Lugo to iowa? getting close

[James P. Whitters III]

Simply not true
Sam Brooks- R12, 8, 4
Nathan Burak- R12, 8, 7, 4
Sam Stoll made huge gains from his redshirt year to his first year in the lineup. Unfortunately, he's gotten injured
Cash Wilcke made the R12 as a freshman coming off a not great redshirt year
Joey Gunther showed tremendous improvement from his redshirt year

I've never been one to deny that Cael can coach, but it is undeniable that PSU has been working with much better talent. Cenzo beat Anthony Ashnault after his senior year of high school, so he was already damn good coming into PSU. Was coming to PSU going to magically cure the tumor on Bo Jordan's foot that has hampered him the past few years? Iowa's coaches can go with anyone, but need to recruit to the level of a PSU and tOSU

You can cherry pick some to prove a point....but GrantG? Telford? St. John? Nick Moore? Ethan L?, These guys should get listed also. Beating Anthony Ashnault is no indication that you can beat Imar. Kemdog and Joseph were pretty equal when they left high school. Kemdog is very good but has a monster in Nolf ahead of him- Joseph is very good but figured out how to take his even bigger monster to his back and pin him. Call it whatever you want, but Iowa (under Brands) has simply not been able to get guys where they need to be on a regular basis if you exclude the first 2 weight classes. Cael has produced the results.

 

[matter7172]

Simply not true
Sam Brooks- R12, 8, 4
Nathan Burak- R12, 8, 7, 4
Sam Stoll made huge gains from his redshirt year to his first year in the lineup. Unfortunately, he's gotten injured
Cash Wilcke made the R12 as a freshman coming off a not great redshirt year
Joey Gunther showed tremendous improvement from his redshirt year

That is, unfortunately, not a very convincing case for 11 years of effort.

 

[Dogwelder]

That is, unfortunately, not a very convincing case for 11 years of effort.

Ouch! Are you saying I have to remove my "Best Boy, Second Grade" ribbon from its place of honor on my wall?

 

[1stplacehawk]

That is, unfortunately, not a very convincing case for 11 years of effort.

I clearly attempted to go back 11 years, while listing relevant results from the last two. Are you even trying?

 

[1stplacehawk]

You can cherry pick some to prove a point....but GrantG? Telford? St. John? Nick Moore? Ethan L?, These guys should get listed also. Beating Anthony Ashnault is no indication that you can beat Imar. Kemdog and Joseph were pretty equal when they left high school. Kemdog is very good but has a monster in Nolf ahead of him- Joseph is very good but figured out how to take his even bigger monster to his back and pin him. Call it whatever you want, but Iowa (under Brands) has simply not been able to get guys where they need to be on a regular basis if you exclude the first 2 weight classes. Cael has produced the results.

Way to cherry pick a bunch of injured wrestlers. You forgot to put senior McDonough on your list

 

[matter7172]

I clearly attempted to go back 11 years, while listing relevant results from the last two. Are you even trying?

It's one individual championship above 165 over 11 years. Four weight classes, 44 opportunities; one title since Brands took over; zero in the last 7 years. Projecting someone to win for Iowa over 165 is a wild crapshoot. The Brands just haven't done it. Here's a list of schools with more champions at 174-285 over that time: Penn State, Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Missouri, Iowa State, North Carolina State, Minnesota, Northwestern. These are simple, basic facts.

 

[WildTurk]

Its almost as if matter7172 has a personal vendetta against Brands. Good god

 

[1stplacehawk]

It's one individual championship above 165 over 11 years. Four weight classes, 44 opportunities; one title since Brands took over; zero in the last 7 years. Projecting someone to win for Iowa over 165 is a wild crapshoot. The Brands just haven't done it. Here's a list of schools with more champions at 174-285 over that time: Penn State, Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Missouri, Iowa State, North Carolina State, Minnesota, Northwestern. These are simple, basic facts.

You're changing the argument to suit your needs. James stated that Iowa struggles to coach guys above the light weights. While having some good wrestlers, recently, Iowa hasn't had one guy in any of the upper weights that I thought was talented enough to be a national champ. I don't view any wrestler above 165 as underachieving. The examples sighted (Nick Moore, Lofthouse, DSJ) all wrestled with significant injuries their senior years. I think the coaches have done very well with developing some of the heavier guys. Maybe some view that differently

 

[matter7172]

Its almost as if facts have a personal vendetta against Brands. Good god

FIFY

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Lets simplify this for the slow learner. Mike Evans was rated higher and better than Matt Brown when they met soph. year, but Matt Brown ended up being the better wrestler. Why? Coaching.
It is often stated that any lightweight would be a fool to go anywhere else because of Brands world domination etc. etc. etc. ok. This could be true, but at least admit that any 141-285 lb. recruit is not giving themselves the best chance to succeed by this same logic. Results? Who was the last Hawkeye to win Olympic Gold? Was it in any current recruits lifetime? I know the Cyclones have one in Varner (Thank you Cael). We hear the tired old line about international success for Iowa lightweights but it isn't based in reality either.
College coaches should be judged off college results. Cael>Brands.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Lets simplify this for the slow learner. Mike Evans was rated higher and better than Matt Brown when they met soph. year, but Matt Brown ended up being the better wrestler. Why? Coaching.
It is often stated that any lightweight would be a fool to go anywhere else because of Brands world domination etc. etc. etc. ok. This could be true, but at least admit that any 141-285 lb. recruit is not giving themselves the best chance to succeed by this same logic. Results? Who was the last Hawkeye to win Olympic Gold? Was it in any current recruits lifetime? I know the Cyclones have one in Varner (Thank you Cael). We hear the tired old line about international success for Iowa lightweights but it isn't based in reality either.
College coaches should be judged off college results. Cael>Brands.

Not much more to say after that.

 

[slushhead]

. . . Here's a list of schools with more champions at 174-285 over that time: Penn State, Ohio State, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Missouri, Iowa State, North Carolina State, Minnesota, Northwestern . . .

I don't know about all this my-coach-is-better-than-your-coach stuff, but I used to love me some Jake Herbert. Miss seeing that guy on the mat.

 

[matter7172]

Its almost as if matter7172 has a personal vendetta against Brands. Good god

And, really, it's no personal vendetta against Brands. It's a general intolerance of bs.

I have the same argument with people who claim Lebron James is the greatest NBA player of all time. If he *really* were that good, he'd have a lot more championships than 3 in 14 seasons. Then the litany of excuses for his failure to win, despite hand-picked teams with other superstars on them to make it easier for him, begin. But they are really attempts to excuse his failures. So something is missing.

I'd say with Brands one thing that is glaringly missing is any level of success with championships at the upper 4 weights (not that his record over the last 7 years at the other 6 weights has been very impressive). Zero in the last 7 years from 174-285 and one in his 11 years at Iowa. So when someone from HR blithely states that someone from those weight classes is going to win a championship, forgive me if I am not convinced.