Re: Brady Berge's seeding and Coach Sanderson's very specific comments...

johnstownsteel

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Aug 2, 2013
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Berge was 3rd at B1G’s and Kemerer was 6th. Yet one is the 16th seed and the other is the 5th seed. Makes no sense.
Then you have a Brian Meyer, who was used by the coaches and committee to keep a PSU kid from having any chance to score points at Nationals, be seeded essentially in the same spot as Berge. Oh it makes complete sense once you figure out why things are done the way are done.
 

backdrft76

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Sep 7, 2012
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Can I throw in one more conspiracy theory on top of the one I already threw out there? I warn you though, this rant may be lengthy. Lol

I still believe some guys were seeded poorly (Berge, Hildy and Austin Desanto) so PSU doesn’t run away with this thing but I’d also now like to add that Creighton Edsell isn’t even able to compete at Nationals because of what they and some coaches are doing to draw PSU closer to the rest of the field. Edsell should have been selected as the at large instead of Brian Meyer. I’m. including “some coaches” because their rankings in my opinion unfairly cost Creighton a trip to Detroit. Why tf would coaches rankings even be part of a kid getting in or not? Coaches will give/receive :01 MFFs to game the system for crying out loud… you don’t think they will rank kids lower to keep him from competing for their highly favored competitor?

Everything I see tells me Creighton should be in. To me, the most compelling argument that he shouldn’t is that Creighton was 1-2 at his conference tourney. Well guess what? SO WAS BRIAN MEYER. What, are the EIWAs somehow tougher? Creighton had a better win percentage and beat Meyer h2h…in my opinion that coaches ranking is why he isn’t in.

Ya wanna know what then nailed it for me that things are fishy? When the brackets came out, Brian Meyer is then seeded 17th…essentially the same seeds given to Berge and Hildebrandt. That’s right, a kid that went 1-2 at his weaker conference tourney got pretty much the same seed as Berge (who finished 3rd at Big 10s) and Hildebrandt who was ranked top 10 all year and had the same record (1-2) at a much tougher conference tournament. Btw, it’s my opinion you throw Edsell into that 17 slot and he gets one win and possibly two.

To wrap this up, it almost looks to me like the seed was given to “hide” the bullshit going on behind the scenes between coaches and the commitee. How the hell does Brian Meyer, who shouldn’t even be in the tourney, be seeded in front of someone like like Justin McCoy who at least was his conference runner up? And how is he seeded higher than a WHOLE SLEW of guys that won spots outright without the benefit of getting a bogus at large bid?

I understand why Cael is pissed.
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CJFisJoePaII

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Sep 6, 2019
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MFFs, ducking, bogus seeds, bogus at large bids….

I laugh my ass off hearing people in prominent positions, that could actually help grow the sport within the sport saying “ whatever is best to grow the sport”.

The majority of them are full of shit.

Sadly, very true. Most of them want to do solely what is in their own best interest, not the student-athlete's or the sport's (IOW, they want whatever is going to help them look like the best coach regardless of equity or fairness). Most of them are corrupt, self-interested, pompous, arrogant, self-interested, parochial old farts who are willing to see athletes who earn it on the mat get screwed in the name of their own agenda and self-interest.
 

johnstownsteel

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Who is on the seeding committee this year? Anyone know?

It might be revealing. This is all I could find with a quick search:

Section 1•2 National Committee Matt Azevedo – Term Expires August 2023 Head Wrestling Coach Drexel University Andy Noel – Term Expires August 2022 Director of Athletics Cornell University Daniel Bartholomae – Term Expires August 2025 Executive Deputy Athletic Director Oregon State University Kyle Ruschell – Term Expires August 2023 Head Wrestling Coach University of Tennessee at Chattanooga Bob Burda – Term Expires August 2023 Associate Commissioner Big 12 Conference Jennifer Tuscano – Term Expires August 2024 Senior Woman Administrator University of Pittsburgh
I’d really like to dig into these names but one jumped out at me because the name was quite familiar. Jennifer Tuscano at Pitt played basketball at a local high-school here in Somerset county then played for UPJ. So, a former girls basketball player at a very small highschool and Division 2 basketball player is seeding the premier wrestling event in the country.

Makes sense…
 
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AgSurfer

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Aug 9, 2013
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Here's a better way to do it that would make for a much bigger tournament as well. All 33 wrestlers in each weight class will wrestle each other in a round robin preliminary. Then, the 8 guys with the best record go on to a mini-tournament where the final 8 AA spots are decided. If two wrestlers have identical records in the round robin, the winner over the other gets a higher place. The tournament would start on Monday rather than Thursday to allow enough time for the round robin matches to finish.
 

johnstownsteel

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Aug 2, 2013
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Here's a better way to do it that would make for a much bigger tournament as well. All 33 wrestlers in each weight class will wrestle each other in a round robin preliminary. Then, the 8 guys with the best record go on to a mini-tournament where the final 8 AA spots are decided. If two wrestlers have identical records in the round robin, the winner over the other gets a higher place. The tournament would start on Monday rather than Thursday to allow enough time for the round robin matches to finish.
They’d have to wrestle 32 matches just to get to the AA tournament? Am I reading right?
 

Cowbell Man

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Feb 2, 2002
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I don't have a problem with that one. Amine won the most recent match, so I am okay with using recency bias to seed him #1 when the two have only lost to each other.
Insert Berge into your sentence. See if it still works. ;)
 
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Ian

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Should be a barn burner this weekend. Comparing seeds it’s pretty even other than PSU has 4 number ones and a two.
I’d say first team to 110 pts. wins.
Can Iowa’s injured survive three days?
Will the real Marinelli finally show up?
Can Michigan stay hot?
Will their undercard produce like at B1Gs?
Can PSU’s big five deliver?
Can PSU get 20 pts from the other four?
 

Psugo823

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Aug 17, 2021
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Berge got screwed, yep. So go out there and take 3rd and bonus a bunch of people.
 

Psugo823

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Comes down to this: We get 3 Champs from the big 5, bonus above chalk even if just slightly, get 30 points from the other 4, and go over .500 in the 50-50 matches and we take the title. Period.
 

nitlion6

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Mar 26, 2012
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Can I throw in one more conspiracy theory on top of the one I already threw out there? I warn you though, this rant may be lengthy. Lol

I still believe some guys were seeded poorly (Berge, Hildy and Austin Desanto) so PSU doesn’t run away with this thing but I’d also now like to add that Creighton Edsell isn’t even able to compete at Nationals because of what they and some coaches are doing to draw PSU closer to the rest of the field. Edsell should have been selected as the at large instead of Brian Meyer. I’m including “some coaches” because their rankings in my opinion unfairly cost Creighton a trip to Detroit. Why tf would coaches rankings even be part of a kid getting in or not? Coaches will give/receive :01 MFFs to game the system for crying out loud… you don’t think they will rank kids lower to keep him from competing for their highly favored competitor? Last week I had a former assistant coach at ODU freely admit that coaches call each other to make “deals” to get their kids in thus leaving deserving kids out.

Everything I see tells me Creighton should be in. To me, the most compelling argument that he shouldn’t is that Creighton was 1-2 at his conference tourney. Well guess what? SO WAS BRIAN MEYER. What, are the EIWAs somehow tougher? Creighton had a better win percentage and beat Meyer h2h…in my opinion that coaches ranking is why he isn’t in.

Ya wanna know what then nailed it for me that things are fishy? When the brackets came out, Brian Meyer is then seeded 17th…essentially the same seeds given to Berge and Hildebrandt. That’s right, a kid that went 1-2 at his weaker conference tourney got pretty much the same seed as Berge (who finished 3rd at Big 10s) and Hildebrandt who was ranked top 10 all year and had the same record (1-2) at a much tougher conference tournament. Btw, it’s my opinion you throw Edsell into that 17 slot and he gets one win and possibly two.

To wrap this up, it almost looks to me like the seed was given to “hide” the bullshit going on behind the scenes between coaches and the commitee. How the hell does Brian Meyer, who shouldn’t even be in the tourney, be seeded in front of someone like like Justin McCoy who at least was his conference runner up? And how is he seeded higher than a WHOLE SLEW of guys that won spots outright without the benefit of getting a bogus at large bid?

I understand why Cael is pissed.
Thata boy. When you go lengthy, you make the most of the effort.
 

aalion

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Jun 4, 2001
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Not what I said - he could not be seeded higher than the Finalists of the Championship & Consi Brackets. So he could be seeded as high as 5th if all four of the wrestlers in front of him were the 4 from his Conference in Finals of Championship & Consi B1G Brackets. Beyond that, if he was hurt so badly that he was unable to wrestle or continue in the B1G Tourney, then there's a good chance that he would not be able to go at Nationals (which is less than two weeks later) - or at the very least, would be significantly less than 100% which absolutely should impact his seeding. If by "tweaking his ankle" you mean that he could easily continue in B1G Tourney, but decides not to to protect his current ranking (i.e., MFF'ing out of Tournament after continuing in, and winning, match he tweaked his ankle in - i.e., ducking via fake MFF), this Seeding Protocol would make him think twice about doing that and would likely see him wrestle out the Tournament to protect his current ranking/seed if healthy enough to do so. How is that a bad thing pray tell??? If you're saying he Medically Forfeited the match where hurt his ankle because he was unable to go any further in match, this would be a loss in the Conference Tourney and it would be unclear if he could even go at NCAAs (or if he could go, it might be at significantly less than 100%), this type of situation absolutely should have a significant impact on his NCAA seeding.
LOL. You think Ganle Stephenson… or DT, or Nolf, or Ed Ruth, or Jayden Eierman, or Bo, or Spencer Lee, or ….. give a damn about where they are seeded?


It wouldn’t make Gable “think twice”! Wouldn’t make him “think once”. He wouldn’t give a damn. The only guy who would give a damn is the guy who got an artificial 1 seed only to catch GS in the quarters or semis instead of getting a clear path to 2nd place and a chance to perform on Saturday night w a punchers chance to pull off the upset, with a worst case of silver medal.
 

aalion

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Not what I said - he could not be seeded higher than the Finalists of the Championship & Consi Brackets. So he could be seeded as high as 5th if all four of the wrestlers in front of him were the 4 from his Conference in Finals of Championship & Consi B1G Brackets. Beyond that, if he was hurt so badly that he was unable to wrestle or continue in the B1G Tourney, then there's a good chance that he would not be able to go at Nationals (which is less than two weeks later) - or at the very least, would be significantly less than 100% which absolutely should impact his seeding. If by "tweaking his ankle" you mean that he could easily continue in B1G Tourney, but decides not to to protect his current ranking (i.e., MFF'ing out of Tournament after continuing in, and winning, match he tweaked his ankle in - i.e., ducking via fake MFF), this Seeding Protocol would make him think twice about doing that and would likely see him wrestle out the Tournament to protect his current ranking/seed if healthy enough to do so. How is that a bad thing pray tell??? If you're saying he Medically Forfeited the match where hurt his ankle because he was unable to go any further in match, this would be a loss in the Conference Tourney and it would be unclear if he could even go at NCAAs (or if he could go, it might be at significantly less than 100%), this type of situation absolutely should have a significant impact on his NCAA seeding.
Can you honestly say that if your son was a heavyweight at Lehigh… wrestled his ass off all year… undefeated… won the scuffle or Midlands or whatever… wrestled every match… won the conference tourney with all bonus points….
And you would be OK with him catching Gable Stepheson in the semis because GS didn’t want to risk serious injury after straining a hammy in Rd 1 of BIGs? You’d be. OK with that?
 
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Lovethissport

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Jan 17, 2014
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Berge got screwed, yep. So go out there and take 3rd and bonus a bunch of people.
Berge did not return to wrestling to take third or even second. He has his sights on one podium spot….that at the top. Carr is a tremedous wrestler. If Berge takes care of business first round, he will give Carr all he can handle. Not super likely. But upsets happen.
 

Psugo823

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Berge did not return to wrestling to take third or even second. He has his sights on one podium spot….that at the top. Carr is a tremedous wrestler. If Berge takes care of business first round, he will give Carr all he can handle. Not super likely. But upsets happen.
Not gonna happen. 3rd. It's a win for psu
 

Sportfan2017

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Not gonna happen. 3rd. It's a win for psu
I would think with "Lovely" Seedings that the expected scoring among 125, 149 and 157 would be a range from 6 to 12. Consolations are only 1/2 point so Bonus points are extremely important. If they score 6 points total I think there would be disappointment. 12 points I think would be pretty satisfying. Anything over 12 and I would bet most PSU fans will be planning on hoisting a trophy.....the one that says "Champs"
 

jmadden1998

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Berge did not return to wrestling to take third or even second. He has his sights on one podium spot….that at the top. Carr is a tremedous wrestler. If Berge takes care of business first round, he will give Carr all he can handle. Not super likely. But upsets happen.
You could say the same about Desanto, Eierman, Marinelli and Kemerer. They didn’t come back for third or even second. Not super likely but all 4 could win National titles.
 

psbc19

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I think guys should be penalized for not auto-qualifying. I like what NCAAB does with the last 4 into the field where they have to play a pig-tail/play-in match. I don't know the numbers for at-large spots per weight, but assume it was 4 for every weight and you plug in two pig-tails with those guys rather than the lowest seeds.
 

El-Jefe

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I think guys should be penalized for not auto-qualifying. I like what NCAAB does with the last 4 into the field where they have to play a pig-tail/play-in match. I don't know the numbers for at-large spots per weight, but assume it was 4 for every weight and you plug in two pig-tails with those guys rather than the lowest seeds.
NCAAB has only one auto qualifier per conference -- the champ. Everybody else is at large.

And that's probably better than what we have in wrestling.
 
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nitlion6

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Maybe, but then it’s more likely Berge is there with them.
No. Even if Berge isn't wrestling Saturday night he will still have a vested interest. He will be watching his teammates competing and participating in the team championship celebration.
 

Cowbell Man

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I would think with "Lovely" Seedings that the expected scoring among 125, 149 and 157 would be a range from 6 to 12. Consolations are only 1/2 point so Bonus points are extremely important. If they score 6 points total I think there would be disappointment. 12 points I think would be pretty satisfying. Anything over 12 and I would bet most PSU fans will be planning on hoisting a trophy.....the one that says "Champs"
I would also say bonus points are extremely important because you basically have extra matches to earn bonus. Lose in the first round and you can wrestle 7 more times whereas a champ gets 5.
 

RB-Old

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I don't know if Berge will win but I have to believe there are a lot of guys with a worse seed than Berge that he'd like to see in the 2nd round.
 

creamery freak

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I’d really like to dig into these names but one jumped out at me because the name was quite familiar. Jennifer Tuscano at Pitt played basketball at a local high-school here in Somerset county then played for UPJ. So, a former girls basketball player at a very small highschool and Division 2 basketball player is seeding the premier wrestling event in the country.

Makes sense…
After reading your post about Jennifer it got me to thinking the NCAA could cut costs and double down. They could have the basketball seeding committee do wrestling too. Oh wait.🙄
 
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