nathan Tomasello 9
126/133 2013 - Logan Stieber 11
134/141 2024 - Jesse Mendez 0
142/149 Never - Nobody
150/157 Never - Nobody
158/165 1986 - Jude Skove 38
167/174 2016 - Myles Martin 8
177/184 2008 - Mike Pucillo 16
190/197 1993 - Rex Holman 31
UNL/285 2018 - Kyle Snyder 6

So you're not going to count the honorary NC Ryan bestowed on Moore 4 years ago?

 

[Conewago]

So you're not going to count the honorary NC Ryan bestowed on Moore 4 years ago?

I was really looking forward to Noah Adams upsetting Moore in that final.

Adams hurt his shoulder the following summer, by the way, in case anyone ever wondered what happened to him. He's now a state trooper in WV.

 

[Ja1339]

this is some crazy stuff when you think about it

WT	IOWA	Yrs Since
118/125	2021 - Spencer Lee	3​
126/133	2017 - Cory Clark	7​
134/141	2004 - Cliff Moore	20​
142/149	2010 - Brent Metcalf	14​
150/157	2013 - Derek St John	11​
158/165	2008 - Mark Perry	16​
167/174	2010 - Jay Borschel	14​
177/184	1988 - Royce Alger	36​
190/197	1997 - Lee Fullhart	27​
UNL/285	2003 - Steve Mocco	21​

WT	PSU	Yrs Since
118/125	2016 - Nico	8​
126/133	2022 - RBY	2​
134/141	2022 - NickLee	2​
142/149	2018 - Zain	6​
150/157	2024 - Levi	0​
158/165	2018 - Cenzo	6​
167/174	2024 - Starocci	0​
177/184	2023 - Brooks	1​
190/197	2024 - Brooks	0​
UNL/285	2024 - Kerkvliet	0​

Seems like just yesterday when Royce Alger won 184 for Iowa, lol.

 

[Ja1339]

2 of our other rivals

WT OKLA ST Yrs Since
118/125 1998 - Teague Moore 26
126/133 2011 - Jordan Oliver 13
134/141 2017 - Dean Heil 7
142/149 2013 - Jordan Oliver 11
150/157 2014 - Alex Dieringer 10
158/165 2016 - Alex Dieringer 8
167/174 2014 - Chris Perry 10
177/184 2003 - Jake Rosholt 21
190/197 2021 - A.J. Ferrari ROFL 3
UNL/285 2005 - Steve Mocco 19

WT OHIO ST Yrs Since
118/125 2015 - Nathan Tomasello 9
126/133 2013 - Logan Stieber 11
134/141 2024 - Jesse Mendez 0
142/149 Never - Nobody
150/157 Never - Nobody
158/165 1986 - Jude Skove 38
167/174 2016 - Myles Martin 8
177/184 2008 - Mike Pucillo 16
190/197 1993 - Rex Holman 31
UNL/285 2018 - Kyle Snyder 6

Daton Fix would like you to count NCAA finalists 😆

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

25 combined years for Penn state, 169 for Iowa, 159 for Cornell with no champions ever at two weights, 128 for OSU and 119 for tOSU with no champions ever at two weights. Amazing!

 

[NittanyLion84]

and they struggle badly at the upper weights (165 and above).

It appears Iowa badly struggles at weights above 134/141.

 

[Pennstate1985]

It appears Iowa badly struggles at weights above 134/141.

Imagine that. Wonder why ...

 

[Ian]

this is some crazy stuff when you think about it

WT	IOWA	Yrs Since
118/125	2021 - Spencer Lee	3​
126/133	2017 - Cory Clark	7​
134/141	2004 - Cliff Moore	20​
142/149	2010 - Brent Metcalf	14​
150/157	2013 - Derek St John	11​
158/165	2008 - Mark Perry	16​
167/174	2010 - Jay Borschel	14​
177/184	1988 - Royce Alger	36​
190/197	1997 - Lee Fullhart	27​
UNL/285	2003 - Steve Mocco	21​

WT	PSU	Yrs Since
118/125	2016 - Nico	8​
126/133	2022 - RBY	2​
134/141	2022 - NickLee	2​
142/149	2018 - Zain	6​
150/157	2024 - Levi	0​
158/165	2018 - Cenzo	6​
167/174	2024 - Starocci	0​
177/184	2023 - Brooks	1​
190/197	2024 - Brooks	0​
UNL/285	2024 - Kerkvliet	0​

Iowa has only had three guys win titles in the Cael era?

 

[Ian]

Technically Metzger and Borschel count and Ramos is in there, too, so 6 guys in 15 yrs… and two team championships. And only 4 guys and 1 title if you don’t count Cael’s first season.

 

[SlipperyPete12]

How long do the PSU droughts at 142/149 & 158/165 last? Those could both end next year. Maybe the 118/125 one could come to an end too?

 

[Pennstate1985]

How long do the PSU droughts at 142/149 & 158/165 last? Those could both end next year. Maybe the 118/125 one could come to an end too?

I didn't realize that five day dry spells were considered droughts now.

 

[SlipperyPete12]

I didn't realize that five day dry spells were considered droughts now.

 

[Conewago]

How long do the PSU droughts at 142/149 & 158/165 last? Those could both end next year. Maybe the 118/125 one could come to an end too?

After the way he wrestled this year, it would be an upset if Psycho doesn't win.

 

[Conewago]

Iowa has only had three guys win titles in the Cael era?

7. But several were a good while ago. Only 3 in the last 10 years. Of these, I actually really liked Cory and Borschel.

Bent Metcalf
Jay Borschel
Matt McDonough
DSJ
Tony Ramos
Cory Clark
Spencer Lee

 

[Conewago]

Seems like just yesterday when Royce Alger won 184 for Iowa, lol.

I wasn't around for it but imo the stall calls Alger got against Dan Mayo were BS

 

[Pennstate1985]

7. But several were a good while ago. Only 3 in the last 10 years. Of these, I actually really liked Cory and Borschel.

Bent Metcalf
Jay Borschel
Matt McDonough
DSJ
Tony Ramos
Cory Clark
Spencer Lee

Am I crazy for thinking on Matt Mcdonough's best days that he was on par with SL on his best days? Before he got injured, Matt was 100-4 in his RSFR, SO, and JR years with two titles and a second. Everyone thinks SL is the Second Coming but Matt had a great career and no one seems to appreciate it.

 

[El-Jefe]

How long do the PSU droughts at 142/149 & 158/165 last? Those could both end next year. Maybe the 118/125 one could come to an end too?

We've had David Taylor and Cenzo at 165 recently. "Drought" is relative.

 

[AgSurfer]

It appears Iowa badly struggles at weights above 134/141.

I think you could have stopped at the first five words and still been accurate.

 

[Used2BEerie]

I think you could have stopped at the first five words and still been accurate.

Probably could have saved a lot if typing if just went with “ Iowa bad”.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Am I crazy for thinking on Matt Mcdonough's best days that he was on par with SL on his best days? Before he got injured, Matt was 100-4 in his RSFR, SO, and JR years with two titles and a second. Everyone thinks SL is the Second Coming but Matt had a great career and no one seems to appreciate it.

His ability to pull in a single even when extremely extended always amazed me.

 

[El-Jefe]

Am I crazy for thinking on Matt Mcdonough's best days that he was on par with SL on his best days? Before he got injured, Matt was 100-4 in his RSFR, SO, and JR years with two titles and a second. Everyone thinks SL is the Second Coming but Matt had a great career and no one seems to appreciate it.

McDonough was an extremely good wrestler. It's a shame his SR year happened the way it did.

(Less of a shame that the same thing happened to Delgado.)

 

[AgSurfer]

Probably could have saved a lot if typing if just went with “ Iowa bad”.

Don’t forget that “bad” is also American slang. Rabid Iowa fans such as Ironbird would interpret such a post in a favorable way. It’s best to be explicit when trash talking about the competition. 👍

 

[smalls103]

i'm pretty sure Cornell has never had an AA at HWT

 

[Conewago]

McDonough was an extremely good wrestler. It's a shame his SR year happened the way it did.

(Less of a shame that the same thing happened to Delgado.)

Delgado and Heil are the double trouble of stalling in the aughts. I booed the TV every time I saw them.

 

[KidDagger]

this is some crazy stuff when you think about it

WT	IOWA	Yrs Since
118/125	2021 - Spencer Lee	3​
126/133	2017 - Cory Clark	7​
134/141	2004 - Cliff Moore	20​
142/149	2010 - Brent Metcalf	14​
150/157	2013 - Derek St John	11​
158/165	2008 - Mark Perry	16​
167/174	2010 - Jay Borschel	14​
177/184	1988 - Royce Alger	36​
190/197	1997 - Lee Fullhart	27​
UNL/285	2003 - Steve Mocco	21​

WT	PSU	Yrs Since
118/125	2016 - Nico	8​
126/133	2022 - RBY	2​
134/141	2022 - NickLee	2​
142/149	2018 - Zain	6​
150/157	2024 - Levi	0​
158/165	2018 - Cenzo	6​
167/174	2024 - Starocci	0​
177/184	2023 - Brooks	1​
190/197	2024 - Brooks	0​
UNL/285	2024 - Kerkvliet	0​

Is PSU curse at 125 real?

 

[Conewago]

Is PSU curse at 125 real?

No, it's complete BS. We have a champ there more recently than any other major program besides Iowa and Michigan (Suriano). Look at Oklahoma State - Teague Moore was before any recent college wrestler was born, including Austin O'Connor, who seems like he's in his 30s. I wouldn't say we're great at 125 but we're essentially as good as anyone.

Plus in my opinion, 125 is kinda a crapshoot weight almost like how 106 is in high school.

 

[Conewago]

i'm pretty sure Cornell has never had an AA at HWT

You're right! I just looked it up.

And they call themselves a wrestling program.

 

[El-Jefe]

No, it's complete BS. We have a champ there more recently than any other major program besides Iowa and Michigan (Suriano). Look at Oklahoma State - Teague Moore was before any recent college wrestler was born, including Austin O'Connor, who seems like he's in his 30s. I wouldn't say we're great at 125 but we're essentially as good as anyone.

Plus in my opinion, 125 is kinda a crapshoot weight almost like how 106 is in high school.

Ohio State had Tomasello, and not sure if you include Arizona State as a major program of late (historically yes) but they had Robles and now Figs.

But the point is still correct: a "125 curse" is a complete fabrication. It's a feel-good excuse, nothing more.

 

[Delcolion915]

After the way he wrestled this year, it would be an upset if Psycho doesn't win.

Who do you think would be better off at 165 next season between Mitchell and Levi? Would one do better than the other or would they be better off simply staying at the current weight classes?

 

[jack66]

Delgado and Heil are the double trouble of stalling in the aughts. I booed the TV every time I saw them.

Delgado's and Heil's wrestling styles were largely responsible for rule changes, the 5-count for riding legs, and the danger count.

 

[SpikingWhamos]

Ohio State had Tomasello, and not sure if you include Arizona State as a major program of late (historically yes) but they had Robles and now Figs.

But the point is still correct: a "125 curse" is a complete fabrication. It's a feel-good excuse, nothing more.

Nico's 125 win was after Tomasello's (and Robles but Figs as you said has that one anyway), which I think was the point.

 

[HikeNatParks]

Is PSU curse at 125 real?

If any Hawk fan wants to continue calling an 8-year drought a curse, do they accept their own curses at weights 141-thru-HWY, ranging from 11 to 36 years?

 

[backdrft76]

If any Hawk fan wants to continue calling an 8-year drought a curse, do they accept their own curses at weights 141-thru-HWY, ranging from 11 to 36 years?

He's only posted in his own thread, and yet you tagged him here. Are you trying to pollute the waters?

 

[HikeNatParks]

He's only posted in his own thread, and yet you tagged him here. Are you trying to pollute the waters?

Many apologies! I've since deleted the tag from mine. Can we get it out of your reply?
If not, I suggest you delete your entire reply. Again, my sincere apology for the potential pollution.

 

[jack66]

If any Hawk fan wants to continue calling an 8-year drought a curse, do they accept their own curses at weights 141-thru-HWY, ranging from 11 to 36 years?

To be fair, going several years without a national champ is a bit different than going 7 years with a total of 2 NCAA points.