ADVERTISEMENT

Tampering

Why does the question become how the info got out? The bad deed is the attempted poaching of guys not in the portal - let’s not try to obscure that fact. Obviously this is going to be the strategy of the chastened Hawkeye fans.

Larry Lee stepped in shit - full stop

I didn’t mean that was “the only” question, just in reference to the reporting of something that it seems few besides the people involved and those 2 know.

I think still TBD what exactly Mr. Lee did. Even if he was “gauging interest” and basically just said “if you were interested in looking at what else was out there, I could set up as meeting, but you have to be in the portal first,” would that even qualify as an illegal recruiting violation?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mike Zierath
Appropriate material at the appropriate, not pulling the rug out from under a recruit about to make his commitment announcement.
I would be happy to discuss this. I had talked to Beau about his original silent commitment to admissions (to Princeton) which many didn’t know about, he was excited to come to NJ. He then decided to go a different route and go to PSU. I was told his commitment was coming saw a post about him to PSU and regrettably shared this information as well. It was out there but I posted it and it was wrong. Regardless if I had much of a following at the time- people saw. A few hours later he officially released his announcement. I talked to Beau that evening and apologized as it was a poor judgement call/ thinking that because people were chatting about him to PSU that it was already out there. He was a great sport and a stand up young man, and in the end there were no hard feelings. Just a lesson… Since then I have not even thought about announcing or reporting High School kids commits before them or without permission directly from- because I know that it’s a big moment. This was years ago and we’ve moved on. There was no ill intent.

And as far as wrong information and all that/ yes there has been pre-emptive posts on my part , things sometimes change- but I assure you that things posted are always based on real information at the time and not some “made up” story. This is a learning process and not something I do for a living, I love the sport and chatting wrestling. I don’t make money or try to make money. Nonetheless, credibility is important when you have a following- this idea isn’t unbeknownst to me.

With that said, batting average is much much better than some people in certain places want to lead on. 😂
 
I didn’t mean that was “the only” question, just in reference to the reporting of something that it seems few besides the people involved and those 2 know.

I think still TBD what exactly Mr. Lee did. Even if he was “gauging interest” and basically just said “if you were interested in looking at what else was out there, I could set up as meeting, but you have to be in the portal first,” would that even qualify as an illegal recruiting violation?
Since there will be no action from the NCAA, whether it is or is not an infraction is moot.
The bigger question is whether or not what you described above is sleazy. I vote yes.
 
Yeah I could see that being the case.

Then I think the question becomes how did Mineo get the info. I would be more inclined to believe Willie fed it to him than he got it directly from wrestlers or staff from 2 different teams (I see you were already having a similar convo on HR with some of them theorizing that as well). Keep in mind I’m pretty sure Willie has been accused of giving info to Mineo that he didn’t want to put out himself in the past as well.
I think Larry Lee is worried about how the info got out too, because he’s after the source of who outted him. He does not have a good poker face lol we all know what was said and that it wasn’t a friendly convo out of the blue. Wouldn’t be the first time and not the last, maybe nothing will come of it- but doesn’t mean we can’t discuss it and laugh.
 
Eh, it’s just as simple of an explanation that he was mad that someone lied about him. Which Mineo did at least originally.
I lied about him? Lol he’s the one who got caught in a lie… Can you elaborate please? Anyone with a brain can see how guilty his is- his reactions were insane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crockster and Ski
I didn’t mean that was “the only” question, just in reference to the reporting of something that it seems few besides the people involved and those 2 know.

I think still TBD what exactly Mr. Lee did. Even if he was “gauging interest” and basically just said “if you were interested in looking at what else was out there, I could set up as meeting, but you have to be in the portal first,” would that even qualify as an illegal recruiting violation?
Yes, and that really shouldn't be a question.
 
I didn’t mean that was “the only” question, just in reference to the reporting of something that it seems few besides the people involved and those 2 know.

I think still TBD what exactly Mr. Lee did. Even if he was “gauging interest” and basically just said “if you were interested in looking at what else was out there, I could set up as meeting, but you have to be in the portal first,” would that even qualify as an illegal recruiting violation?
@El-Jefe - I think you said you had some experience as a Penn State booster of sorts. Setting aside the sleaze factor of Larry Lee for a second, would the fact pattern expressed above be a violation?
 
I would be happy to discuss this. I had talked to Beau about his original silent commitment to admissions (to Princeton) which many didn’t know about, he was excited to come to NJ. He then decided to go a different route and go to PSU. I was told his commitment was coming saw a post about him to PSU and regrettably shared this information as well. It was out there but I posted it and it was wrong. Regardless if I had much of a following at the time- people saw. A few hours later he officially released his announcement. I talked to Beau that evening and apologized as it was a poor judgement call/ thinking that because people were chatting about him to PSU that it was already out there. He was a great sport and a stand up young man, and in the end there were no hard feelings. Just a lesson… Since then I have not even thought about announcing or reporting High School kids commits before them or without permission directly from- because I know that it’s a big moment. This was years ago and we’ve moved on. There was no ill intent.

And as far as wrong information and all that/ yes there has been pre-emptive posts on my part , things sometimes change- but I assure you that things posted are always based on real information at the time and not some “made up” story. This is a learning process and not something I do for a living, I love the sport and chatting wrestling. I don’t make money or try to make money. Nonetheless, credibility is important when you have a following- this idea isn’t unbeknownst to me.

With that said, batting average is much much better than some people in certain places want to lead on. 😂
I know you're mostly just a fan like the rest of us and you do something else for a living but I always assumed one day you were going to piggyback your following into something bigger than Twitter. Maybe a podcast or something. I've heard some say you're like the TMZ of college wrestling and I think it's kinda accurate and a good description but I also recognize people eat that kinda shit up ... the proof is the number of followers you have on Twitter.... for a niche sport like wrestling that's a boatload of attention you're receiving. I'm surprised no one has asked you to be part of their shows. Or have they and you aren't interested?

BTW, it's funny when I hear people on the interwebz advise people to just ignore or block you and pay no attention. I'm willing to bet the people that say that are the last people that will stop waiting to see what you come out with the next. Cuz like I said.... people eat that shit up. Lol. They just don't admit it. Ha
 
@El-Jefe - I think you said you had some experience as a Penn State booster of sorts. Setting aside the sleaze factor of the seemingly oleaginous Larry Lee for a second, would the fact pattern expressed above be a violation?
Absolutely:

1. "I can set up a meeting with Tom" = recruiting. It would be questionable at best if he had said "I can set up a meeting with any school you want" because he is very obviously tied to one particular school. But he didn't even bother with neutral language.

2. "but you have to be in the portal first" = concession that Brands can't be involved, or at least must maintain plausible deniability, until the athlete is in the portal. Maybe this would've been OK if he had added a wink emoji.

3. Nobody can recruit until the athlete is in the portal.

4. Only the coaches can recruit.

TL;DR: He is not allowed to recruit any athletes, but did (allegedly) recruit some before the athletes were portaled and therefore not even the coaches could recruit.
 
Last edited:
I know you're mostly just a fan like the rest of us and you do something else for a living but I always assumed one day you were going to piggyback your following into something bigger than Twitter. Maybe a podcast or something. I've heard some say you're like the TMZ of college wrestling and I think it's kinda accurate and a good description but I also recognize people eat that kinda shit up ... the proof is the number of followers you have on Twitter.... for a niche sport like wrestling that's a boatload of attention you're receiving. I'm surprised no one has asked you to be part of their shows. Or have they and you aren't interested?

BTW, it's funny when I hear people on the interwebz advise people to just ignore or block you and pay no attention. I'm willing to bet the people that say that are the last people that will stop waiting to see what you come out with the next. Cuz like I said.... people eat that shit up. Lol. They just don't admit it. Ha
Haha so correct. Many many of the people hate then still follow or still watch from a distance.
And yes my wheelhouse is the forum atmosphere- where people chat and discuss things going on, just like here. Sometimes it’s rumors or other types of stuff, etc… I started mine just 2 years ago. I have thought about the podcast route/ was given an offer by Rokfin (for a podcast type page) but for me personally- the structure was not ideal as far as the time that would need to be put in vs what I would get out of it. I’m not opposed to it though. I just think only getting paid off new subs is tough/ because most of the people who want to be on Rokfin and will follow already have it, existing users.

The freedom and engagement of a forum is what I like best.

Now I love supporting other avenues- especially guys like ZB at Stalemates who I have been supporting since the jump and been on his show 3 times... Have also done other podcasts and shows as a guest.

Have discussed a podcast and website as well. But I was in no rush. Sometimes I wonder how in the world beefs have come between me and outlets like Flo and others who have legit companies and do it for a living lol They just give more validity and get more people following.

We will see what’s next! 👏🏻
 
One thing for sure:

Larry Lee’s clumsy bagman efforts have entered BWI lore and shall be memed mercilessly henceforth. It’s in the pantheon with:

-Nico’s shitty practice room record
-The need - nay the absolute necessity - to have 8 (not 7 or 9 mind you) scoring wrestlers in order to win nationals
-why we might be a great team, but still strive to be a great program
-Bo’s Noodle Arms
And of course how Brands makes his wrestlers HATE THE SPORT!
 
  • Like
Reactions: danoftw
I'm willing to bet the people that say that are the last people that will stop waiting to see what you come out with the next. Cuz like I said.... people eat that shit up. Lol. They just don't admit it. Ha
It’s like the good old days when the newspaper business model was actually profitable. Everyone liked the affect that they were buying for the front or business pages, when in fact, it was always the box scores, the comics, and the coupons. It was in fact those things that actually paid the salaries of the real journalists.
 
I lied about him? Lol he’s the one who got caught in a lie… Can you elaborate please? Anyone with a brain can see how guilty his is- his reactions were insane.

Referring to your original fb post which was screenshotted to HR saying he called “the athletes,” but you edited it to say he called “the athletes’ families” without noting your edit.
 
Absolutely:

1. "I can set up a meeting with Tom" = recruiting. It would be questionable at best if he had said "I can set up a meeting with any school you want" because he is very obviously tied to one particular school. But he didn't even bother with neutral language.

2. "but you have to be in the portal first" = concession that Brands can't be involved, or at least must maintain plausible deniability, until the athlete is in the portal. Maybe this would've been OK if he had added a wink emoji.

3. Nobody can recruit until the athlete is in the portal.

4. Only the coaches can recruit.

TL;DR: He is not allowed to recruit any athletes, but did (allegedly) recruit some before the athletes were portaled and therefore not even the coaches could recruit.

Agreed on #’s 2-4. I’m not a compliance officer, but yes I do think #1 could “at least be a question.”

I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but didn’t Basch ask David Carr about transferring to PSU? Couldn’t that be considered recruiting too then?
 
Referring to your original fb post which was screenshotted to HR saying he called “the athletes,” but you edited it to say he called “the athletes’ families” without noting your edit.
I would not consider this a lie. I don't even know that it was an intentional misrepresentation.

Could've just been using fewer words, as it is a FB post not a newspaper article. Could've been speaking to an inferred intent that LL was trying to reach the athletes regardless of whose number was dialed. I wouldn't consider it a lie if either of these were the case.

What seems to not be in dispute is that he made an edit and didn't do anything overt to conceal the edit. It seems reasonable that he could've made the edit after objections were raised regarding clarity to make it less ambiguous. I don't think most posters normally annotate their posts that they made an edit.

The dispute of an alleged lie that I've read had to do with whether or not LL had been named in a post subsequently deleted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatMineo22 and Ski
Yes. At first I thought it had to do with Real Woods, but then Willie denied that it was. So I was perplexed, until the Willets and O'Connor news became public. Then the tumblers fell into place.

If LL was contacting AAs I wouldn't be at all surprised if Real was also part of that phone tree, but since Woods is already a Hawkeye he won't be blowing the whistle on his own team.
 
NCAA member schools have adopted rules to create an equitable recruiting environment that promotes student-athlete well-being. The rules define who may be involved in the recruiting process, when recruiting may occur and the conditions under which recruiting may be conducted. Recruiting rules seek, as much as possible, to control intrusions into the lives of student-athletes.

The NCAA defines recruiting as
“any solicitation of prospective student-athletes or their parents by an institutional staff member or by a representative of the institution’s athletics interests for the purpose of securing a prospective student-athlete’s enrollment and ultimate participation in the institution’s intercollegiate athletics program.”

<the added emphasis is mine>
NCAA definition of recruiting
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSUer1989 and Ski
If LL was contacting AAs I wouldn't be at all surprised if Real was also part of that phone tree, but since Woods is already a Hawkeye he won't be blowing the whistle on his own team.
For the record that's not a quote from me, but maybe somethimh I responded to.
 
Last edited:
Agreed on #’s 2-4. I’m not a compliance officer, but yes I do think #1 could “at least be a question.”

I can’t remember the exact phrasing, but didn’t Basch ask David Carr about transferring to PSU? Couldn’t that be considered recruiting too then?
Nope. Quite the stretch.
 
Yes. Like I said earlier, calling the parents is still a story, but calling the wrestlers directly is a lot different IMO.
The difference being one might believe "plausible deniability", yet they would be wrong.
 
The difference being one might believe "plausible deniability", yet they would be wrong.

Maybe, although I think it depends on what exactly was said. I really hope we find out more, but I’m not counting on it.
 
Maybe, although I think it depends on what exactly was said. I really hope we find out more, but I’m not counting on it.
If there was conversation about meeting Tom, or what Iowa has to offer there isn't any gray.
Since the conversations resulted in reporting to coaching staffs, how is everybody's health probably wasn't the tone of the conversations.

Even if nothing publicly happens with this it is a terrible look for Larry Lee, and doesn't gleam the chrome plating on the Hawk armor either.
 
Come on man. They are lying. It made what the SEC was all about legal and out in the open. Kinda like legalizing pot. Everybody is going to play. But it will settle down in a year or two when these athletes fail to deliver like typical professional free agents. Then you’ll start hearing of kids on the heap who have been left behind. Everybody says it won’t happen to them. But it does to the vast majority. Broken promises, embezzlement, fraud, theft my, etc... we’ve been down this way before.

“Well, I went home with the waitress
The way I always do
How was I to know
She was with the Russians, too

I was gambling in Havana
I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns and money
Dad, get me out of this

I'm the innocent bystander
Somehow I got stuck
Between the rock and the hard place
And I'm down on my luck
And I'm down on my luck
And I'm down on my luck

Now I'm hiding in Honduras
I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan”
Patty Hurst heard ....... and bought one (diff song but same great album). Excitable boy is always a fun listen..
 
It's likely that I've not sifted through everything but I wasn't 100% clear that what Lee did that was an NCAA violation so I poked around. My skepticism was due to Lee (I'm assuming he's a booster for the sake of argument), having not contacted any student-athletes directly but rather their parents. The NCAA has no shortage of restrictions against coach and booster contact of the parents of student athletes, but most of those restrictions pertain explicitly to HS students because that's where most of the policing needs to happen.

But for a potential transfer like, say, Austin O'Connor--he isn't a HS student and has more presumed autonomy than a HS student. His parents are no longer guardians, as is almost always the case with a HS student, so there would seem to be less need to police conversations his parents and boosters from opposing schools. In theory at least, his parents would hold less sway at this point in his life, thus the decreased need for restrictions.

But the NCAA does indeed restrict such communications, emphasis mine below.

Q7: What happens if a student-athlete had impermissible communications, directly or indirectly, with coaching staff or boosters at the Division I school to which they transfer?

A7: Existing recruiting rules prohibit communication and contact with a student-athlete enrolled at another NCAA school prior to the student-athlete appearing in the NCAA Transfer Portal. These rules also prohibit the indirect use of third parties contacting individuals on the student-athlete’s behalf (e.g., family member, scholastic or no scholastic coach, advisor). Certain violations of these rules can constitute a significant breach of conduct as it relates to the NCAA infractions process. A student-athlete’s eligibility can be jeopardized at the school that engaged in impermissible communication.

So the only meaningful open question to my eye is whether Lee's communications with the parents concerned recruiting. The NCAA can't police conversations about the weather. I've yet to see any evidence that Lee's communications rose to the level of violations, other than some very plausible inferences being drawn here and elsewhere premised on the dearth of likely explanations as to what else they could have been communicating about, which are even more convincing when you look at the names of the wrestlers in question.

While I share those inferences, the NCAA would need something more concrete before hitting Iowa or the student-athletes with violations. Of course, they could simply investigate by asking both parties about the nature of those conversations, but they presently appear wholly disinterested in policing much of anything at this point, so I doubt anything comes of it.

Either way, Lee, especially given his resume, should have known better to trigger all the appearances issues on display here. Perhaps it's like the hubris of a fireman turning arsonist because he figures he can get away with it better than anyone else.
 
I would not consider this a lie. I don't even know that it was an intentional misrepresentation.

Could've just been using fewer words, as it is a FB post not a newspaper article. Could've been speaking to an inferred intent that LL was trying to reach the athletes regardless of whose number was dialed. I wouldn't consider it a lie if either of these were the case.

What seems to not be in dispute is that he made an edit and didn't do anything overt to conceal the edit. It seems reasonable that he could've made the edit after objections were raised regarding clarity to make it less ambiguous. I don't think most posters normally annotate their posts that they made an edit.

The dispute of an alleged lie that I've read had to do with whether or not LL had been named in a post subsequently deleted.

I’m not saying it was intentional. I think he was given bad/incomplete info, like he pretty much just admitted in this thread to happening other times. But trying to cover his tracks and pretend it never happened is where I have a problem. Most “posters” don’t note when they edit, although some do, and of course we’re not just talking about a random forum post here (yes it was on a fb forum but he didn’t even do his “just asking questions” bit originally that he does sometimes).

You could argue that is being nitpicky, but considering Mr Lee’s initial response was specific to the claim of him calling “wrestlers,” I think it’s relevant. Mineo could have easily clarified that he misspoke originally, but instead went into full “did you order the code red” mode and kept asking “did you or did you not call the wrestler’s families???”

Yes, I had seen what you mentioned in your last paragraph, but not sure of the specifics on that.
 
I would be happy to discuss this. I had talked to Beau about his original silent commitment to admissions (to Princeton) which many didn’t know about, he was excited to come to NJ. He then decided to go a different route and go to PSU. I was told his commitment was coming saw a post about him to PSU and regrettably shared this information as well. It was out there but I posted it and it was wrong. Regardless if I had much of a following at the time- people saw. A few hours later he officially released his announcement. I talked to Beau that evening and apologized as it was a poor judgement call/ thinking that because people were chatting about him to PSU that it was already out there. He was a great sport and a stand up young man, and in the end there were no hard feelings. Just a lesson… Since then I have not even thought about announcing or reporting High School kids commits before them or without permission directly from- because I know that it’s a big moment. This was years ago and we’ve moved on. There was no ill intent.

And as far as wrong information and all that/ yes there has been pre-emptive posts on my part , things sometimes change- but I assure you that things posted are always based on real information at the time and not some “made up” story. This is a learning process and not something I do for a living, I love the sport and chatting wrestling. I don’t make money or try to make money. Nonetheless, credibility is important when you have a following- this idea isn’t unbeknownst to me.

With that said, batting average is much much better than some people in certain places want to lead on. 😂
For what is worth, I follow your and enjoy your posts. I don't get overly worked up as some do if something isn't 100% I am amazed how much you do hear. I look at it as wrestling information, some satire, opinions and some rumors. Not much different than what gets posted on this board at times.
 
Last edited:
For what is worth, I follow your and enjoy your posts. I don't get overly worked up as some do if something isn't 100% I am amazing how much you do hear. I look at it as wrestling information, some satire, opinions and some rumors. Not much different than what gets posted on this board at times.
Ditto. I follow him on Twitter and get a good laugh and occasionally breaking news by doing so.

But if I was an Iowa fan, I too would be burying my head in the sand and saying didn’t you just tell me Kem was retiring? Cause I saw him wrestle in Minnesota.
 
Ditto. I follow him on Twitter and get a good laugh and occasionally breaking news by doing so.

But if I was an Iowa fan, I too would be burying my head in the sand and saying didn’t you just tell me Kem was retiring? Cause I saw him wrestle in Minnesota.
You expend a lot of effort defending Iowa fans who likely are going to search for a reason to discredit it no matter what the source. And, yes, we'll have guys over here who employ the same type of rationalizations.

Any reasonable person who has a cursory knowledge of Mineo inows he is a "smoke" reporter. Other guys may wait for the confirmation of "fire" but Mineo is trying to get it out first and sometimes that's going to result in some inaccuracies because things change or some things got lost in translation.

You point out Kemerer, which is a great illustration of this. Its obvious he was hurt and was conflicted about his return in the first place - that has been reported by more than Mineo. It is also pretty easy to conclude that the rest and/or rehab did not go as well as hoped and at some point in the season that became pretty clear. That's a lot of smoke. And in the end not far off from the end result.

Lots here bring up Schon, but again there was likely a lot of smoke about RU bringing in a big guy, probably intermixed with smoke about Schon and voila!

I'm not defending this or saying the guy is always right but just putting it in context. When the guy puts something out there, it's not out if thin air, there's something there that's causing the smoke.

So put in context of this situation, I'd say there is something behind it. Then you look at Larry Lee's reaction to it and it seems as if something struck a nerve for sure. Reasonable people can have takes on this.
 
I did I short stretch at Allenwood after being arrested and prosecuted by the authorities over on HR. Pretty sure I met your uncle before they transferred me to the correctional facility in Cresson. If it's the same guy, he taught me how to make a shiv for protection.... lol
Good one! Didn’t know that HR was connected to the Country Club of prisons. With a nickname like Luci, my unk probably needed a shiv. Good to know that you are skilled in personal protective equipment.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: johnstownsteel
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT