Pound for Pound (P4P) rankings (at the season's commencement)

[dmm53]

Not bad: the top 2; 3 of the top 4; 4 of the top 7. Where will guys finish at the end of the year? Will or can anyone else (Nevills, Cassar, RBY, Nick Lee, Teasdale, Rasheed) enter the P4P list?

Rank Grade Name School Previous Rank Wt

1 SR Jason Nolf Penn State 3 157
2 SR Bo Nickal Penn State 4 197
3 JR Zahid Valencia Arizona State 5 174
4 JR Vincenzo Joseph Penn State 6 165
5 SR Seth Gross SD State 10 133
6 SO Yianni Diakomihalis Cornell 8 141
7 JR Mark Hall Penn State 11 174
8 SR Myles Martin Ohio State 12 184
9 SO Spencer Lee Iowa 13 125
10 JR Nick Suriano Rutgers 16 125
11 SO Hayden Hidlay NC State NR 157
12 SR Joey McKenna Ohio State 17 141
13 JR Jaydin Eierman Missouri NR 141
14 JR Stevan Micic Michigan 18 133
15 JR Kollin Moore Ohio State NR 197
16 JR Matt Kolodzik Princeton NR 149
17 SR Anthony Ashnault Rutgers NR 149
18 SR Micah Jordan Ohio State NR 149
19 SO Evan Wick Wisconsin NR 165
20 JR Myles Amine Michigan NR 174

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Not bad: the top 2; 3 of the top 4; 4 of the top 7. Where will guys finish at the end of the year? Will or can anyone else (Nevills, Cassar, RBY, Nick Lee, Teasdale, Rasheed) enter the P4P list?

Rank Grade Name School Previous Rank Wt

1 SR Jason Nolf Penn State 3 157
2 SR Bo Nickal Penn State 4 197
3 JR Zahid Valencia Arizona State 5 174
4 JR Vincenzo Joseph Penn State 6 165
5 SR Seth Gross SD State 10 133
6 SO Yianni Diakomihalis Cornell 8 141
7 JR Mark Hall Penn State 11 174
8 SR Myles Martin Ohio State 12 184
9 SO Spencer Lee Iowa 13 125
10 JR Nick Suriano Rutgers 16 125
11 SO Hayden Hidlay NC State NR 157
12 SR Joey McKenna Ohio State 17 141
13 JR Jaydin Eierman Missouri NR 141
14 JR Stevan Micic Michigan 18 133
15 JR Kollin Moore Ohio State NR 197
16 JR Matt Kolodzik Princeton NR 149
17 SR Anthony Ashnault Rutgers NR 149
18 SR Micah Jordan Ohio State NR 149
19 SO Evan Wick Wisconsin NR 165
20 JR Myles Amine Michigan NR 174

Spencer Lee is way too low on that list.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Spencer Lee is way too low on that list.

Lee should be 3 or 4

 

[liex26]

Lee should be 3 or 4

In reality he probably should be, but I'd have a hard time "ranking" him higher than 4
Vincenzo is 2 for 2 against one of the greats.
Mark Hall would be 3 if it weren't for how great Zahid has been.
On my list, Lee is #5 with an upward trajectory, probably to an eventual #1.

 

[Ja1339]

Looking forward to that ASU match.

 

[liex26]

Looking forward to that ASU match.

Me too.
Not to derail this thread, but I hope that in the match at ASU Mark really opens it up. Wrestling a tight match really plays to Zahid's favor imo. Mark is so good in the scrambles, if you keep pushing those situations the advantage shifts to Hall and he could also catch Zahid and stick him.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Me too.
Not to derail this thread, but I hope that in the match at ASU Mark really opens it up. Wrestling a tight match really plays to Zahid's favor imo. Mark is so good in the scrambles, if you keep pushing those situations the advantage shifts to Hall and he could also catch Zahid and stick him.

I think that Mark's strength is re-attacks and counters. It would be huge if Mark scores the first takedown against Zahid. Looking forward to it.

 

[Ja1339]

Rank Grade Name School Previous Rank Wt


10 JR Nick Suriano Rutgers 16 125

Ahhh, so that's where they get the perennial Top 10 from

 

[lobo lion]

Spencer Lee is way too low on that list.

As will be evident throughout the season and in the Hodge voting.

 

[RoarLions1]

Pound-for-pound, to me, is about winning first, then dominance. Point may be moot after Dec. 14th, but assuming both are undefeated, Lee and Z. Valencia are 3A and 3B...both with a very high Bonus Point Rate last year.

 

[pish69]

Lee should be ahead of Gross, Yianni and MyMar IMO.

I like the top 4 they have. Would probably go Lee 5, Yianni 6, Hall 7, MyMar 8, Gross 9. Gross and MyMar are favored to be 2 time champs. But Gross has a ton of losses early in career where MyMar had less bad losses.

 

[Cowbell Man]

I would have to agree with 5 for Spencer and could be convinced for higher.

 

[bowandarrow]

On paper Spencer is about where he should be. P4P is more of a career ranking it seems and Spencer's had very recent losses. (Could also be the case against Cnezo being #4). Obviously that changes with an undefeated, dominant season for Spencer--- which would surprise no one.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Pound-for-pound, to me, is about winning first, then dominance. Point may be moot after Dec. 14th, but assuming both are undefeated, Lee and Z. Valencia are 3A and 3B...both with a very high Bonus Point Rate last year,

For me, I like to consider what their chances of winning the next higher weight.
I would give Nolf a 50-50 shot against any 165, yep even Vinny.
I realize Bo would have the hardest time with the heavies but I would still give him a 30% chance.
Yanni may not even win his OWN weight.
I think Zahid has the leg up on Marky and would give him a 40% chance of taking 184 (of course he looks more like a 184)
Cenzo is gonna have a tough enough time with 165 moshpit, would give him a 25% chance against Wreck or ZV.
Spencer I would give a 40% chance to beat all at 133.
Everyone knows Gross cant beat a legit 141 (though huge props for trying)

Lee should be higher

 

[SWPA]

The Bresser loss hurst Lee and validates his spot on this list (that plus the Nato loss). Lee will be second behind Zahid at the end of the season and stay there until Zahid graduates.

 

[The Japanese Whizzer]

Not bad: the top 2; 3 of the top 4; 4 of the top 7. Where will guys finish at the end of the year? Will or can anyone else (Nevills, Cassar, RBY, Nick Lee, Teasdale, Rasheed) enter the P4P list?

Rank Grade Name School Previous Rank Wt

1 SR Jason Nolf Penn State 3 157
2 SR Bo Nickal Penn State 4 197
3 JR Zahid Valencia Arizona State 5 174
4 JR Vincenzo Joseph Penn State 6 165
5 SR Seth Gross SD State 10 133
6 SO Yianni Diakomihalis Cornell 8 141
7 JR Mark Hall Penn State 11 174
8 SR Myles Martin Ohio State 12 184
9 SO Spencer Lee Iowa 13 125
10 JR Nick Suriano Rutgers 16 125
11 SO Hayden Hidlay NC State NR 157
12 SR Joey McKenna Ohio State 17 141
13 JR Jaydin Eierman Missouri NR 141
14 JR Stevan Micic Michigan 18 133
15 JR Kollin Moore Ohio State NR 197
16 JR Matt Kolodzik Princeton NR 149
17 SR Anthony Ashnault Rutgers NR 149
18 SR Micah Jordan Ohio State NR 149
19 SO Evan Wick Wisconsin NR 165
20 JR Myles Amine Michigan NR 174

Looks like a down year for Penn State. Only 4 in the top 10. Hopefully Cael can coach up the other 6.

 

[RoarLions1]

After reading the thread, I can see that each person's criteria is a bit different, which is to be expected. How about a conversation on what YOU believe the criteria should be for P4P.

Mine is, as said above, but I'll clarify;
1) Winning (a loss hurts your "ranking")
2) Dominance (# of Bonus Point wins, with Falls worth more)

It is a "now" measure, to me. Not a career ranking, though for pre-season there's no choice but to use historical results.

 

[RoarLions1]

The Bresser loss hurst Lee and validates his spot on this list (that plus the Nato loss). Lee will be second behind Zahid at the end of the season and stay there until Zahid graduates.

I'm confused. Where's Nolf and Nickal at the end of the season? Or maybe you mean Zahid, then Spencer for 2019-20?

 

[SWPA]

I'm confused. Where's Nolf and Nickal at the end of the season? Or maybe you mean Zahid, then Spencer for 2019-20?

Yes, I mean after Nolf and Nickal win their championships this year and are out of eligibility.

 

[NoVa Lion]

After reading the thread, I can see that each person's criteria is a bit different, which is to be expected. How about a conversation on what YOU believe the criteria should be for P4P.

Mine is, as said above, but I'll clarify;
1) Winning (a loss hurts your "ranking")
2) Dominance (# of Bonus Point wins, with Falls worth more)

It is a "now" measure, to me. Not a career ranking, though for pre-season there's no choice but to use historical results.

I almost always inject in these discussions that the problem is everyone seems to have a different definition of P4P. Mine definition is who, IMHO is most likely to win their weight class in the upcoming season, which means I would have Lee ranked higher, because IMHO, unless Fix goes 125, Lee will be an undefeated NCAA champ this coming season. One thing I think most will agree on is that no matter how you define it Nolf is #1.

 

[El-Jefe]

Looks like a down year for Penn State. Only 4 in the top 10. Hopefully Cael can coach up the other 6.

We're hosed.

 

[Dogwelder]

Looks like a down year for Penn State. Only 4 in the top 10. Hopefully Cael can coach up the other 6.

Especially important because we need eight top-10-P4P wrestlers to win a championship, if I remember correctly.

 

[liex26]

After reading the thread, I can see that each person's criteria is a bit different, which is to be expected. How about a conversation on what YOU believe the criteria should be for P4P.

Mine is, as said above, but I'll clarify;
1) Winning (a loss hurts your "ranking")
2) Dominance (# of Bonus Point wins, with Falls worth more)

It is a "now" measure, to me. Not a career ranking, though for pre-season there's no choice but to use historical results.

My criteria is similar to STAND with PRIDE. Pound for Pound means best wrestler at any weight, if weight weren't considered. So the best comparison we can muster is the two nearest weights. Still very subjective of course.

Take Gross for example. Yes he wrestled a guy at 141, but that's not 100% fair either because it wasn't his true weight class. He was at a disadvantage, but it was still pretty clear he isn't P4P #1 IMO.
Or a more extreme example would be if Nickal cut to 125 he would probably die, and therefore FF. However, I would have Nickal #1 on my list over Nolf. I have seen Nolf get beat by a wrestler who was very close in skill set. I have only ever seen Nickal beat himself while being aggressive. He has been clearly better than every opponent he has faced.

 

[pish69]

. I have only ever seen Nickal beat himself while being aggressive. He has been clearly better than every opponent he has faced.

Very interesting take and never thought of it that way but I believe you’re right. Against Myles in finals freshman year and Jackson he was the better wrestler but got overly aggressive. I can’t remember the 2nd loss to Martin and how that one went down.

This is why I love message boards. You hear other people’s takes on things and it’s something you never thought about but then makes perfect sense

 

[okinburg1]

Especially important because we need eight top-10-P4P wrestlers to win a championship, if I remember correctly.

Eight (8) scoring wrestlers are required to win the NCAA championship, per multiple prior threads. Not necessarily top 10P4P, but that can only help.

 

[jrd23psu]

Nolf is my undisputed #1. Michael Kemerer wanted to get away from him so badly he jumped TWO weights just to be safe.