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Ciarrocca

Lets face facts: outside of KJ, we've had a ton of highly recruited WRs come in and simply not play to expectations. When that happens directionally, you've got to start wondering what is wrong with their development and coaching.

With less quality athletes, Minny put together a great passing attack last year. Against us, they ran a really great situational passing attack where they ran to the spot when we blitzed. They also ran slants in front of our S. And when our S moved up to cut off the slant, they ran a slant/out behind the CB to expose our pass D. These routs were situational depending upon the PSU D (based on LB and S coverage). Whatever we did, they reacted and were successful.

In the OP, it is stated that the WR are being DRILLED to run precise routes. You run three steps and cut; not two and not four...three. Why is this important? The QB has to know what the WR is going to do so he can release the ball while the WR cuts so that ball arrives in a place the WR will be in the second. If this hasn't be being done in the recent past, no wonder our highly recruited WR's haven't panned out. This is passing game fundamentals.
So none of the prior coaches worked with receivers to run "precise" cuts? Imagine, the QB has to know where the receiver will be....I'll be damned. Here I thought all our coaches had transferred over to curing the COVID Crisis. LOL
Damn, it's a wonder our guys know how to buckle their chin straps.
I'll bet our receiver coaches were teaching drops too...
 
So none of the prior coaches worked with receivers to run "precise" cuts? Imagine, the QB has to know where the receiver will be....I'll be damned. Here I thought all our coaches had transferred over to curing the COVID Crisis. LOL
Damn, it's a wonder our guys know how to buckle their chin straps.
I'll bet our receiver coaches were teaching drops too...

“Everybody go long.”
 
I wouldn't say every other OC did what Ciarrocca did to us, although several did. Perhaps coach's contribution is just as valuable in advising our defensive staff how he took advantage of them better than 90%+ of our competition?
I want Jeff Brohm. He self assesses. He beat Ohio State. Our stupid ass defensive staff never would have figured out what Minny did to us if not for good ole Coach C. Imagine, all those years our O going against our D in practice and no exchange of information. No self scouting. No wonder we only win 10-11 games a year.
 
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So none of the prior coaches worked with receivers to run "precise" cuts? Imagine, the QB has to know where the receiver will be....I'll be damned. Here I thought all our coaches had transferred over to curing the COVID Crisis. LOL
Damn, it's a wonder our guys know how to buckle their chin straps.
I'll bet our receiver coaches were teaching drops too...
"precise" is a variable term. I was quoting comments made by the QB, Sean Clifford. Perhaps people want everything to be a black/white light switch. Life and football aren't like that. It is a matter of discipline and consistency. I'll lean on the QB to make those observations since none of us is watching practice, let alone making the throws.
 
“Everybody go long.”
There in lies the problem. No dirt at the Beav to draw plays in. Where do we get these sorry ass coaches? If the "staff" here were not preoccupied with getting us thru the pandemic, we'd get them straightened out. You have to run precise routes and catch the ball. I'll bet they've never even been drilled to catch the ball at its highest point....or to come back to the ball on short routes......so much to do....
 
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There in lies the problem. No dirt at the Beav to draw plays in. Where do we get these sorry ass coaches? If the "staff" here were not preoccupied with getting us thru the pandemic, we'd get them straightened out. You have to run precise routes and catch the ball. I'll bet they've never even been drilled to catch the ball at its highest point....or to come back to the ball on short routes......so much to do....

Clifford at practice: “I’m all-time quarterback.”

Yeah, a stick and dirt is all they need to run the offense. We aren’t ELITE. o_O .

😁
 
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"precise" is a variable term. I was quoting comments made by the QB, Sean Clifford. Perhaps people want everything to be a black/white light switch. Life and football aren't like that. It is a matter of discipline and consistency. I'll lean on the QB to make those observations since none of us is watching practice, let alone making the throws.
Discipline and consistency.....someone should tell our coaches that. Bet they never thought or heard of that. Next thing someone will declare that practice does not make perfect......perfect practice makes perfect. No end to the lessons to be learned.....
 
Discipline and consistency.....someone should tell our coaches that. Bet they never thought or heard of that. Next thing someone will declare that practice does not make perfect......perfect practice makes perfect. No end to the lessons to be learned.....
so you are suggesting all coaches are the same? Interesting. I wonder why some win consistently and are paid big dollars. I wonder why Franklin fired his first OC, Donovan. To you, must all be a big waste of time.
 
so you are suggesting all coaches are the same? Interesting.
Certainly some coaches are better than others. However, there is one constant. When a coach reaches the level of Division One, he forgets more football in the hours that he sleeps than most posters here will be able to accumulate in their lifetime. If we had a thread about brain surgery, the faithful here would be critiquing the surgeons.
 
I like Ciarrocca but I think you are putting him up on too high of a pedestal, at least this year given everything that is going on. The principles his offense is based on are very different than what Joe Moorhead's are. The early schedule is unforgiving and not friendly to making adjustments on the fly if something he installed isn't working. At the end of the day, I think he plays it safe and doesn't over-commit to changing the offense and it looks a lot like last year.

Personally, I doubt he has a better football mind than Moorhead. His impact on the game has been pretty big. He doesn't have a specific scheme but rather a foundation of principles that are mixed and matched to fit the talent on hand. Look what Moorhead disciple Joe Brady did at LSU which was install the offense Moorhead wanted to run in 2016 with Christian Hackenberg. Hack left early, he adjusted. It took five games for JoeMo to figure out what he could and couldn't do and we were off.
How did Joe Mo do at miss st?
 
Certainly some coaches are better than others. However, there is one constant. When a coach reaches the level of Division One, he forgets more football in the hours that he sleeps than most posters here will be able to accumulate in their lifetime. If we had a thread about brain surgery, the faithful here would be critiquing the surgeons.
I have no idea where you are going with this.

I was commenting on various quotes I've read from both the QB and various WRs about the new OC's obsession with precise route running. Obviously, their comments mean that he is more focused on this than previous coaches. Perhaps the previous coaches were more interested in a WR doing whatever they needed in route to get open. This coach believes that you run the route to get open. I am not saying one is right or the other is wrong. I am suggesting that whatever the coaches did in the last few years hasn't worked out because we've had a lot of highly rated WRs that didn't develop. this coach's plan is clearly different than the previous one and we'll see how that works out.
 
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Just curious, for what purpose would a receiver run a route other than to get open (unless its a route designed as a "pick")?
 
I have no idea where you are going with this.

I'll tell you where it seemingly goes every time: he's a former coach; former/maybe even current AD. He's forgotten more than 98% of the board and he never even coached at the level of the people we dare discuss and criticize.

So instead of ever offering insight, he's just going to harpoon what you say and pretend you don't have the right to be here discussing football.
 
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I've explained that second point before. Coach Traut's line at BC comprised of players significantly lower rated as recruits than our OL room delivered the #3 rusher in the nation last year, a top 15 sack allowed rate (against PSU's #108 I think), and all 5 OL starters earned All-ACC honors as 1st team through honorable mention. There is a legitimate reason to believe that our OL will improve significantly.

I think it's hard to say. If we keep elements of the offense where it's a RPO and the OL don't know if it is a pass or run they will still looks bad. Boston College I believe was a more traditional run based offense. The OL knew if it was a run or pass and they knew if the were pro pass or were firing off the line on a running play.
Lets face facts: outside of KJ, we've had a ton of highly recruited WRs come in and simply not play to expectations. When that happens directionally, you've got to start wondering what is wrong with their development and coaching.

With less quality athletes, Minny put together a great passing attack last year. Against us, they ran a really great situational passing attack where they ran to the spot when we blitzed. They also ran slants in front of our S. And when our S moved up to cut off the slant, they ran a slant/out behind the CB to expose our pass D. These routs were situational depending upon the PSU D (based on LB and S coverage). Whatever we did, they reacted and were successful.

In the OP, it is stated that the WR are being DRILLED to run precise routes. You run three steps and cut; not two and not four...three. Why is this important? The QB has to know what the WR is going to do so he can release the ball while the WR cuts so that ball arrives in a place the WR will be in the second. If this hasn't be being done in the recent past, no wonder our highly recruited WR's haven't panned out. This is passing game fundamentals.

Our offense has looked decent with 1 OC in CJF's tenure at PSU. MoJo was a seasoned OC and had complete control of the offense and play calling. The 2 younger guys sucked. Part because I believe they were not all that good, part CJF sticking his nose into the offensive scheme and play calling. Keep Franklin as far as you can from our offense. Hopefully our new seasoned OC will have complete control of this years offense.
 
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Does anyone else see what I see so far? This guy is unlike any other coach I have seen in the Franklin era, including Moorhead. He is an elite coach who is about more than just a system. I really am looking forward to seeing how this unit evolves under him, and for some reason I feel like something special is going to happen.

Hope you are correct.

But where did you SEE all that, with no practices open to the media, no games played, .... ?
 
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I'll tell you where it seemingly goes every time: he's a former coach; former/maybe even current AD. He's forgotten more than 98% of the board and he never even coached at the level of the people we dare discuss and criticize.

So instead of ever offering insight, he's just going to harpoon what you say and pretend you don't have the right to be here discussing football.
Please don't feel like you don't have the right to criticize.....it's an incredible source of amusement and entertainment for me.
 
I think it's hard to say. If we keep elements of the offense where it's a RPO and the OL don't know if it is a pass or run they will still looks bad. Boston College I believe was a more traditional run based offense. The OL knew if it was a run or pass and they knew if the were pro pass or were firing off the line on a running play.


Our offense has looked decent with 1 OC in CJF's tenure at PSU. MoJo was a seasoned OC and had complete control of the offense and play calling. The 2 younger guys sucked. Part because I believe they were not all that good, part CJF sticking his nose into the offensive scheme and play calling. Keep Franklin as far as you can from our offense. Hopefully our new seasoned OC will have complete control of this years offense.
Once again, in an RPO, every single play is treated as a run from a blocking perspective.
 
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JoMo's offense was innovative when he came to PSU. The problem was that after a year all of the B1G teams learned how to defend it like crashing the weak side for tackles at the mesh point. Unfortunately he didn't really have many effective adjustments. Defensive game plans followed him to MSU.

We have a similar situation on D. Our game plan is to take away the run and rush the qb with bend but don't break in the secondary. That leaves us vulnerable to screens. It also means an accurate qb will pick us apart in the short passing game. Really good qbs with an at least average OL to protect them have career days.
 
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JoMo's offense was innovative when he came to PSU. The problem was that after a year all of the B1G teams learned how to defend it like crashing the weak side for tackles at the mesh point. Unfortunately he didn't really have many effective adjustments. Defensive game plans followed him to MSU.

The problem you are talking about wasn't with the scheme but rather the talent which JoeMo ran into at the other MSU. QB talent was our ceiling in 16 and 17. JoeMo undoing at the other MSU hit when Stevens got hurt given the lack of talent on teh roster.
 
I think it's hard to say. If we keep elements of the offense where it's a RPO and the OL don't know if it is a pass or run they will still looks bad. Boston College I believe was a more traditional run based offense. The OL knew if it was a run or pass and they knew if the were pro pass or were firing off the line on a running play.


Our offense has looked decent with 1 OC in CJF's tenure at PSU. MoJo was a seasoned OC and had complete control of the offense and play calling. The 2 younger guys sucked. Part because I believe they were not all that good, part CJF sticking his nose into the offensive scheme and play calling. Keep Franklin as far as you can from our offense. Hopefully our new seasoned OC will have complete control of this years offense.
and please keep JF from calling any Special Team..............trick plays. My fav was when he called a fake punt run to the left when 5 defenders happened to be lined up there. See Indiana. Oh, and every special team play against Kentucky in the Bowl disaster, oops, game.. Yikes.
 
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and please keep JF from calling any Special Team..............trick plays. My fav was when he called a fake punt run to the left when 5 defenders happened to be lined up there. See Indiana. Oh, and every special team play against Kentucky in the Bowl disaster, oops, game.. Yikes.
"I like Franklin....but....keep him away from special teams....keep him away from the O and D and he's not doing a very good job recruiting this year........did I mention his time management problem...but I like him.....I expect us to be elite...."
 

The Kirk Ciarrocca Experience

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I have no idea where you are going with this.

I was commenting on various quotes I've read from both the QB and various WRs about the new OC's obsession with precise route running. Obviously, their comments mean that he is more focused on this than previous coaches. Perhaps the previous coaches were more interested in a WR doing whatever they needed in route to get open. This coach believes that you run the route to get open. I am not saying one is right or the other is wrong. I am suggesting that whatever the coaches did in the last few years hasn't worked out because we've had a lot of highly rated WRs that didn't develop. this coach's plan is clearly different than the previous one and we'll see how that works out.
We have gone through two receiver coaches in two years, obviously there was a problem. hopefully problem solved.
 
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Does anyone else see what I see so far? This guy is unlike any other coach I have seen in the Franklin era, including Moorhead. He is an elite coach who is about more than just a system. I really am looking forward to seeing how this unit evolves under him, and for some reason I feel like something special is going to happen.
Hopefully he had a few conversations with Pry regarding how he shredded our secondary last year.
 
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To your second point, I’ve been trying to understand why people think this way.

For me its the work he did at BC and getting a bunch of 2 and 3* recruits to be All ACC.
And, IMO, Limegrover reached his ceiling. He did some good work but more needed to be done and I think will be done.
 
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For me its the work he did at BC and getting a bunch of 2 and 3* recruits to be All ACC.
And, IMO, Limegrover reached his ceiling. He did some good work but more needed to be done and I think will be done.
do you know how they pick all ACC? TIA
 
We have gone through two receiver coaches in two years, obviously there was a problem. hopefully problem solved.

And our current receivers coach hasn't lasted more than 2 years at any previous coaching gig. Stubblefield has been at 11 different schools in 13 years of coaching and has had some stumbles on the recruiting trail for us. I'm hoping for the best, but Miami fans weren't disappointed when he left to come here - sort of how most PSU fans felt when Rahne went to ODU. I don't think the problem is going to be solved this year.
 
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RE: Ciarrocca vs. PSU D last year, I am still torn on that, because our pass D looked foolish on a number of occasions, not just last year, but back through at least 2016. Just off the top of my head - OSU multiple times, Mich last year, NE the last game a couple years ago when they were abysmal (we won but they made it close at the end),Iowa at the Beav two years ago, Minny last year, maybe even App State a couple years ago. USC, Memphis last year in bowls. Those games were all either lost or closer than they should have been wins due to poor pass D. I don't think anybody has ever answered if those performances were due to lack of pressure on the QB, poor DB play, poor scheme or all of the above. IMO, Ciarrocca did what every other OC did against us.

Pretty much agree. I doubt many other will agree with me but I think this is an important year for Both Pry and Smith.
For all the crap the Offense took, RR especially, the defense was equally inept at times.
 
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The Kirk Ciarrocca Experience, Part 2

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We Dug Through the Vault and Dusted Off Some 2016 Western Michigan Tape Looking for More Clues To What Kirk Ciarrocca Might Bring to Penn State. Are You Ready for Some #MACtion?!?

 
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