Batting penalty...

[Madsol]

First off, I'll give the officials the benefit of the doubt and say they made the right call. But that rule needs changed. Proposed rule #1: give the officials discretion to determine if the batting aided the batting team to avoid an Oakland Raiders-San Diego Chargers outcome. OR Proposed rule #2: the batting invalidates the fumble recovery but otherwise there is no additional penalty. So it would have been Michigan ball at the spot where the ball was going out of bounds.

As it is, the penalty is too extreme. No way should Michigan have been rewarded with a first down. Rule needs changed.

 

[Limestoner]

Correct. It should have been Michigan’s ball at the spot of the batting. The penalty in top of it is ridiculous.

 

[bvillebaron]

First off, I'll give the officials the benefit of the doubt and say they made the right call. But that rule needs changed. Proposed rule #1: give the officials discretion to determine if the batting aided the batting team to avoid an Oakland Raiders-San Diego Chargers outcome. OR Proposed rule #2: the batting invalidates the fumble recovery but otherwise there is no additional penalty. So it would have been Michigan ball at the spot where the ball was going out of bounds.

As it is, the penalty is too extreme. No way should Michigan have been rewarded with a first down. Rule needs changed.

I agree 100%. Why should the defense be penalized for making a good play. Worse yet Michigan was awarded a 1st down when at most it should be 10 yards from the spot of the foul. Total nonsense. Fortunately, this time the defense came up big and the offense ran the 4 minute drill to perfection. I have been a frequent critic of Pry, but I tip my hat to him today.

 

[Lion84]

But you can bat a punt back when it goes over the end line and it’s not a penalty.

 

[blion72]

First off, I'll give the officials the benefit of the doubt and say they made the right call. But that rule needs changed. Proposed rule #1: give the officials discretion to determine if the batting aided the batting team to avoid an Oakland Raiders-San Diego Chargers outcome. OR Proposed rule #2: the batting invalidates the fumble recovery but otherwise there is no additional penalty. So it would have been Michigan ball at the spot where the ball was going out of bounds.

As it is, the penalty is too extreme. No way should Michigan have been rewarded with a first down. Rule needs changed.

I think the rule was created to fend against the OFF doing something like the Raiders play. I have only seen that called two other times, and it was against the OFF tying to get a FD. I have seen many fumbles where ball is hit by a DEF player and the ball went forward for the DEF, and it was either recovered or advanced by DEF with no penalty. in those cases i have never seen the fumble turned over.

in your #2, it would have been 4th and 15 for UMich.

 

[YYZ86]

I thought you had to have possession of the ball for that rule to occur. Learn something every week.

 

[Erial_Lion]

I need to look at a rule book, but I’m almost positive that the bat has to be forward to be a penalty. Thought it was a tough call (unless I’m wrong).

 

[CDLionFL]

I need to look at a rule book, but I’m almost positive that the bat has to be forward to be a penalty. Thought it was a tough call (unless I’m wrong).

Here ya go...

Batting a Loose Ball ARTICLE 1. a. While a pass is in flight, only a player who is eligible to touch the ball may bat it in any direction (Exception: Rule 9-4-2). b. Any player may block a scrimmage kick in the field of play or the end zone. c. No player shall bat other loose balls forward in the field of play or in any direction if the ball is in the end zone

 

[PSU20]

Remember when Tyrell Sales batted the fumble big time down the field against the Buckeyes at the Shoe in 2008, and Bowman made the recovery, which would never happened if the ball wasn't batted. No penalty called that time.

 

[bvillebaron]

Here ya go...

Batting a Loose Ball ARTICLE 1. a. While a pass is in flight, only a player who is eligible to touch the ball may bat it in any direction (Exception: Rule 9-4-2). b. Any player may block a scrimmage kick in the field of play or the end zone. c. No player shall bat other loose balls forward in the field of play or in any direction if the ball is in the end zone

Okay but does the rule also say it results in an automatic first down for the offense? Just asking.

 

[psuguy43]

Okay but does the rule also say it results in an automatic first down for the offense? Just asking.

No, only 10 yard penalty. Batting the ball appears over 30 times in the college football referee manual, so it appears beyond that short excerpt. However, nowhere in any of those times does it reference anything about a first down. The refs screwed up, it sounds like one of those rare calls that they are not experienced in calling since it is so rare, that they called it incorrectly. Luckily, it did not cost us this time

 

[CDLionFL]

Okay but does the rule also say it results in an automatic first down for the offense? Just asking.

It wasn't an automatic first down. Because it was a loose ball (as the referee explained), the penalty is 10 yards from the previous spot. THAT'S why it was a first down. I agree with @Madsol saying that it should be from the spot of the foul and not the previous spot.

 

[Ceasar]

The other thing about that play, while I don't disagree that Toney batted the ball "forward", he actually was just trying to keep in the field of play and ensure it did not go out of bounds. So l agree with the poster above who said this rule cries out for change. If that play impacted the outcome it would have been a travesty.

 

[JustinTyme]

One could argue that the ball was batted mostly sideways moreso than forward. The intent was to prevent it from going out of bounds, not to move it down the field. I seriously doubt that the intent of the rule is to prevent a defensive player from keeping a fumble inbounds.

 

[Big 0]

I have only seen this penalty called on offense where the bat was an attempt to advance the ball.

Chalk this one up to the list of questionable to downright egregious calls against Penn State in the PSU-UM saga of games. These calls in the series are the reasons why there is instant replay in CFB.

I can’t believe there wasn’t even an attempt to do a replay review. One could certainly make a case that Toney was attempting to recover and hit the ball because he was off balance and out of control. That should have been a consideration. But just another typical Referine call in favor of Me-cheat-agin.

 

[Erial_Lion]

I have only seen this penalty called on offense where the bat was an attempt to advance the ball.

Chalk this one up to the list of questionable to downright egregious calls against Penn State in the PSU-UM saga of games. These calls in the series are the reasons why there is instant replay in CFB.

I can’t believe there wasn’t even an attempt to do a replay review. One could certainly make a case that Toney was attempting to recover and hit the ball because he was off balance and out of control. That should have been a consideration. But just another typical Referine call in favor of Me-cheat-agin.

He clearly batted it with no attempt to recover it. And there certainly wasn’t enough there to say it didn’t go forward. Nothing to review.

 

[KnightSlayer]

First off, I'll give the officials the benefit of the doubt and say they made the right call. But that rule needs changed. Proposed rule #1: give the officials discretion to determine if the batting aided the batting team to avoid an Oakland Raiders-San Diego Chargers outcome. OR Proposed rule #2: the batting invalidates the fumble recovery but otherwise there is no additional penalty. So it would have been Michigan ball at the spot where the ball was going out of bounds.

As it is, the penalty is too extreme. No way should Michigan have been rewarded with a first down. Rule needs changed.

Batting the ball to try and keep the ball in the field of play should not be a penalty. If the ball happens to be batted forward and the defense recovers, they get the ball at the spot where it was batted. This should be treated like the punt team batting the ball to keep it out of the endzone.

 

[Pardlion]

He clearly batted it with no attempt to recover it. And there certainly wasn’t enough there to say it didn’t go forward. Nothing to review.

It didn’t go forward. We never had possession, so forward was the direction of Michigan’s travel. It was batted backwards.

 

[83wuzme]

Okay but does the rule also say it results in an automatic first down for the offense? Just asking.

Only if you are Michigan playing at home with BIG officials.
You missed that clause.

 

[Erial_Lion]

It didn’t go forward. We never had possession, so forward was the direction of Michigan’s travel. It was batted backwards.

That’s not correct...forward means towards the end zone you are trying to score in. Which team has possession is meaningless in establishing which direction is forward.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Only if you are Michigan playing at home with BIG officials.
You missed that clause.

As someone else pointed out, it isn’t an automatic first down, nor was it given as an automatic first down.

 

[CDLionFL]

Kind of amazing that you can cite the rule and explain the rule and there will still be people who think that it's a Big Ten conspiracy.

 

[Big 0]

Kind of amazing that you can cite the rule and explain the rule and there will still be people who think that it's a Big Ten conspiracy.

Technically it was correct. But how many times have you seen defenders attempting to recover a fumble bat the ball and no penalty called? This is the first time in watching football since 1964 that I have seen this called on a defensive player. Offensive players, yes, in an attempt to advance a fumble.

 

[ryoder1]

That was a ridiculous play. Why in the word are you penalizing the defense that harshly. That play was treated practically like a roughing the passer in terms of net yardage gain for scUM. They should allow the batting of the ball forward (toward the offensive end zone) but then mark it back where it was batted. They should not penalize the defensive team if they do not want to give the ball to the defense.

 

[sluggo72]

I always thought PSU V OSU circa 2009? That Rubin got away with an illegal bat. He has his fist in a ball and punched at it. But I was happy w the outcome

 

[africamurphy]

I have only seen this penalty called on offense where the bat was an attempt to advance the ball.

Chalk this one up to the list of questionable to downright egregious calls against Penn State in the PSU-UM saga of games. These calls in the series are the reasons why there is instant replay in CFB.

I can’t believe there wasn’t even an attempt to do a replay review. One could certainly make a case that Toney was attempting to recover and hit the ball because he was off balance and out of control. That should have been a consideration. But just another typical Referine call in favor of Me-cheat-agin.

If it weren't for replay, UM would have had a scoop and score in the 1st quarter...and I argue, would have cost us the game. Not sure if we come back from that change of fortunes.

 

[Ranger Dan]

It’s a dumb penalty. Batting should be permitted to keep the ball in bounds or even to prevent the other team from recovering it. To prevent teams taking advantage from the batting, you make the rule be the team who recovers the ball gets it at the spot of the fumble or the recovery, whichever is furthest from goal line.

 

[Madsol]

Batting the ball to try and keep the ball in the field of play should not be a penalty. If the ball happens to be batted forward and the defense recovers, they get the ball at the spot where it was batted. This should be treated like the punt team batting the ball to keep it out of the endzone.

Yes.

 

[Pennoyer]

It didn’t go forward. We never had possession, so forward was the direction of Michigan’s travel. It was batted backwards.

This times 1000. I cannot believe the announcers missed that point. 100% the wrong call. Guarantee it comes up in weekly ref review this week. Also guarantee Big10 doesn’t say a word publicly about it.

 

[Erial_Lion]

This times 1000. I cannot believe the announcers missed that point. 100% the wrong call. Guarantee it comes up in weekly ref review this week. Also guarantee Big10 doesn’t say a word publicly about it.

Do you realize which direction “forward” is? It certainly wasn’t a bad call. It might have been ticky-tack, but it wasn’t wrong, and the ball ultimately went about 3-4 yards forward.

 

[83wuzme]

Thankfully, it didn’t decide the game.

 

[LafayetteBear]

But you can bat a punt back when it goes over the end line and it’s not a penalty.

THIS ^^^^.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Here ya go...

Batting a Loose Ball ARTICLE 1. a. While a pass is in flight, only a player who is eligible to touch the ball may bat it in any direction (Exception: Rule 9-4-2). b. Any player may block a scrimmage kick in the field of play or the end zone. c. No player shall bat other loose balls forward in the field of play or in any direction if the ball is in the end zone

So why was a penalty called here? If I recall correctly, Toney did not bat the ball forward, just sideways to keep it in play for a fumble recovery. The ball was in the field of play, NOT the end zone. So, if I am reading the rule correctly, it should not have been a penalty. ??

 

[Erial_Lion]

So why was a penalty called here. If I recall correctly, Toney did not bat the ball forward, just sideways to keep it in play for a fumble recovery. The ball was in the field of play, NOT the end zone. So, if I am reading the rule correctly, it should not have been a penalty. ??

It went about 4 yards forward and about 2-3 yards sideways. Tough call and he wasn’t necessarily trying to bat it forward, just doing whatever he could to keep it in play.

 

[blion72]

I always thought PSU V OSU circa 2009? That Rubin got away with an illegal bat. He has his fist in a ball and punched at it. But I was happy w the outcome

I remember that play. Also, I see that happen often in games.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Correct. It should have been Michigan’s ball at the spot of the batting. The penalty in top of it is ridiculous.

I agree with this. No reason to tack on additional yardage.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

we got fortunate in the 2008 Ohio State game because Tyrell Sales batted it but it looked enough like he was just reaching to try to get his hand on it that they didn't flag him. I remember the discussion of it afterwards though

 

[Pennoyer]

last week

 

[Erial_Lion]

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last week

That should have been a penalty, but they’ll give guys the benefit of the doubt if it’s not clear...you even saw Franklin coaching him up after the play telling him to make it look like he’s going for it and not just batting it.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Change the rules to say only the offense is penalized for doing so since it has control of the ball and can intentionally fumble it and then bat it. But the D is just reacting and cannot plan this ahead of time. Don’t punish a player or team for reacting well.