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Anybody watching Serena go off?!

If we just had ONE man who could make a grand slam final, this whole Serena thing wouldn't be such a big deal. Andy Roddick, 2009. Basically it will be 10 years since an American man has made a grand slam final.

Some of that is the historical greatness of Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, and a few others, but some of that is that we no longer can develop American men singles players in our tennis system.

Cue the whole thing about how our athletes all choose different sports if you like, but how does that explain Stan Smith, Arthur Ashe, Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe, Pete Sampras, Jim Courier, Mal Washington, Michael Chang, Andre Agassi, and Andy Roddick? Football and Baseball and Basketball were more popular than tennis then, too.

Isner, bless his heart, has done all he can humanly do and given it his all, but he's Tim Henman. We need an Andy Murray to replace his Tim Henman.
Tennis is expensive to develop. In other sports, schools and teams carry much of the burden of coaching and travel expenses. In tennis it’s on the individual and their families.
And tennis players don’t get a salary, they have to play and win to get paid. An an injury can mean no income for players just starting out.
And they have to pay for their own medical care, physical trainers etc.
If they play baseball, even the minor leagues will give them a steady salary, coaching, trainers, weight rooms, and medical care when they are injured and pay for their travel.
I believe the USTA helps young players a little with the expenses, but not much.
 
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I think people who feel it’s okay to yell at refs, get in their face, scream at them like a 3yr-old, throw things at them, wait at their car after the game, knowingly break the rules then complain to the ref’s face about it, should try officiating a sporting event sometime. I officiate in my area and we are losing officials at a pretty quick rate. Keep yelling, and when refs quit there won’t be many games left.

Another reason my favorite sport is golf. Referees are required only at the highest levels, and are usually involved only when asked to be involved by the players. What a great game.

In golf the temper-tantrum people are usually weeded out before they can get to an elite level. Lack of composure will always hurt performance. More so in a game that is largely cerebral.

I was so turned off by the Serena Williams thing that I could not watch it. She went beyond hot-headed and turned the affair into something personal.

On the other hand, and I don't know if this is because he is male, but John McEnroe in his day was so outrageous that his tantrums were at times humorous. To be entertained in this way requires a certain level of detachment from the game itself, which isn't hard for me since I don't play tennis.
 
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You can win trophies but you can't win class.....you either have class or you don't. And Serena has no class.
 
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This is really good insight (fellow tennis player here) but nearly every professional tennis player/authority/broadcaster I follow on social media disagrees with you.

I’d add that what Serena has done since having her daughter is pretty remarkable. She does need to learn to keep quiet, and I agree she probably loses the match anyway, but this chair is a clown.
I think the other players are agreeing with her because a) players tend to stick together and b) it is politically incorrect to criticize Serena. (b) is also why the media is reacting the way it is (that and clicks)

Also, that official is considered to be on the best in the world.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis...y-to-umpire-carlos-ramos-20180909-p502q2.html
 
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Another reason my favorite sport is golf. Referees are required only at the highest levels, and are usually involved only when asked to be involved by the players. .
To be fair, most of tennis has no officials. All the way through college (and even most satellite events) have players calling their own lines.
 
I think the other players are agreeing with her because a) players tend to stick together and b) it is politically incorrect to criticize Serena. (b) is also why the media is reacting the way it is (that and clicks)

Also, that official is considered to be on the best in the world.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis...y-to-umpire-carlos-ramos-20180909-p502q2.html

The ‘coaching’ call was bush league since we know all coaches do this (if they’re going to keep the dumb rule, the first strike should be to oust the coach from the court - not penalize a player who probably isn’t even looking at the coach) and the game penalty for ‘berating’ an ump was incredulous given what other tennis stars have said to chair umps without penalty.

Even on the story you linked that ump said he penalized McEnroe after a ‘string of obscenities’ - Serena called this clown a thief, and that’s all it took. Sorry - bush league,
and he shouldn’t see a Grand Slam final again.
 
The ‘coaching’ call was bush league since we know all coaches do this (if they’re going to keep the dumb rule, the first strike should be to oust the coach from the court - not penalize a player who probably isn’t even looking at the coach) and the game penalty for ‘berating’ an ump was incredulous given what other tennis stars have said to chair umps without penalty.

Even on the story you linked that ump said he penalized McEnroe after a ‘string of obscenities’ - Serena called this clown a thief, and that’s all it took. Sorry - bush league,
and he shouldn’t see a Grand Slam final again.
Disagree. He did what he had to do to retain control of the match.

Agree that the coaching rule needs to be changed, but "everybody does it" isn't an excuse when you are breaking the rules (especially when you grandstand and say "I would never cheat" and then your coach turns around and says "Yep, we were cheating.")
 
Disagree. He did what he had to do to retain control of the match.

Agree that the coaching rule needs to be changed, but "everybody does it" isn't an excuse when you are breaking the rules (especially when you grandstand and say "I would never cheat" and then your coach turns around and says "Yep, we were cheating.")
If a coach sits in the audience and holds up hand written signs and the player doesn’t see it, is the player cheating or the coach? At this point in her career, I don’t think she needs coaching during a match. And when others are doing it in the same tournament and not getting called for it, it is an excuse.
 
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Disagree. He did what he had to do to retain control of the match.

Agree that the coaching rule needs to be changed, but "everybody does it" isn't an excuse when you are breaking the rules (especially when you grandstand and say "I would never cheat" and then your coach turns around and says "Yep, we were cheating.")

So, one of the best chair umps in the world has to resort to a penalty for being called a 'thief' by Williams to 'retain control of the match', but can't be bothered to penalize dozens of male players for saying worse to him? OK.

 
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If a coach sits in the audience and holds up hand written signs and the player doesn’t see it, is the player cheating or the coach? At this point in her career, I don’t think she needs coaching during a match. And when others are doing it in the same tournament and not getting called for it, it is an excuse.

There is a reason many here are against Williams, and it has nothing to do with her on court antics.
 
John McEnroe caught a lot of heat for his antics back in the day .
As for any dislike of Williams , are that many people here that invested in watching tennis that people know why they might display some negativity other than it’s a big sports news story?
 
Should people be mad at this official for enforcing the rules, or at McEnroe’s officials for ignoring the rules?
 
Another reason my favorite sport is golf. Referees are required only at the highest levels, and are usually involved only when asked to be involved by the players. What a great game.

In golf the temper-tantrum people are usually weeded out before they can get to an elite level. Lack of composure will always hurt performance. More so in a game that is largely cerebral.

I was so turned off by the Serena Williams thing that I could not watch it. She went beyond hot-headed and turned the affair into something personal.

On the other hand, and I don't know if this is because he is male, but John McEnroe in his day was so outrageous that his tantrums were at times humorous. To be entertained in this way requires a certain level of detachment from the game itself, which isn't hard for me since I don't play tennis.


McEnroe played in the 70s and 80s. The sport of tennis evolved, just like the NFL and NBA. In Baseball you can't argue a strike or ball without being ejected. Think about it.

LdN
 
The race card. Nice. Figured you'd pull that out at some point.

LdN

Yeah, that's what I meant. You should get out of your ivory tower more often - you're easily the most daft and detached poster here. Maybe put me on ignore, since it seems you have all of reality on it already.
 
So, one of the best chair umps in the world has to resort to a penalty for being called a 'thief' by Williams to 'retain control of the match', but can't be bothered to penalize dozens of male players for saying worse to him? OK.

The same umpire penalized Nadal and Novak this year. Pretending that he didn't is ridiculous. He also penalized Andy Murray at the last Olympics for calling him "stupid" during an argument (which is actually not as bad a calling some one a thief, because you could be an honest, stupid official. Thief implies corruption.)
 
Glad he’s a mind reader. Personally I don’t care enough about tennis to look into this story .

No, I just follow tennis and have for about 30 years. Maybe I should be like you and just randomly comment about sh*t 'I don't care enough about?'
 
Yeah, that's what I meant. You should get out of your ivory tower more often - you're easily the most daft and detached poster here. Maybe put me on ignore, since it seems you have all of reality on it already.
There can be plenty of reasons people can have various positions on events that do not include race.
You’re the deluded one who believes he can read minds.
One fellow here claims to be a high level tennis player and gave a perfectly plausible explanation for these events ,
 
The same umpire penalized Nadal and Novak this year. Pretending that he didn't is ridiculous. He also penalized Andy Murray at the last Olympics for calling him "stupid" during an argument (which is actually not as bad a calling some one a thief, because you could be an honest, stupid official. Thief implies corruption.)

The issue is consistency. In a GS final, I would expect more restraint from a seasoned ump - him allowing that to snowball is something I've never seen before.
 
No, I just follow tennis and have for about 30 years. Maybe I should be like you and just randomly comment about sh*t 'I don't care enough about?'
Try, it, I’m commenting on making it a racial issue when there are other explanations? Things that were explained to you by an actual tennis player and fan?
Try talking off your race card glasses and give it a view. And while I don’t actively follow tennis now I did watch it back in the days of Connor, Borg, McEnroe etc.
And I do recall McEnroe catching flack for his behavior.
By claiming any negative criticism is due to a racial bias you’re saying certain people cannot do wrong . That they’re above criticism.
I don’t look at it that way.
 
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Yeah, that's what I meant. You should get out of your ivory tower more often - you're easily the most daft and detached poster here. Maybe put me on ignore, since it seems you have all of reality on it already.

I have noone on ignore. Daft and detached, that's a new one.

LdN
 
There can be plenty of reasons people can have various positions on events that do not include race.
You’re the deluded one who believes he can read minds.
One fellow here claims to be a high level tennis player and gave a perfectly plausible explanation for these events ,

Yes, that is true. And I was not implying 'race' - but, that didn't stop Ivory Tower LDN from inferring as much (his posts here have been reduced to petty comments about race/politics - mostly to those he disagrees with - because he has zero else to add).

Look - being a high level tennis player has nothing to do with offering an opinion on what happened. Billy Jean King, Andy Roddick, and several other VERY HIGH level tennis players have said they've never seen anything like that, and after watching tennis for more than 30 years I can say the same. It's a shame that it happened, and the ump is the reason for it. If he just lets the match go as is, SW probably loses. The coaching call was ridiculous because it's subjective and during a critical time in a GS final. Also, SW has won 23 Grand Slams - she's probably one of the top three players of all time (M/W). Maybe her coach had something insightful to say, but I doubt it, and I doubt she was looking at him when he tried to signal her.
 
I have some strong feelings about this and need to chime in.

By way of background, I have played competitive tennis since I was a kid. My over 40 USTA team is playing in the Sectional championship (one step from National Championship) next weekend. I probably know more about this than most casual fans.

First, you have to understand the warning/penalty structure (many fans do not). The system goes: warning, point penalty, game penalty, match penalty (i.e. foreit). The latter is VERY rate but if does happen (see Jeff Tarango, Wimbledon 1995, MacEnroe at the Aussie Open, etc).

As a player, if you know that you’ve gotten a warning, you HAVE to walk on eggshells. Maybe you give the chair a piece of your mind if you think it will somehow help you later (although these days with replay, the chair is generally less important, so this is a poor strategy). But on this stage you cannot do anything dumb.

Serena got the first violation (a warning, with no penalty) for coaching. This rule needs to be re-examined, but as written, players cannot receive any coaching (including hand signals) during a match. (an aside: my opinion is that players should be able to receive coaching between sets, but coaches should be off court (watching on TV) during the match). It is widely known that coaches signal players during matches and usually nothing is done. Her coach admitted to coaching her, meaning that as the rule is written, the first violation (warning) was legit. I have no idea why the chair decided to issue a warning for this (maybe the hand signals were particularly egregious; maybe this is a pet peeve of his; I don’t know). BUT (and this is a big BUT), his issuing this warning had ZERO impact on the match. There was no penalty associated with this warning.

Serena seemed to come somewhat unhinged after this because she was accused of cheating. Her coach admitted to cheating, so I really don’t know why she was so offended by this. It’s obviously not plausible that she has not idea her coach is giving her signals. So she’s full of crap with the whole “I’d rather lose than cheat” bit.

But again, this warning had ZERO impact on the match.

At this point, she had to realize that she had to be on her best behavior because her next violation would result in a point penalty. She smashed a racket. Perhaps if she hadn’t already gotten a violation, or perhaps if this was an early round match, maybe she gets away with that. But from the chair umpires perspective, this is disrespectful to him. She should know she’s on this ice and she smashed a racket. So she SHOULD have seen that violation coming, which resulted in a point penalty.

Realistically, that point penalty probably had very little impact on the match. But she wouldn’t let it go and decided it would be a good idea to verbally harass the chair on the next changeover. Why? After you get a point penalty, you have to realize that the ref is not kidding around (right or wrong) and you need to basically ignore him/her for the rest of the match. You need to be on your best behavior. She was ranting about being owed an apology and wouldn’t let it drop.

The baseball equivalent of this is not letting a bad call go and keep talking to the umpire. Even if you don’t swear at him, eventually, if you keep running your mouth you will get tossed. Can you imagine repeatedly telling the home plate umpire that they owe you an apology and not getting tossed? She wouldn’t shut up and (IMHO) didn’t give the chair much option. It was stupid of her to engage him at that time (after two violations).

Some have speculated that Serena didn’t know that the coaching violation was a warning that counted toward a point penalty. If she didn’t, that’s really, really ignorant. But even if she didn’t, as soon as she got the racket abuse point penalty, she knew it. So she needed to STFU at that point. She didn’t. Which means she someone thinks she is bigger than the game. She’s not and the chair put her in her place.

I used to like Serena early in her career. I like her less and less as time goes on. She has had multiple outbursts at the US Open alone (foot fault issue, hindrance issue and this one), for which she was in the wrong in all of them, but somehow tries to make herself the victim. She made things orders of magnitude worse in this instance by trying to make this a gender/sexism issue. She also tried to play the “mom” card by invoking her daughter while arguing with the chair. The issue was she tried to show up the chair and it failed.

She’s an uber talented player, but her ego gets in the way. This was 100% preventable by her. All she has to do is shut her mouth. Although I believe that she loses anyway. Osaka played really, really well. If you want to feel bad for anyone, feel bad for Osaka. Her amazing win is tarnished by Serena’s nonsense.

Curious about your USTA team, at what NTRP level do you and your teammates play? Back in my playing days I was a 4.0, I suppose you guys are all over 5.0's to be in the position you're in.
 
Not shocking. I'm sure everyone tells you exactly what you want to hear all the time. You're very important and smart.

You're the one who interjected the race card, then tried to roll it back, not me.

That's fine, if you want to pretend you didn't but we all know what happened.

It's too bad. Serena was caught cheating. She has an image to uphold, much like Lance did.
Regarding why most people dislike her it's because of Venus who was a nasty nasty person. Serena seems much nicer, but it's apparently gone to her head.

LdN
 
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Bad initial call by the umpire. then Serena escalated it too far from there. They both were wrong. Isn't it that simple.
 
Serena the Classless, being exposed: "NBC Sports Analyst Mary Carillo: At Her Worst, Serena Williams ‘Acts Like a Bully’"
 
You're the one who interjected the race card, then tried to roll it back, not me.

That's fine, if you want to pretend you didn't but we all know what happened.

It's too bad. Serena was caught cheating. She has an image to uphold, much like Lance did.
Regarding why most people dislike her it's because of Venus who was a nasty nasty person. Serena seems much nicer, but it's apparently gone to her head.

LdN

Serena didn't cheat - her coach did. There's a subtle but important difference, and she paid the price - not him. It's still a violation if he signals and she doesn't look at him, which is what happened.

As for race, well, wrong again - my point was it was because she's a woman, and an outspoken one at that. Good on you for trying to race bait though now I guess you'll have something aloof to say about that. Doesn't matter that in recent months the French Open changed their clothing rules so she couldn't wear a 'catsuit' designed to help with recovery after birthing, or that she wasn't granted a seeding at the same tournament despite winning it four times and being ranked #1 at the time she took a leave of absence to give birth to her daughter.
 
Serena didn't cheat - her coach did. There's a subtle but important difference, and she paid the price - not him. It's still a violation if he signals and she doesn't look at him, which is what happened.

As for race, well, wrong again - my point was it was because she's a woman, and an outspoken one at that. Good on you for trying to race bait though now I guess you'll have something aloof to say about that. Doesn't matter that in recent months the French Open changed their clothing rules so she couldn't wear a 'catsuit' designed to help with recovery after birthing, or that she wasn't granted a seeding at the same tournament despite winning it four times and being ranked #1 at the time she took a leave of absence to give birth to her daughter.

Serena was the first woman to have a child and then return to Tennis? IS that why she, and noone else, needs a skin tight outfit and tutus? As if Tennis has never had clothing controversy before and they just picked on her because she's an outspoken woman. what a joke.

She is playing WOMEN'S TENNIS. How the heck does her being a woman affect the umpire? Was she playing a man? Is this sexist racist umpire against minority women above 175lbs but loves asian women (also a minority) below 150lbs?

None of these arguments make sense.

She was losing, she has blown up before for the foot fault and that time it was a woman. I guess that time it was just overt racism.

LdN
 
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Because she acts like an elitist and how dare an upstart outsider kick her ass?

That's a big part of it. She pals around with Beyonce, makes more money than most other athletes, does what she wants, and wins a sh*t ton. Certain folks don't like that.
 
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