This is Franklin's ceiling

[YeOldeCup]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

 

[fastlax16]

not saying I disagree but odds are much higher you end up like Nebraska than UGA if you move on.

 

[AWS1022]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

And what makes you think our ceiling would be higher with anyone else? Multiple top teams have gone through multiple coaches since the CFP came around and none of them have won a NC. Why would we be any different?

 

[zubrus1]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

Most of us saw this back in 2016.

It boggles my mind why anyone is surprised by this still in 2023.

Indiana +31 after Penn State coming off a loss was easy money. Franklin and teams don’t respond well to losses and adversity in general.

The team is a reflection of their coach.

 

[mcpat]

Moving up to the next (Ohio State - Georgia - Alabama) level requires more than just a “better” coaching staff. The fact is that the elite (top 5ish) teams got the ball rolling with NIL and other perks before PSU and we’re playing catch up for it. We’re close. But Ohio State is out recruiting us in our region and we’re not out recruiting other elite programs outside our region. We’re around 10th annually on average in recruiting and we’re around 10th annually on the field.

 

[KCLion]

Moving up to the next (Ohio State - Georgia - Alabama) level requires more than just a “better” coaching staff. The fact is that the elite (top 5ish) teams got the ball rolling with NLI and other perks before PSU and we’re playing catch up for it. We’re close. But Ohio State is out recruiting us in our region and we’re not out recruiting other elite programs outside our region. We’re around 10th annually on average in recruiting and we’re around 10th annually on the field.

If buying players is the only way to get there, then maybe PA should help PSU, Pitt, etc through the legislative system like Missouri has done. They passed legislation that allows HS kids who commit to in state schools to start accepting their NIL while in HS. Many top recruits that would have gone out of state are committing to Mizzou and you can see it on the field.

 

[PaoliLion]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

He has one glaring flaw - he has zero idea on how to prepare/develop an o-line + running game.

 

[fastlax16]

If buying players is the only way to get there, then maybe PA should help PSU, Pitt, etc through the legislative system like Missouri has done. They passed legislation that allows HS kids who commit to in state schools to start accepting their NIL while in HS. Many top recruits that would have gone out of state are committing to Mizzou and you can see it on the field.

Have you reached out to your local representation regarding this

 

[Crusher1950]

Same thing every year don’t care much if he wins 11, 10, or 9 nothing changing

 

[LandoComando]

not saying I disagree but odds are much higher you end up like Nebraska than UGA if you move on.

I don't think Nebraska is on the table. We have a lot of advantages they don't have.
Worst case is we become an 8-9 win team most years instead of 9-10.

 

[blair10]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

No disrespect, but was wondering what took you so long to realize coach Franklin has reached his ceiling.

 

[YeOldeCup]

And what makes you think our ceiling would be higher with anyone else? Multiple top teams have gone through multiple coaches since the CFP came around and none of them have won a NC. Why would we be any different?

It's not merely the coach, it's the program/university, which settled for this via Franklin's extension.

Apart from the usual suspects, Washington, TCU, Oregon, Cincinnati, Michigan State, and Florida State have all made CFP appearances. Exactly what disadvantages does PSU have compared to them?

 

[YeOldeCup]

No disrespect, but was wondering what took you so long to realize coach Franklin has reached his ceiling.

This was supposed to be the year he could make the program 'elite,' but nothing changed.

 

[mcpat]

It's not merely the coach, it's the program/university, which settled for this via Franklin's extension.

Apart from the usual suspects, Washington, TCU, Oregon, Cincinnati, Michigan State, and Florida State have all made CFP appearances. Exactly what disadvantages does PSU have compared to them?

Having Ohio State in its division.

 

[blair10]

Having Ohio State in its division.

TCU had Texas and Oklahoma. Not to mention, they actually beat Michigan.

 

[KCLion]

Have you reached out to your local representation regarding this

I’m in KS and MO.

 

[ncgolfer]

Much as I hate to say it many of the criticism here against Franklin are valid. And I also now feel as if we have clearly seen the limits of James Franklin. I am done giving him the benefit of the doubt. And I am especially exasperated with Franklin‘s inability to develop an OL. We have good running backs and on paper have recruited well on the OL but have trouble developing an OL to run the ball with any consistency. Even against Big Ten doormats. It just happens way too often with a Franklin coached team. And I seriously doubt bringing in a new OL coach will change that. Franklin has gone through a bunch of them.

 

[dbbp]

I’m in KS and MO.

Could you reach out to Lance Leipold? 😂

 

[fastlax16]

I’m in KS and MO.

Just sign it Dave Peterson.

 

[LMTLION]

Franklin’s ceiling to date has been PSU’s ceiling since 1995.

 

[AWS1022]

It's not merely the coach, it's the program/university, which settled for this via Franklin's extension.

Apart from the usual suspects, Washington, TCU, Oregon, Cincinnati, Michigan State, and Florida State have all made CFP appearances. Exactly what disadvantages does PSU have compared to them?

Being in the Big East with OSU and Michigan at the very top of their program…getting nailed with sanctions during the first few years of the CFP…lack of recruiting talent in our home state…horrible facilities until recently…should I go on?

 

[AWS1022]

TCU had Texas and Oklahoma. Not to mention, they actually beat Michigan.

And how are they doing this year?

 

[LandoComando]

And how are they doing this year?

As expected for a program like TCU replacing what they're replacing
Doesn't alter what they accomplished last year

 

[mcpat]

Best records since start of 2022 season:

1. Georgia 23-0
2. Michigan 21-1
T-3. Ohio St 19-2
T-3. Washington 19-2
5. Tulane 19-3
T-6. Alabama 18-3
T-6. Florida State 18-3
T-6. Penn State 18-3

Note that all three of PSU’s losses are also on this list. Two of them on the road, the other a home game that Penn St led in the 4th Qtr.

I feel bad for folks that aren’t happy with the team, the coach and/or the results.

 

[LandoComando]

Best records since start of 2022 season:

1. Georgia 23-0
2. Michigan 21-1
T-3. Ohio St 19-2
T-3. Washington 19-2
5. Tulane 19-3
T-6. Alabama 18-3
T-6. Florida State 18-3
T-6. Penn State 18-3

I feel bad for folks that aren’t happy with the team, the coach and/or the results.

List the best regular season win we have during that time....

I assure you Bama isn't happy at 18-3 either. And Ohio State isn't at 19-2.

 

[psu_andy]

Nothing against him personally, but his peak is a 2 loss season with a bowl game. He will have never reached the 4 team CFP. The Lions can make the 12-team CFP fairly regularly, but will never be in the top 4 to get a bye.

Is that 'good enough?' I've tempered my expectations. Of course I'll still watch all the games, but do not see a Franklin-coached team winning a NC, at PSU or elsewhere.

I tend to agree with you. I have no idea what it takes to get to the top but, it seems, Franklin is too stubborn to adapt from the weaknesses to the strengths of his teams. And then, out of the blue, he goes for it on 4th down from his end of the field in a one score game. It seems to me he lacks the adpatability and intuition that the great coaches have.

 

[YeOldeCup]

I tend to agree with you. I have no idea what it takes to get to the top but, it seems, Franklin is too stubborn to adapt from the weaknesses to the strengths of his teams. And then, out of the blue, he goes for it on 4th down from his end of the field in a one score game. It seems to me he lacks the adaptability and intuition that the great coaches have.

A keeper from my early days as a military officer: 'You manage things; you lead people.'

Far too much of the former in this program - the intermittent leadership we've seen has come from the natural abilities of a few gifted players, who then move on, leaving a void.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Moving up to the next (Ohio State - Georgia - Alabama) level requires more than just a “better” coaching staff. The fact is that the elite (top 5ish) teams got the ball rolling with NLI and other perks before PSU and we’re playing catch up for it. We’re close. But Ohio State is out recruiting us in our region and we’re not out recruiting other elite programs outside our region. We’re around 10th annually on average in recruiting and we’re around 10th annually on the field.

I think this is actually the whole problem. Ohio State is out recruiting PSU in the PSU recruiting region. that wasn't happening in the 1990s, which was the last time the OSU series was really back and forth and not one-sided

 

[mcpat]

I think this is actually the whole problem. Ohio State is out recruiting PSU in the PSU recruiting region. that wasn't happening in the 1990s, which was the last time the OSU series was really back and forth and not one-sided

I think competing with Ohio St on NIL is going to be close to impossible. They have by far the largest fanbase and being in a major city helps create NIL opportunities regardless.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I think competing with Ohio St on NIL is going to be close to impossible. They have by far the largest fanbase and being in a major city helps create NIL opportunities regardless.

plenty of schools have the issue of being in a semi-rural location. cant let that be the only excuse. of course, it doesn't help that PSU has BOT members who think the goal of NIL is giving payments to every athlete no matter what sport or what level of impact

 

[AWS1022]

I think competing with Ohio St on NIL is going to be close to impossible. They have by far the largest fanbase and being in a major city helps create NIL opportunities regardless.

I’m not sure why some posters just don’t understand that a lot of the blue chip athletes don’t want to go to PSU regardless of who the coach is.

 

[LandoComando]

I’m not sure why some posters just don’t understand that a lot of the blue chip athletes don’t want to go to PSU regardless of who the coach is.

That's true of all schools. Not even Bama gets everyone they want. Franklin's job is getting those that are viable options

 

[AWS1022]

plenty of schools have the issue of being in a semi-rural location. cant let that be the only excuse. of course, it doesn't help that PSU has BOT members who think the goal of NIL is giving payments to every athlete no matter what sport or what level of impact

We also haven’t been a serious NC contender for 30 years. When star athletes want to go to a school to play for a NC or to get a ton of exposure, PSU is not real high on that list.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

We also haven’t been a serious NC contender for 30 years. When star athletes want to go to a school to play for a NC or to get a ton of exposure, PSU is not real high on that list.

not sure I agree with that, even in the final decade of Paterno we were national title contenders in 2008 and 2005, and could have been with a few breaks in 2002

Franklin really had done a nice job of eliminating the losses to bad teams (mostly) but he is now stuck on not beating osu

 

[LandoComando]

We also haven’t been a serious NC contender for 30 years. When star athletes want to go to a school to play for a NC or to get a ton of exposure, PSU is not real high on that list.

How don't they get a ton of exposure here? And we should be giving them a chance to play for a title. Georgia figured it out and we need to do the same.

 

[AWS1022]

not sure I agree with that, even in the final decade of Paterno we were national title contenders in 2008 and 2005, and could have been with a few breaks in 2002

Franklin really had done a nice job of eliminating the losses to bad teams (mostly) but he is now stuck on not beating osu

In 2005, we were an after thought…the only chance we had was if Texas or USC lost…so just another ding to our reputation as a NC contender. We’ve never gotten the push from national media and it often bites us in the a$$. If you need proof, look no further than 1994. Kind of proves my point.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

In 2005, we were an after thought…the only chance we had was if Texas or USC lost…so just another ding to our reputation as a NC contender. We’ve never gotten the push from national media and it often bites us in the a$$. If you need proof, look no further than 1994. Kind of proves my point.

ok, yeah maybe although i don't know how that would've shaken out if we defeated michigan. you are saying we get no exposure, but I think playing at psu gets a ton of exposure. just as much as any top 10 team probably

 

[AWS1022]

ok, yeah maybe although i don't know how that would've shaken out if we defeated michigan. you are saying we get no exposure, but I think playing at psu gets a ton of exposure. just as much as any top 10 team probably

Even if we would’ve beaten Michigan, we would have needed one of those teams to lose. I used to listen to ESPN radio all the time years ago. I even drove 10 hours one time and listened to it the whole way. I ended up giving up on it because they basically talked about 8 teams every day and PSU wasn’t one of them. That 10 hour trip was when PSU was ranked high (2017) and not one mention of PSU. I quit listening for years. I recently listened again on a long road trip and they talked about the same 8 teams and no PSU. That was all their radio programs. PSU is not one of the top schools when it comes to publicity.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Even if we would’ve beaten Michigan, we would have needed one of those teams to lose. I used to listen to ESPN radio all the time years ago. I even drove 10 hours one time and listened to it the whole way. I ended up giving up on it because they basically talked about 8 teams every day and PSU wasn’t one of them. That 10 hour trip was when PSU was ranked high (2017) and not one mention of PSU. I quit listening for years. I recently listened again on a long road trip and they talked about the same 8 teams and no PSU. That was all their radio programs. PSU is not one of the top schools when it comes to publicity.

ESPN radio is not a good barometer for exposure. but i remember them talking about PSU a lot in '05. anyway, ESPN in general is fading in relevance

 

[KCLion]

Even if we would’ve beaten Michigan, we would have needed one of those teams to lose. I used to listen to ESPN radio all the time years ago. I even drove 10 hours one time and listened to it the whole way. I ended up giving up on it because they basically talked about 8 teams every day and PSU wasn’t one of them. That 10 hour trip was when PSU was ranked high (2017) and not one mention of PSU. I quit listening for years. I recently listened again on a long road trip and they talked about the same 8 teams and no PSU. That was all their radio programs. PSU is not one of the top schools when it comes to publicity.

They are not going to talk about Big very much due to the tv contracts. Yes, they talk OSU a lot because several of the radio guts are OSU alums.