Anybody watching Serena go off?!

[PSU2UNC]

McEnroe couldn’t resist - even late in his career. Of course, he played better when he got pissed. Williams doesn’t.

Totally agree that Mac used his outbursts as a tactic. It messed with his opponents and fired himself up. They were calculated (for the most part) not uncontrolled.

Also, most of Mac's outbursts were over line calls. That's almost unheard of today because of replay.

 

[RU31trap]

OP2: Quit digging. You've already excavated a pretty deep hole. You seriously want to propose that men and women compete against each other in tennis, and that Serena is not great because there are plenty of men who can beat her? Bobby Riggs did that decades ago, and he looked foolish even back then.

Bobby Riggs won US National Championship (today's US Open) Champion in 1939 & 1941. He also won Wimbledon in 1939 and played in the French Open finals in 1939. He was the real deal and if it were not for WW2 he would have won at least two more grand slams. Unfortunately, Bobby Riggs was also a degenerate gambler and hustler. He rubbed elbows with very bad people. He owed a significant amount of money to these people ($43,000 in 1972). The whole BJK battle of the sexes was orchestrated perfectly by Riggs. A few month earlier at the age of 54 he systematically dismantled Margaret Court arguably the best female player at the time. Then he promotes this match with Billy Jean King allowing the wise guys to get favorable odds on King and clear his debt. Trust me, he tanked the match to save his life and potentially a family member or two.

 

[Obliviax]

Bobby Riggs won US National Championship (today's US Open) Champion in 1939 & 1941. He also won Wimbledon in 1939 and played in the French Open finals in 1939. He was the real deal and if it were not for WW2 he would have won at least two more grand slams. Unfortunately, Bobby Riggs was also a degenerate gambler and hustler. He rubbed elbows with very bad people. He owed a significant amount of money to these people ($43,000 in 1972). The whole BJK battle of the sexes was orchestrated perfectly by Riggs. A few month earlier at the age of 54 he systematically dismantled Margaret Court arguably the best female player at the time. Then he promotes this match with Billy Jean King allowing the wise guys to get favorable odds on King and clear his debt. Trust me, he tanked the match to save his life and potentially a family member or two.

Interesting...I've read about the match being tanked and the gambling issues. it was "rigged", pardon the pun. People also forget Riggs had to defend the doubles court whereas King had to defend a singles court (not to mention the age difference).

The physicality of the game, and most games, is significantly in favor of men. For example, the fastest serve for women was 136 mph, for men 163. In fact, the 31st fastest mens serve is still 7 mph faster than the fastest woman's serve. In basketball, women only recently began to dunk. In men's ball, Jr High boys have been dunking for decades.

In the end, pro sports isn't sports, it is entertainment. Some people find women's tennis better than men's because men's has turned into a "ace competition" (meaning, its all about serves and little volley except for the french open). Same with BBall in terms of dunking and the art of the game.

In the end, most people pay more money to see men in sports than women and that is why men make more money.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Bobby Riggs won US National Championship (today's US Open) Champion in 1939 & 1941. He also won Wimbledon in 1939 and played in the French Open finals in 1939. He was the real deal and if it were not for WW2 he would have won at least two more grand slams. Unfortunately, Bobby Riggs was also a degenerate gambler and hustler. He rubbed elbows with very bad people. He owed a significant amount of money to these people ($43,000 in 1972). The whole BJK battle of the sexes was orchestrated perfectly by Riggs. A few month earlier at the age of 54 he systematically dismantled Margaret Court arguably the best female player at the time. Then he promotes this match with Billy Jean King allowing the wise guys to get favorable odds on King and clear his debt. Trust me, he tanked the match to save his life and potentially a family member or two.

The movie (Battle of the Sexes) was pretty good I thought. Shed some light on BJK's plight to move women's tennis more mainstream and less novelty, had a bit about her 'coming out' so to speak, and Carrell as Riggs was a real treat. Even if he was a big goofball and likely tanked the match, he played everyone perfectly. They do get into his 'performance enhancing drugs' at the time of the match (likely less steroid and more - um, mind altering?) and how that may have impacted things. And, Elisabeth Shue plays his wife. So, worth seeing .

 

[LionDeNittany]

Interesting...I've read about the match being tanked and the gambling issues. it was "rigged", pardon the pun. People also forget Riggs had to defend the doubles court whereas King had to defend a singles court (not to mention the age difference).

The physicality of the game, and most games, is significantly in favor of men. For example, the fastest serve for women was 136 mph, for men 163. In fact, the 31st fastest mens serve is still 7 mph faster than the fastest woman's serve. In basketball, women only recently began to dunk. In men's ball, Jr High boys have been dunking for decades.

In the end, pro sports isn't sports, it is entertainment. Some people find women's tennis better than men's because men's has turned into a "ace competition" (meaning, its all about serves and little volley except for the french open). Same with BBall in terms of dunking and the art of the game.

In the end, most people pay more money to see men in sports than women and that is why men make more money.

This isn't even a real debate. The top women would be beat by college level men... at worst.

There's a reason they don't play, it's because noone wants to see 6-0 6-0 (6-0)

As I've said many times, in most sports there are two divisions... Women's and "Open".

If a woman can compete she can play on the Knicks, Patriots, Yankees, Devils and likely Wimbledon on the Men's side.

LdN

 

[PSU2UNC]

People also forget Riggs had to defend the doubles court whereas King had to defend a singles court (not to mention the age difference).

Do you have a citation for the doubles court fact? I don't think that was the case. I know he played other matches for money with those rules, but I don't think there were any rule changes for the Battle of the Sexes.

That doesn't mean he couldn't have thrown the match, I just don't think that particular fact is correct.

 

[Obliviax]

This isn't even a real debate. The top women would be beat by college level men... at worst.

There's a reason they don't play, it's because noone wants to see 6-0 6-0 (6-0)

LdN

yeah...suggesting they play is simply a non-starter.....unless you handicap the guy, in some way. Then, its really just a matter of how big of a handicap and your altered the game.

I lost interest in Tennis a long time ago, not sure why. I used to love the players. My favorite was Vitas Garulaitis. Chrissy too but that is only because she was cute (plus she started the two handed backhand). I hate bad sportsmanship so I think I lost it in the McEnroe years when the players got out of hand. I've never gone back. But I respect the players as it is one-on-one with some of the most physically grueling competition there is (five sets of world class competitive tennis without a substantial break?). I have to assume these are some of the most physically fit (mentally too) athletes on the planet.

 

[LionDeNittany]

yeah...suggesting they play is simply a non-starter.....unless you handicap the guy, in some way. Then, its really just a matter of how big of a handicap and your altered the game.

I lost interest in Tennis a long time ago, not sure why. I used to love the players. My favorite was Vitas Garulaitis. Chrissy too but that is only because she was cute (plus she started the two handed backhand). I hate bad sportsmanship so I think I lost it in the McEnroe years when the players got out of hand. I've never gone back. But I respect the players as it is one-on-one with some of the most physically grueling competition there is (five sets of world class competitive tennis without a substantial break?). I have to assume these are some of the most physically fit (mentally too) athletes on the planet.

McEnroe was acting in the end, sort of like a baseball manager does when he goes out and argues a call planning to get thrown out for the fans. It was part of the entertainment but also he was working the Umpire.
Like most sports, Tennis stopped allowing that in the 90s... McEnroe played his last major in 1992.

LdN

 

[Obliviax]

McEnroe was acting in the end, sort of like a manager does when he goes out and argues a call planning to get thrown out for the fans. It was part of the entertainment but also he was working the Umpire.
Like most sports, Tennis stopped allowing that in the 90s... McEnroe played his last major in 1992.

LdN

Yeah...I read that earlier in the thread and it makes sense. But the bottom line is that the umpires let him get away with it. In my mind, if a player raises his or her voice to an umpire, they get a warning. Second time they lose a game. Third time they lose a set. I don't have a problem with a player being frustrated or challenging a ruling. But some of the dialogue hurts the game, IMHO>

 

[Obliviax]

Do you have a citation for the doubles court fact? I don't think that was the case. I know he played other matches for money with those rules, but I don't think there were any rule changes for the Battle of the Sexes.

That doesn't mean he couldn't have thrown the match, I just don't think that particular fact is correct.

Not sure now...I did a quick google search and some say yes and some say no. I'd have to go back to the tapes and don't have the time..sorry. There are some that say there was another match (Chissy and Connors?) that had the doubles and not the age difference.