Future Lineups & Potential Logjams
- Thread starter backdrft76
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Great argument! I listened to flo debate this recently and I think they of course went with Spencer “because he is so dominant” in his wins. I don’t like that line of thought. Yes, he has a ton of techs and falls but like you pointed out he has 5 losses while Yianni has 1. I really want to hear the HR response to your post.
I forgot about Correa. He’s going to be really good. Projects as a heavy in college? Would you rather get Correa or Hopke? Cael has a couple years to work on Duke and show him he belongs at PSU
So, Zain's two best victories in his career are Logan Stieber (4x NCAA champ) and Brandon Sorenson (NCAA finalist and 4x AA) - who he beat 6 times in his career without a loss - not an easy feat.
Spencer's two best are Suriano once and Tomasello twice (with a loss). Next best win - Pat Glory?? Ha!
Tell me what I'm missing. Again, Spencer lost to Ronnie Bresser, Nick Piccinini, and Rivera twice.
If Flo went with Spencer because he is "so dominant" then I'm sure they will agree that David Taylor's NCAA career should be ranked ahead of Kyle Dake's - it's not really close.
It makes sense because Flo is the TMZ of wrestling media and I would liken Spencer to the People Magazine GOAT of wrestling.
Yianni's only loss was to Eierman who took him down with a cradle to a NF with :10 left (Yianni was up 6-4 and lost 9-6). IIRC, he was only turned one other time (maybe twice).
Dan Gable is 25th on that list and falling fast.
Somebody tell me how Spencer Lee is a greater college wrestler than Dan Gable.
I think it goes something like "something something bonus wins something something two bad knees something something..."
Pretty sure Van Brill and Jordan said "oh crap." Or something to that effect.
With Fix wrestling at "Cut Weight University", maybe he could stay away from dad's juice, slim down to 125 and put an end to the entire HR fantasy land festival.
Rivera (4 time AA) is Spencer’s next best wins with 2 losses. Suriano and Tomasello are both former National Champions.
Rivera also beat him twice. And was not as good a college wrestler as Sorensen.
We're quibbling which is exactly my point.
#1 win - Steiber (ZR)
#2 win - Suriano (SL)
#3 win - Tomasello x2 (SL)
#4 win - Sorenson x6 (ZR)
Worst loss - Bresser (SL)
2nd worst - Piccinini (by fall) (SL)
3rd worst - Rivera x2 (SL)
4th worst - Mitchell Port - returning NCAA finalist at the time (ZR)
I put Zain up there as his career and Spencers will only be fairly comparable if Spencer goes undefeated this year. And Zain was ranked 16th in the last Intermat all-time wrestler rankings, which was fair. 15 to 20 type guy all-time.
Hopefully Spencer can finish undefeated this year and work his way into the top 20.
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Becoming only the 5th four time champ should put him in the top 20.
Agreed.
Sarcasm aside, if CS wins his 5th a couple of years from now I'm sure you will agree that he is the GOAT.
then you get into the unfair advantage of having another year.... what if Cael could go another, etc, etc...Agreed.
Sarcasm aside, if CS wins his 5th a couple of years from now I'm sure you will agree that he is the GOAT.
Dice relax, Madden is an absolute idiot, Lee is so far down the list, it’s not worth taking about.Agreed.
Sarcasm aside, if CS wins his 5th a couple of years from now I'm sure you will agree that he is the GOAT.
Who can argue with that analysis. I guess it’s settled.
Cael has another year?Agreed.
Sarcasm aside, if CS wins his 5th a couple of years from now I'm sure you will agree that he is the GOAT.
Seriously, if Carter runs the table, he's a 4x champ with 1 career loss as a freshman to an NCAA Finalist/4x AA, and several wins over NCAA champs/finalists. Which is basically Yianni's career.
Yeah, I forgot about Washington.
Career wins are probably comparable.
Carter would have multiple vs. Lewis and Kemerer, plus Hidlay. Plus whoever is incoming/upcoming.
Yianni would have 2x McKenna, 2x Eierman, Meredith, Heil one match before Heil got pinned by Red in the blood round, early-career Nick Lee, and Sasso.
Let's just say this, I am jazzed to see Carter win the next 2 and mow through the field with an 80%+ bonus rate.
Thanks Dicemen, great argument and support.
I will always have a hard time considering a 125lb or Hwt as a GOAT.
I will always have a hard time considering a 125lb or Hwt as a GOAT.
I'm just sad that I didn't tune into the Bat Channel last night. This stuff is gold!
A thread that left @jmadden1998 gifless.
A thread that left @jmadden1998 gifless.
Any list will be tainted by the views of the author(s). The only thing I can say with certain confidence is Cael is/was/and may always be the greatest college wrestler of all time and it isn't even close. I can also say Jason Nolf has been my favorite wrestler to watch since Cael by a wide margin. It is ok to hold a bias. It is what makes us fans. Calling a great poster like JMadden an idiot for thinking Spencer Lee is top flight seems reckless and unfair.
I'm right with you, but as I pointed out earlier, I'm leaving that out of my argument. Whether it is 106 or 125, people always point out the talent that passes through those weight classes, but conveniently leave out that is passes through when it is less mature on their way to real weight classes (95% of the time in HS and 75% of the time in college). As far as the HWT, well, at the ends of the bell curve you've got less competition. People call this crop of 285s passing through "generational." You see that kind of depth at one of the middle weights pretty much every year. That holds true for 125 as well.
Ok. Let's just go with
That seems a reasonable compromise.
I'm not sure why that guy called JMadden an idiot, but it may not have to do with thinking Spencer Lee is top flight. As far as I can see above, the only thing JMadden thinks about Spencer is that he has a great tilt and could possibly be a top 20 wrestler of all time if he wins his 4th.
I think Spencer is top-flight as well, so maybe Nittany thinks I'm an idiot (now I've got myself confused). I just don't think he's "generational" or even the top wrestler of his NCAA era. I think he's in a position to be comparable with a bunch of guys we've seen over the past 10 years if he finishes strong.
He's got a great PR team, though, and that's been true since he was back in HS. Where he lost a few times as well.
Actually, the thing that jumps out at me is if Gable, Hodge, and Owings had wrestled 4 years, they may have well been in the top 5 and possible Gable would have been in the top position. I know it's a lotta IFs, but Gable almost had the same number of bonus points in 3 years as Cael had in 4. Maybe I'm reading the data wrong, or maybe the tourney points were different back then. FWIW, it wouldn't be first time for me to be wrong.
as a baby Goat.Where would Starocci fall on the Mt. Rushmore of NCAA wrestling if he were to finish his career at approximately 125-2 with 5 NCAA Championships?*
*admittedly way early prognostication.
I took the use of the word "idiot" in that situation to be more of a brotherly like term of endearment than an insult. 😁
