If the BIG expands

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

Temple, don't remember any details or conference but they got kicked out, someone else will supply the details,

Was the Big East because they weren't competitive and unwilling to spend money on coaches or facilities. If Al Golden hadn't taken over as head coach they'd probably be FCS by now. And, they way they played the first two games, they still may end up there.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

Texas, Notre Dame, UVA, Va Tech, are all strong academic schools and make more sense for the conference. If we added U Conn, it would give Rutgers a rival and expand the TV market slightly towards New England.

ND, UVA and Va Tech are committed to the ACC until 2036-2037 academic year. ND because of a contract that says if they join a conference it will be the ACC, other two because of a GOR.

 

[Art]

Nothing has changed. And you're leaving out one big problem in that UH doesn't sponsor enough Olympic sports to be attractive. And it's the University Presidents that decide who joins the conference and they care about academics. But feel free to continue to pimp them on the board even though none of us have a say in who gets into the B1G.

Academics and Olympic sports don't mean diddly, even thought the president's pay lip service to it. It's all about money and Houston just doesn't bring it. There have to be eyes on sets for networks or cable companies to pay for rights or carriage fees. Location itself isn't enough. Houston is/was way down the list in terms of value. So was Nebraska, so strange things do happen.

 

[Art]

ND, UVA and Va Tech are committed to the ACC until 2036-2037 academic year. ND because of a contract that says if they join a conference it will be the ACC, other two because of a GOR.

Contracts like these have been busted before. Just a question of how much it costs.

 

[Nitwit]

Didn’t know about the escape clause costs. I wouldn’t be in favor of adding any team which dilutes the conference either athletically or academically. Virginia and Maryland would be a nice pairing, much less so with U Conn and RU, but it would be feasible. Iowa State (for Iowa) and Colorado (for Nebraska) are other possibilities that would work in the West.

 

[pandaczar12]

Didn’t know about the escape clause costs. I wouldn’t be in favor of adding any team which dilutes the conference either athletically or academically. Virginia and Maryland would be a nice pairing, much less so with U Conn and RU, but it would be feasible. Iowa State (for Iowa) and Colorado (for Nebraska) are other possibilities that would work in the West.

I just wish PSU had an in state rival that wouldn't dilute the conference either athletically or academically, that could join.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

Contracts like these have been busted before. Just a question of how much it costs.

That's true, but doesn't mean someone is going to pony up to buy out almost 20 years of GOR. That's like me saying an asteroid may hit the earth tomorrow. Although true, highly unlikely it's going to happen. Maryland had to pay $31 million to get out of the ACC and the ACC bylaws then weren't as severe as they are now. Any school that tries to leave the ACC now will probably be in the hundreds of millions and what school or prospective conference is going to cover that?

 

[lionNYC]

They got kicked out of the Big East, because of a lack of competitiveness and a lack of commitment to the program. I think they got a reprieve and then moved to the MAC, and the back to the remainder of the Big East which became the AAC.

I believe it had to do with attendance or a combination of attendance and other factors.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

That's true, but doesn't mean someone if going to pony up to buy out almost 20 years of GOR. That's like me saying an asteroid may hit the earth tomorrow. Although true, highly unlikely it's going to happen. Maryland had to pay $31 million to get out of the ACC and the ACC bylaws then weren't as severe as they are now. Any school that tries to leave the ACC now will in the probably be in the hundreds of millions and what school or prospective conference is going to cover that?

Maryland never had to worry about a GOR. And as you say, no one is stupid enough to challenge it. However, there is a chance there may be some agreed upon horse trading by 2024.

The way things are looking now, highly unlikely, but still remotely possible.

 

[LafayetteBear]

And it's the University Presidents that decide who joins the conference and they care about academics.

This ^^^^.

 

[BlueBand]

Oklahoma for the athletics side, Texas for academics and athletics. Bump someone from the West (Pudon’t) over to the East. Makes the West more competitive in football, reaches the conference into football cray cray Texas.

I know we hear Texas to PAC, but I think if they’re rational, one thing will stop it. Does Texas really want to play road games at night in non-prime time when half the country has gone to bed? Plus they keep the Oklahoma rivalry, and get back Nebraska, which helps losing aTm to the SEC

As for Longhorn Network, ESPN would probably let them out. It’s not been successful for them from a money standpoint. Texas has to swallow their pride on it. Or, the BIG gets progressive, and allows schools to create subscription based online networks affiliated with BTN that are school specific and handle overflow, classic games, more Olympic sports, etc. Maybe that programming also gets broadcast on a BTN2 cable channel (although that would dilute the value of the inline subscription). Schools could produce their own shows in conjunction with local or college broadcasters and/or BTN, to show on their channels. Maybe more interviews and features, primarily of interest to that schools fans.

 

[Art]

That's true, but doesn't mean someone is going to pony up to buy out almost 20 years of GOR. That's like me saying an asteroid may hit the earth tomorrow. Although true, highly unlikely it's going to happen. Maryland had to pay $31 million to get out of the ACC and the ACC bylaws then weren't as severe as they are now. Any school that tries to leave the ACC now will probably be in the hundreds of millions and what school or prospective conference is going to cover that?

You're assuming that only one school leaves at a time. Further, given the gap between Big Ten and ACC payouts, $100mm gets made up in about five years.

 

[Art]

This ^^^^ is bullshit..

Fixed it for you.

 

[Art]

Not sure if serious.

Most of them couldn't give a rat's fart about the "academics" of their OWN SCHOOL, let alone a prospective new member to the conference they belong to.

Now, there you are wrong. Most of them get paid bonuses based on various measures of academic standing, so they certainly do give not only a rat's fart, but its entire ass.

As far as the academic standing of the schools against whom they compete athletically, seriously? It's all about the Benjamins.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Why not?? Rutgers was let in.

The real twist of the knife with Rutgers and Maryland is that the conference said it was for Penn State's benefit. WTF.

 

[Art]

The real twist of the knife with Rutgers and Maryland is that the conference said it was for Penn State's benefit. WTF.

Heard that, but I really don't know where these dipshits come off.

Reality is that it's about the money. Sad reality is that we'll never know.

 

[NedFromYork]

With cord cutting recruiting territory has become just as important as TV sets and NJ and MD/DC/VA bring both. The product on the field has to be of high quality for consumers to buy it. MD and Rutgers were brought in for their recruiting territories as much as anything else.

 

[Art]

That may be so...... perhaps I have an outlier “proximity bias”, being that The Six Million Dollar Man surely isn’t tied to any academic measures vav his compensation - - - - unless they are using some inverse metric

Oh, he just gets paid for being a blithering idiot. More blither, more dough.

 

[Art]

With cord cutting recruiting territory has become just as important as TV sets and NJ and MD/DC/VA bring both. The product on the field has to be of high quality for consumers to buy it. MD and Rutgers were brought in for their recruiting territories as much as anything else.

Seriously? I have trouble buying that, but ya never know.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

You're assuming that only one school leaves at a time. Further, given the gap between Big Ten and ACC payouts, $100mm gets made up in about five years.

The GOR gives the ACC TV rights until the end of the GOR. I know that you can never let anyone else have the last word, but no ACC team is going to leave anytime soon. Your speculation that any team will be able to get out of THE GOR until near the end of it is ridiculous. No conference will take Clemson or Florida St unless TV rights come with them. And no conference will touch 8 of the teams in the ACC even if the TV rights come with them.

 

[Art]

The GOR gives the ACC TV rights until the end of the GOR. I know that you can never let anyone else have the last word, but no ACC team is going to leave anytime soon. Your speculation that any team will be able to get out of THE GOR until near the end of it is ridiculous. No conference will take Clemson or Florida St unless TV rights come with them. And no conference will touch 8 of the teams in the ACC even if the TV rights come with them.

If multiple teams decide to leave at the same time because they can get more money elsewhere, the GOR, if not worthless, diminishes considerably in value. I'm not saying that it's going to happen, but only a fool believes it's a rock-solid impediment.

 

[rmem]

would this teams resume be enough

since 2003 122-73 record
the last 10 years wins over these teams
Arizona
Oklahoma
Louisville
Florida State
Pittsburgh
UCLA
Penn State
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech

If you transferred from Houston to most any b1g school after going there for 3 years, how many credits would transfer?

There's your answer.

Pitt would be a much better choice, and you know how much we love Pitt around here.

 

[Art]

If you transferred from Houston to most any b1g school after going there for 3 years, how many credits would transfer?

There's your answer.

Pitt would be a much better choice, and you know how much we love Pitt around here.

Why does that matter when considering Houston for membership in the Big Ten?

And I've got news for you: any of the the jucos transferring into PSU is bringing a minimum of 48 credits with him. So why don't you tell us how Lackawanna is a better school than Houston?

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

If multiple teams decide to leave at the same time because they can get more money elsewhere, the GOR, if not worthless, diminishes considerably in value. I'm not saying that it's going to happen, but only a fool believes it's a rock-solid impediment.

I don't believe you understand how a GOR works. If a team leaves the conference they are leaving keeps the teams TV rights and TV money. How does the original conferences TV contract or the GOR diminish in value?

 

[Art]

I don't believe you understand how a GOR works. If a team leaves the conference they are leaving keeps the teams TV rights and TV money. How does the original conferences TV contract or the GOR diminish in value?

And if a sufficient number of teams leave so that there is no conference? And do you think a network continues to pay a conference the same amount of money to broadcast games that have no bearing on the conference? Can the conference withhold revenue sharing from teams that have left while receiving money for the broadcast of their games? What if teams that have left play no home games for a year or two? What if they play at nearby "neutral" sites?

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

And if a sufficient number of teams leave so that there is no conference? And do you think a network continues to pay a conference the same amount of money to broadcast games that have no bearing on the conference? Can the conference withhold revenue sharing from teams that have left while receiving money for the broadcast of their games? What if teams that have left play no home games for a year or two? What if they play at nearby "neutral" sites?

Either you really don't know how a GOR works or your just being ridiculous because you can't ever let anyone have the last word. ACC would still retain the rights until the GOR is over and every team that leaves makes the GOR all the more valuable for the remaining teams. Just admit that your proposed scenarios are ridiculous.

 

[LMTLION]

Clearly we need to expand into Virginia or the Carolinas to expand into areas of population growth and geographic proximity that makes more sense than FL or TX. Personally I would take the two VIrginia schools for both academic and athletic alignment and call it a day.

 

[Art]

Either you really don't know how a GOR works or your just being ridiculous because you can't ever let anyone have the last word. ACC would still retain the rights until the GOR is over and every team that leaves makes the GOR all the more valuable for the remaining teams. Just admit that your proposed scenarios are ridiculous.

And maybe you don't know how a network contract works? They contain change of affiliation clauses which can result in adjustments of media rights fees based on the composition of a conference? So if a bunch of key teams leave the ACC do you think ESPN is simply going to pay them the same amount? And they're not operating in a vacuum. They know that at then end there will be winners and losers and it behooves them to pick winners and hasten resolution. Whose side do you think they take if Clemson and FSU decide they want to be in the SEC?

 

[Art]

Clearly we need to expand into Virginia or the Carolinas to expand into areas of population growth and geographic proximity that makes more sense than FL or TX. Personally I would take the two VIrginia schools for both academic and athletic alignment and call it a day.

Texas and ND for the money.

 

[Art]

What would be very “interesting” would be to listen to someone try to explain - - - in real, concrete terms - - - what the net benefit would be, to the existing members, of adding UVA and VT (or whomever) to the B10.

That is a “lecture” I’d pay to listen to......

All you'd need to do is get a tape of Delany's pitch of Nebraska to the Big Ten presidents and change the name(s). How he managed to get that through, even with the assistance of Spankie Pants, is beyond me. Maybe he never showed them the Blair valuations.

 

[SheldonJoe2215]

Why does that matter when considering Houston for membership in the Big Ten?

And I've got news for you: any of the the jucos transferring into PSU is bringing a minimum of 48 credits with him. So why don't you tell us how Lackawanna is a better school than Houston?

I've got a Shetland Sheepdog that could probably graduate from Houston if he had thumbs.

 

[Art]

I've got a Shetland Sheepdog that could probably graduate from Houston if he had thumbs.

Then he could probably get an AA from Lackawanna without them.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

That one - to me - is more of a “turd in the hot tub” than RU.
And my feelings on the long-term “benefits” of the RU addition are not good

I can see you've never taken a business stategy class nor can u think strategically.

It's ok. Some folks are just dumb.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

And maybe you don't know how a network contract works? They contain change of affiliation clauses which can result in adjustments of media rights fees based on the composition of a conference? So if a bunch of key teams leave the ACC do you think ESPN is simply going to pay them the same amount? And they're not operating in a vacuum. They know that at then end there will be winners and losers and it behooves them to pick winners and hasten resolution. Whose side do you think they take if Clemson and FSU decide they want to be in the SEC?

They pay them the same amount because ESPN will still own the rights to the Clemson and FSU home games. What part of that are you having trouble with? It was ESPN that required the GOR to sign the extension and start the ACC network. Just admit that you're wrong. If Clemson or FSU were to join the B1G or the SEC it would increase the value of the ACC network because more B1G and SEC games would be on the ACC Network. Having those games on the ACC Network would be a dream scenario for the ACC and ESPN.

 

[Art]

They pay them the same amount because ESPN will still own the rights to the Clemson and FSU home games. What part of that are you having trouble with? It was ESPN that required the GOR to sign the extension and start the ACC network. Just admit that you're wrong. If Clemson or FSU were to join the B1G or the SEC it would increase the value of the ACC network because more B1G and SEC games would be on the ACC Network. Having those games on the ACC Network would be a dream scenario for the ACC and ESPN.

Uh, uh. In that example Clemson and FSU are no longer members of the ACC so the change of affiliation clause is triggered.

But since your so invested in the iron-clad nature of the GOR, put yourself in ESPN's position. Clemson and FSU bolt to the SEC and the rights fees to all of their (new) conference home games revert ot the ACC because of the GOR. That make Clemson, FSU, and the SEC very unhappy? How do you think ESPN feels about being in the middle of this pissing contest? Oh, they don't care, they'll simply cut checks to the ACC as if nothing is going on.

Where the GOR works is in preventing one school from skedaddling. More than one, not so much. And if you don't think that college presidents whose schools are parties to GORs haven't discussed scenarios of how to get out, then you think they're dumber than I do.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

Uh, uh. In that example Clemson and FSU are no longer members of the ACC so the change of affiliation clause is triggered.

But since your so invested in the iron-clad nature of the GOR, put yourself in ESPN's position. Clemson and FSU bolt to the SEC and the rights fees to all of their (new) conference home games revert ot the ACC because of the GOR. That make Clemson, FSU, and the SEC very unhappy? How do you think ESPN feels about being in the middle of this pissing contest? Oh, they don't care, they'll simply cut checks to the ACC as if nothing is going on.

Where the GOR works is in preventing one school from skedaddling. More than one, not so much. And if you don't think that college presidents whose schools are parties to GORs haven't discussed scenarios of how to get out, then you think they're dumber than I do.

Once again, you don't know how the GOR works. Even if FSU and Clemson leave, the ACC will not cease to exist. Why would ESPN trigger any clause in any contract and renegotiate with the ACC? What advantage is there to ESPN to break a contract that suddenly increased in value and doesn't cost them anything extra. This pissing contest you talk about will never happen because no conference will take FSU or Clemson unless there is a guarantee that the rights come with them. Just give up.

 

[Art]

Once again, you don't know how the GOR works. Even if FSU and Clemson leave, the ACC will not cease to exist. Why would ESPN trigger any clause in any contract and renegotiate with the ACC? What advantage is there to ESPN to break a contract that suddenly increased in value and doesn't cost them anything extra. This pissing contest you talk about will never happen because no conference will take FSU or Clemson unless there is a guarantee that the rights come with them. Just give up.

The clause is triggered when the composition of the conference changes from the time the contract was signed.

So the contract increases in value when the ACC is reduced in number and loses it's two marquee teams? Sure. But maybe that's offset by the SEC games to which the ACC owns the rights. Maybe. Of course the SEC is going to be perfectly happy with that arrangement and will allow to ESPN to continue along its merry way for another 15 or more years. Maybe in your world, but not this one.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Uh, uh. In that example Clemson and FSU are no longer members of the ACC so the change of affiliation clause is triggered.

But since your so invested in the iron-clad nature of the GOR, put yourself in ESPN's position. Clemson and FSU bolt to the SEC and the rights fees to all of their (new) conference home games revert ot the ACC because of the GOR. That make Clemson, FSU, and the SEC very unhappy? How do you think ESPN feels about being in the middle of this pissing contest? Oh, they don't care, they'll simply cut checks to the ACC as if nothing is going on.

Where the GOR works is in preventing one school from skedaddling. More than one, not so much. And if you don't think that college presidents whose schools are parties to GORs haven't discussed scenarios of how to get out, then you think they're dumber than I do.

Quite true. Some conference will be ripped apart, and GoR will mean nothing. Ultimately there will be only 4 big conferences, with 16 teams at the least. Not sure when it will happen, but probably within 4 years. Probably big12 is dismantled. If a couple teams each go to acc, big10, pac10, the majority of the conference is leaving & they can win a conference vote to disband. There would, at most, be some buyouts to the unfortunate schools left in the cold.

 

[anon_is9z1n0h3zblb]

The clause is triggered when the composition of the conference changes from the time the contract was signed.

So the contract increases in value when the ACC is reduced in number and loses it's two marquee teams? Sure. But maybe that's offset by the SEC games to which the ACC owns the rights. Maybe. Of course the SEC is going to be perfectly happy with that arrangement and will allow to ESPN to continue along its merry way for another 15 or more years. Maybe in your world, but not this one.

And how does the value of the TV contract diminish? That's the ESPN corporate world, not mine. No one is leaving the ACC until the end of the GOR unless there is such a radical change in the economics of college sports that the current contract is a financial burden on both sides.

 

[Art]

And how does the value of the TV contract diminish? That's the ESPN corporate world, not mine. No one is leaving the ACC until the end of the GOR unless there is such a radical change in the economics of college sports that the current contract is a financial burden on both sides.

Don't hold your breath.