Roll around a couple of times and suddently anotherwise tight match is blown open-score looks like total domination.
This is Why I Hate Freestyle
- Thread starter Pitchfork Rebel
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In my not so humble opinion guts and leg laces should be limited to a 4 or maybe 6 point move.
I heard that if enough fans whine about freestyle on wrestling message boards, the UWW and IOC will change the rules to folkstyle. They didn't provide a number but I figure something like a billion would seal the deal.
Let’s get cracking then!
LOL not enough paper on this planet for me to tell you all my reasons for hating it!
I think it would be more effective to have Lar have an exclusive interview (on Flo of course) on why it is so bad
I like stuff in FS. The step outs add a different dimension and would like to see that applied to Folkstyle. It keeps the matches going. I do love the Folkstyle scrambling which is much harder to do in FS.
This is why some good Folkstyle wrestlers struggle in FS, when their scrambling is a lot of their strength
This is why some good Folkstyle wrestlers struggle in FS, when their scrambling is a lot of their strength
oh you mean when the guy has to hold him for a 4 count?big difference!
Ohio State guy can't defend bottom.
Struggle with math much? Go watch Bo vs Moore that cradle would be a six point swing. 2+4=???????
You heard wrong. Message boards allow the exchange of idea (complaints, aka "bitching") between unaccomplished wannabees, i.e., you and me.
Especially during the interminably long off-season when we only have a few things to discuss:
Freestyle, Greco, and which Eighth grade phenom will be winning the 2030 NCAA 174 crown..
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I'm all for exchanging ideas. Yours is less an idea than a dead horse that's been expressed a thousand times, often in more constructive ways. If you don't like freestyle don't watch it. You're certainly free to whine about it here, of course, but then I'm also free to point out how tired those who do enjoy it are of the persistent bleating.
you missed my 2nd response have to have a 4 count in folk but not in free!or maybe you cant count to 4??
Problem with step out is it would reward wrestling like Iowa has perfected when they are riding. They walk guys out of bounds repeatedly compiling 20 or 30 seconds of ride time each time. Giving them a point each time would be ludicrous.
you know they guy getting pushed out has a say in this and can circle in to wrestle . I love both but the thing i like about Free is it is impossible to run away and forces you to engage your opponent .
Big difference, in folk you need 15 points to tech so a 6 pt move, td to 4 nf, doesn’t even get you half way there. In Free you can lace right to a tech in a couple seconds.
I have seen too many times where the bottom wrestler gets to his feet and leans to put back pressure into the Iowa wrestler who in-turn lifts the bottom wrestler to where his feet are barely touching the ground and the Iowa wrestler carries him out of bounds as the bottom guy is fighting to stay in. If you add the step out then something should be done to also keep this from happening.
Fight the ****ing lace and you have nothing to complain about.
We've never had a better FS product. Criteria blows the whole "hold on and hang out for the next period" nonsense that can make folk brutal to watch. It doesn't positively reinforce leaving the competitive surface to gain advantage, either. The amount of times I saw athletes purposely touch the floor or move their body out of bounds to get a restart at NCAA's was exhausting. Leaving the competitive surface should not be positively reinforced, it should be penalized.
I've used this analogy before... Folkstyle is accessible, shitty light beer. Freestyle is craft beer. Greco is fine wine. It's a palette issue.
The rest of the world values fighting technique with technique rather than penalizing someone with a good turn by holding them up and slowing it down because poor johnny or jane can't defend it.
This is like people saying, "Man, I love watching the last 2min of a basketball game..." It's a borderline bastardization of the sport at that point.
We've never had a better FS product. Criteria blows the whole "hold on and hang out for the next period" nonsense that can make folk brutal to watch. It doesn't positively reinforce leaving the competitive surface to gain advantage, either. The amount of times I saw athletes purposely touch the floor or move their body out of bounds to get a restart at NCAA's was exhausting. Leaving the competitive surface should not be positively reinforced, it should be penalized.
I've used this analogy before... Folkstyle is accessible, shitty light beer. Freestyle is craft beer. Greco is fine wine. It's a palette issue.
The rest of the world values fighting technique with technique rather than penalizing someone with a good turn by holding them up and slowing it down because poor johnny or jane can't defend it.
This is like people saying, "Man, I love watching the last 2min of a basketball game..." It's a borderline bastardization of the sport at that point.
Lol, yah, I'm guilty of watching the last 2 minutes of basketball games. Keep the hope alive with Greco. I prefer 2 buck chuck.
A push out rule could only be applied to neutral.
Some wrestling at the edge can be dynamic, while camping out at the edge should be penalized in all disciplines. I prefer a rule where a step out point requires two distinct points OB (2 feet, 1 foot and a hand, 1 foot and a knee, ...). One foot alone can be a bit accidental during a move sequence and simply isn't eggregious enough in my book.
Or: work harder to stay further from the boundary.
As an aside, I asked Mrs. Rebel (watches with me once in a while) what she thought of that match. She told me that as a former computer science major it looked like an infinite loop.
Other than the fact that folk developed more organically, one thing I prefer about folkstyle is in only scoring "back points" if the offensive wrestler truly has SUSTAINED CONTROL.
Here especially, Moore's back is barely exposed at all anyway. However, Macchiavello was the better wrestler IMO.
Wrestling, more than almost any other sport, is truly about dominance and control. That's why the quick back point sequences of freestyle feel kind of fake if you're used to folk. But you don't hear wrestlers themselves complaining much about it, just some US fans.
But I still agree with some above posters that the overall quality of freestyle in recent years is excellent. Ideally, both sports would remain as they are, with a few tweaks here and there. I don't think either free or folk needs drastic changes.
Here especially, Moore's back is barely exposed at all anyway. However, Macchiavello was the better wrestler IMO.
Wrestling, more than almost any other sport, is truly about dominance and control. That's why the quick back point sequences of freestyle feel kind of fake if you're used to folk. But you don't hear wrestlers themselves complaining much about it, just some US fans.
But I still agree with some above posters that the overall quality of freestyle in recent years is excellent. Ideally, both sports would remain as they are, with a few tweaks here and there. I don't think either free or folk needs drastic changes.
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I admit I haven't watched as much freestyle as many of you, and that particularly goes for Moore.
If this match is any indication, Moore STILL has no offense to his right side, which is how we neutralized him via Cassar. Good luck beating the rest of American freestylers, let alone the world, in that case.
If this match is any indication, Moore STILL has no offense to his right side, which is how we neutralized him via Cassar. Good luck beating the rest of American freestylers, let alone the world, in that case.
Dan Gable lost one of his first freestyle matches because he went for a Granby roll twice LMAO.
I'll share some thoughts that have been gestating in my mind. Feel free to pull them apart though--I'm hardly an expert.
It's been discussed some on twitter recently--notably Yianni bringing it up--but in general, I agree Folkstyle rewards the better conditioned athlete more, and Free the more technical wrestler.
Taking that further: I think Folkstyle is a reflection of our culture and values in the US. It's the sport that "anyone" can do--and if you commit yourself enough, do well in. You don't have to be 6', or 250#. You don't have to be all that athletic (to a point). You don't need expensive gear. You just have to be willing to work very, very hard (and smart). To that end, even though youth participation is a perennial concern/area of focus--it's an everyman sport. If we ever got to the point in this country where we switched fully to Free, I think some may see it as an existential threat for these reasons. The more athletic would shine even more--and the scales tip more to development of elite technique (at a cost, usually) than to just crazy conditioning.
On the other side of the coin--the folkstyle grind (and the many matches we have our college guys compete in every season) wears bodies out, big time. Our kids don't show the wear and tear, but goodness, how about all these 6 & 7 year seniors in college burning out these days? Do we think Jordan Burroughs would still be competing on the world stage if he only wrestled folk? Maybe--he's a bit of a unicorn--but I think many times the elite wind up preferring Free because it showcases what they've developed in skill with less wear and tear on the body.
All of this is to say--I still see no reason why we can't/shouldn't continue to do both.
It's been discussed some on twitter recently--notably Yianni bringing it up--but in general, I agree Folkstyle rewards the better conditioned athlete more, and Free the more technical wrestler.
Taking that further: I think Folkstyle is a reflection of our culture and values in the US. It's the sport that "anyone" can do--and if you commit yourself enough, do well in. You don't have to be 6', or 250#. You don't have to be all that athletic (to a point). You don't need expensive gear. You just have to be willing to work very, very hard (and smart). To that end, even though youth participation is a perennial concern/area of focus--it's an everyman sport. If we ever got to the point in this country where we switched fully to Free, I think some may see it as an existential threat for these reasons. The more athletic would shine even more--and the scales tip more to development of elite technique (at a cost, usually) than to just crazy conditioning.
On the other side of the coin--the folkstyle grind (and the many matches we have our college guys compete in every season) wears bodies out, big time. Our kids don't show the wear and tear, but goodness, how about all these 6 & 7 year seniors in college burning out these days? Do we think Jordan Burroughs would still be competing on the world stage if he only wrestled folk? Maybe--he's a bit of a unicorn--but I think many times the elite wind up preferring Free because it showcases what they've developed in skill with less wear and tear on the body.
All of this is to say--I still see no reason why we can't/shouldn't continue to do both.
this is what I am talking about.. They have that crotch ride perfected.. Warner was notably fond of it.. you can't circle in if your feet are barely touching the mat..
Might just be the 6-7 years in college…..which should never have happened.
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