Let me say first off that while I am critical of CJF, I am not ready to call for a change at HC. But many people at Michigan are calling for Harbaugh to step down. If you compare the two coaches here are the numbers. Winning pct. Franklin .677, Harbaugh. 708. Record vs. Ohio State and Michigan State, Franklin 4-11, Harbaugh 3-11. Franklin does have a BIG championship. Head to head,, 3-3. Very similar.
Franklin vs. Harbaugh
- Thread starter Alphalion75
- Start date
name the B1G coach who has a winning record against tOSU- maybe we should get that guy -if he exists
Not really a fair comparison because of the sanctions and considering what Franklin took over when he got here. We had like 1 or 2 scholarship tackles on the roster. We were moving lightly recruited 3 star DT’s to start on our offensive line because there was nothing else.
Would you settle for a win every 3 years against the Buckeyes? Oops, sorry that guy past away.
I don’t care for Harbaugh. He is a quirky jackass. Having said that you don’t fire a 7-1 coach. Nebraska fired Frank Solich during a 9-3 season. and there program has not been the same since. In our situation Franklin is going to have to recruit his way out of this if he stays. Next year barring a big influx of portal kids probably will be a rebuild. 2023 if we are still 7-5 then I would say it’s time to take a close look.
Franklin has a 68% win record in the BIG- including his first two years at 7-6 when sanctions were still hurting the program. Joe had a 70% win record in the B1G. Take out the first two years and CJF has a significantly better win percentage in the B1G than Joe did. If you don't believe me- go look it up like I did.
I loved Joe, but the truth is the truth- too many people here think our history is a lot better than it really is.
two points to consider:
1. UM has better underlying fundamentals (money, resources, etc) and there is an argument to be made that UM has given JH everything he’s asked for to succeed (don’t think you could say the same at PSU)
2. CJF (comparatively) has had far more “signature” or big wins (OSU, UM, @Wisc, Aub, B1G) - beyond UM’s route of ND in 2019, i can’t recall another signature or big win UM has had under JH (and I think his bowl record is worse)
we could reasonably quibble about whether CJF’s wins (other than OSU and the B1G) were “big” but JH doesn’t come close IMO
1. UM has better underlying fundamentals (money, resources, etc) and there is an argument to be made that UM has given JH everything he’s asked for to succeed (don’t think you could say the same at PSU)
2. CJF (comparatively) has had far more “signature” or big wins (OSU, UM, @Wisc, Aub, B1G) - beyond UM’s route of ND in 2019, i can’t recall another signature or big win UM has had under JH (and I think his bowl record is worse)
we could reasonably quibble about whether CJF’s wins (other than OSU and the B1G) were “big” but JH doesn’t come close IMO
That wasn't my question- I said hire the guy with a winning record against tOSU- got anyone?
Maybe give Saban a call- see if he's interested.
+1.
if they can keep the recruiting class together and no reason to think they cant unless something really bad happens. They will fix at least one issue with the run game.
I agree they will have to be super aggressive and smart in the portal.
IMO they need an answer as soon as possible from Clifford if he's coming back. (I hope he does) if he does they don't need any portal QB. We will need to look for some OL and DL help and possible at LBR.
Although best for the team in the short term, I don’t want Clifford back. I prefer college football for the turnover of players and recruiting. This 5/6 year things stinks and it’s time for the next guys to shine.
We have 5 and 4 star QBs joining next year. Are both January admits? Should we just figure out which is ready for prime time and play them?
Even with the best tailback in school history we lost games we led in. because we could not run when needed.
Saban's 1-1 against OSU. Won last year and lost to OSU in the 2014-2015 playoffs. He won last year with - maybe, along with 2001 Miami - many consider the best CF team this century. The one coach _ I believe - that might have OSU's number - and a winning record - is "praise the lord" Dabo Swinney, Well, until last year when he got curb stomped by OSU in the playoffs
BB...We will fix one issue with the addition of Singleton and other backs coming in. Problem is...they have to run behind this OL. This part has me scratching my head. Is Franklin not recruiting top tier OL guys? Is he recruiting them and striking out and bringing in Plan B guys? Or are they just poorly coached? Because we have yet to play a game where our OL was better than the DL we faced....and that includes Ball St and Nova...They are putrid.
I can tell you've already scrubbed the 1998 Sparty win in Columbus from your memory
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That's a fair rundown.
Obviously for Harbaugh, it's Ohio State. For Michigan, that's all that matters (well, almost). And he flat out cannot beat them.
Otherwise, the two seem to share more similarities than differences. But in terms of big games, I'd argue Franklin has struggled in that department, too.
We have one win over a top-5 team this century. So our big game problems go back well before Franklin. We haven't had a top-10 win since 2016. Franklin performs very well in games against teams #11-25, but those signature wins seem to elude him. 2016 OSU and Wisconsin can only carry you so far.
To his credit, though, his teams are ready to play OSU. Just can't get over that hump.
I was injecting some humor my friend. Joe's teams beat OSU on occasion.
But then we’d have to accept multiple consecutive losses to Michigan and Iowa, so there’s that.
Many will tell you that was one of the top 4 or 5 OSU teams going back to the 60s. That one really hurt OSU fans - damn Saban. You're right though, He's 2-1 - forgot all about that one, good catch.I can tell you've already scrubbed the 1998 Sparty win in Columbus from your memory
Let me remind you that a good running game requires a good RB and also a good OL. Singleton can only run as far as his OL allows.
Illinois had 7 offensive lineman in the game . The problem was PSU stayed in their base defense . That was bad coaching
id say the problem was Penn State couldn’t manage to score more than 10 points vs a dreadful defense
He’s 3-2.
Wins at msu in 98-98. Lost is 99.
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1-1 at bama with the split in the playoffs.
I beg to differ… we brought in a dime package against the 7 OL! That’s some dynamic adjusting right there!!
That would set things up very nicely for the future with who we have coming in
That would be HUGE for PSU. he's definitely the backbone of the team. The difference of PSU with, and without, Clifford is like night and day
I'm on board for Franklin leaving, but I hate when people bring up Franklin's record and do not mention he took over a sanctioned program. It's especially bad when PSU fans do it.
To think the comparison is apples to apples is crazy.
I think Michigan fans may have higher standards than Penn State fans. They expect Big Ten championships and to beat Ohio State, which has not happened under Harbaugh.
In my opinion, our losses to Iowa and Illinois were just not acceptable, and these types of losses seem to be the norm with Franklin. I also don’t believe Franklin should be negotiating a raise to stay at Penn State. When does it get to the point that Franklin should be fired? If we are content with 3-4 losses per year, then he won’t be fired. Do we deserve better than 3-4 losses per year? The 2021 season is slipping away, which would be 2 consecutive mediocre seasons.
Listened to T Frank after the game and he said Trautwein is recruiting a different body type than previously. He also said that the players matching that body type are still in high school and won't contribute for another 2-3 years.
Can’t wait that long. By then we might have a different HD, or OC, and a completely different system.
2-3 years? WTF....so they aren't even at PSU???? Wow...that really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Different body type? What the hell does that mean. Gimme the body types that Wisky gets...they are all over the place.
Clifford was very emotional after the game during his interview. I can see going either way and he will a tough decision to make if it isn't made for him.
Coming back--unfinished business (wants to beat OSU during his career); he is improving under Yurcich; he is not NFL ready; only losing Dotson among skill positions
Leaving--been a four year starter; reality he isn't a NFL QB so time to move on; this year was likely the year to have shot at B!0 champions; potential for inuries
Wildcard: NIL $
Ag
Also sanctions hurt Franklin a lot more than the first two years. His ability to recruit top athletes into the program.
Three stars were big time.
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Agree about Joe particularly in the later years. Remember Spanier and Curly calling at Joe's house to have him retire.
Also sanctions hurt Franklin a lot more than the first two years. His ability to recruit top athletes into the program.
Three stars were big time.
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