You've made that assertion several times. It's wrong, but it is heard.
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Zain/Yanni
- Thread starter ringworm2013
- Start date
Dangit, I thought I was done--but jousting is so addictive.You've made that assertion several times. It's wrong, but it is heard.
Another thing I don't like about this is the whole role model thing. People like this sport, in particular because it's so hard, and often enough, not fair. There's a life lesson there that resonates with a lot of people--myself included. Take your lumps, whether you deserve or not--apply passion (as Zain so elquently said in the post quoted above)--keep working. I give Yianni a lot of deference in this afair--but Koll not so. This process tells future competitors you can whine your way out of that dynamic. I don't like it. @js8793, most in "your" camp espouse this sanctimonious deference to fairness--but it just rings a tad bit hollow to me. Let's keep wrestling on the dang mat and out of lawyerly hands (no offense tikk).
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It has nothing to do with wrestling, and everything to do with the USOC's procedures for arbitrating decisions such as this.
Koll and his band of Cornell lawyers followed an established procedure for this protest. Take your concerns to the USOC.
That's a pretty good point. I'm not very tuned in to that machine--but it sounds like a dubious enterprise. I won't absolve Koll of his role in it, however--just because it's legal doesn't make it less slimy.
So Koll was of the opinion that the challenge should not have been accepted according to the rules, thereby costing his wrestler the match. The arbitrator agreed with him after Koll followed the process specified by the USOC, thereby reversing the loss. The process is there for *exactly* this reason.
And Koll is slimy for following the designated process?
I understand both what you are saying, and why probably most people wouldn't agree with me--but I think my answer is still yes. Litigation is always an option--but I admire those that fight the urge to use it more than most others.
#1 - What does a lawyer get when you give him Viagra?
Taller
Taller
#2 - Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 100?
A: Your Honor.
Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50
A: Senator.
A: Your Honor.
Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50
A: Senator.
#3 - Q: Why did God invent lawyers?
A: So that real estate agents would have someone to look down on.
A: So that real estate agents would have someone to look down on.
Last one - Q: What do you call 25 attorneys buried up to their chins in cement?
A: Not enough cement.
A: Not enough cement.
If this didn't happen in the same time period as the Dake BS, I'd be less unimpressed.
The irony of bringing up hands to the face with Yianni when he's set to wrestle Zain, the man who personally inspired the hands to the face rules emphasis. Zain and dean heil are the only two wrestlers in recent memory who single handedly lead to rule changes because of the way they competed.
Do you argue that Taylor had the best year of any Male American? If you do, then that makes you an idiot.
Americans saw it, the world saw it, hopefully you were paying attention too. DT had an EPIC year and fully deserved UWW WOY award. Does this make him the best American? No, but by god he earned that award.
Didn't see this posted yet. For those with access to Flo, Bader interviewed Rob Koll today about the arbitration process and outcome.
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6552238-rob-koll-dishes-on-yiannizain-arbitration
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/6552238-rob-koll-dishes-on-yiannizain-arbitration
Say what? Zain was the receiver of hands to the face. He's literally been slapped numerous times.
I'm sorry, but this might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here. People may like this sport because it's hard, but they certainly don't like it because it's "not fair." What absolute drivel. You might as well live by the motto "Nothing should be better than it is right now!" It's now completely clear that you're just grasping at straws to try to justify an opinion you know isn't right because of your fandom of Zain, which is fine if you admit it. But don't try to couch that homerism in some pseudo-intellectual stuff about how "actually it's better if our sport isn't fair." The lack of ambition and desire for things to be better is completely antithetical to the character of the sport.
I also posted in another forum this.
I'm good with the best wrestler representing the USA. Yianni is other wordly... But I'm not fine with courts making the decidion. This sucks that a court several months later decides the winner. Should have been determined right there ...that day. If it was opposite and Zain petitioned courts...I'd feel the same way. Whatever it takes.....GET the courts out of sports.
Imagine it happening during game 7 of the World Series of a strike 3 call that was actually a ball...or if your Canadian..the last match for the Canadian Curling Championship.
Imagine this...wrestler A wins the National Championship and puts his team ahead by 2 points, which is all it takes to win the Team National Championships. Wrestler B petitions the courts and 2 months later they negate the match for whatever reason (right or wrong). Now we don't have a National Champion at a weight and no team champion yet....2 Months later. Now both wrestlers are now walking around 20 pounds over weight and have to start cutting. Since both wrestler A and wrestler B need time heal (weight issue) and both want to wrestle in Spain as a warm up....we set the wrestle off for mid August. For the March National Championship team and individual at that weight. Sounds AWESOME!
I'm good with the best wrestler representing the USA. Yianni is other wordly... But I'm not fine with courts making the decidion. This sucks that a court several months later decides the winner. Should have been determined right there ...that day. If it was opposite and Zain petitioned courts...I'd feel the same way. Whatever it takes.....GET the courts out of sports.
Imagine it happening during game 7 of the World Series of a strike 3 call that was actually a ball...or if your Canadian..the last match for the Canadian Curling Championship.
Imagine this...wrestler A wins the National Championship and puts his team ahead by 2 points, which is all it takes to win the Team National Championships. Wrestler B petitions the courts and 2 months later they negate the match for whatever reason (right or wrong). Now we don't have a National Champion at a weight and no team champion yet....2 Months later. Now both wrestlers are now walking around 20 pounds over weight and have to start cutting. Since both wrestler A and wrestler B need time heal (weight issue) and both want to wrestle in Spain as a warm up....we set the wrestle off for mid August. For the March National Championship team and individual at that weight. Sounds AWESOME!
Ok, come on now. Don't play dumb about it. I love Zain. He's one of my all-time favorite PSU wrestlers, but he was the most notorious hands to the face guy in college wrestling for years. In fact, one of the major talking points during his world team run in 2017 was that he needed to tone down the hands to the face because it will get called in freestyle, like it did against Oliver at the open. Pico almost started his MMA career early at junior trials when he wrestled Zain because Zain's hand was permanently in his face. It's not a moral failure on his part. The rules allowed him to do it and when they didn't in freestyle, he toned it down. But don't act like he wasn't that guy.
You're drawing false equivalencies. The equivalent in baseball wouldn't be a strike 3 call. It would be the umpires forgetting to record the 3rd out, giving the team an extra opportunity when the game should be over, and they win. Then the courts say "no the game was already over." Nothing about this is subjective like you all try to make it out to be. The match was over with Yianni winning. Then, after the match, the rules were not followed and the result was flipped. The courts just negated the post match result flip.I also posted in another forum this.
I'm good with the best wrestler representing the USA. Yianni is other wordly... But I'm not fine with courts making the decidion. This sucks that a court several months later decides the winner. Should have been determined right there ...that day. If it was opposite and Zain petitioned courts...I'd feel the same way. Whatever it takes.....GET the courts out of sports.
Imagine it happening during game 7 of the World Series of a strike 3 call that was actually a ball...or if your Canadian..the last match for the Canadian Curling Championship.
Imagine this...wrestler A wins the National Championship and puts his team ahead by 2 points, which is all it takes to win the Team National Championships. Wrestler B petitions the courts and 2 months later they negate the match for whatever reason (right or wrong). Now we don't have a National Champion at a weight and no team champion yet....2 Months later. Now both wrestlers are now walking around 20 pounds over weight and have to start cutting. Since both wrestler A and wrestler B need time heal (weight issue) and both want to wrestle in Spain as a warm up....we set the wrestle off for mid August. For the March National Championship team and individual at that weight. Sounds AWESOME!
You will have to forgive Hotshoe. He has never subscribed to Flo so he undoubtedly missed many of the watermelon killer's matches
I never said I don't want things better--so don't say I did. I'm saying typically, people at least play lip service to sports as giving good life lessons. Maybe you have had a completely fair life at large--if so--congrats! Most of us don't have that luxury--and to many parents who enroll their kids in sports--the goal is to expose them to the tough lessons of life in a somewhat protected and regulated environment. I know I do. I think settling a game in a courtroom setting is a gigantic buzzkill, and is structurally worse than the occasional injustice. Sorry I don't agree with you, but that's is how I feel. If you need examples of parents who agree with me--scroll through Greg Martin's twitter feed.
So--no--I don't think "fairness" should be intentionally sacrificed--but I think that pursuing it like some Aristotelian ideal is both futile, and ultimately at times counterproductive to what I believe to be more important tenants of sport. I just don't get why you're so convinced my favoring Zain in this matchup is influencing my thoughts. This is the kind of stuff I kvetch about all the time. Of course, you wouldn't know that--but you continue to misjudge me. At least I'm giving you the sweet satisfaction of confirmation bias, I suppose.
And I do somewhat dislike wrestling fans' collective obsession with continuous improvements to the rules. Some changes are needed, and make a big impact, but the constant tinkering, in my opinion also diminishes the sport. I don't like the trend in other sports--I'm railing against trends I don't like (like kids on my damn lawn, I suppose), I'm not trying to get Zain a tainted spot on the World Team. It would be so, so much sweeter if he wins it outright, and that's where I am w/ that.
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This all adds up to we are not going to see a Cornell vs Penn State dual in the near future!!! or ever
This 1000%. There's plenty of interviews out there with his opponents where they talk about how frustrating it is to wrestle him bc of it. Pico once said that if he wanted to make it a boxing match they could, but he was there to wrestle and Zain shouldn't be doing what he was doing (paraphrasing his comments ofc).
No one needed Flo to follow Zain's college career closely.
#youaretryingtoohard
#yourejustupsettheywereyourfatherinlawswatermelons
I concede Zain's handfighting is notorious for drifiting "south" pretty often. One of the things our coaches do well is work within the gray areas of the rules. I'm cool w/ that.
That said, I always interpreted the increased emphasis in NCAAs as a result of the people who tried to give Zain a taste of his own medicine, but pushed past the line, and into more of a boxing modality. See his matches with Collica, Deluca and Amine most specifically--those guys really pushed what was a "head tap" to the next level.
That said, I always interpreted the increased emphasis in NCAAs as a result of the people who tried to give Zain a taste of his own medicine, but pushed past the line, and into more of a boxing modality. See his matches with Collica, Deluca and Amine most specifically--those guys really pushed what was a "head tap" to the next level.
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Jesse Delgado? Retreating off the edge and riding below the waist. However, you have different tiers for world champions so continue on.
Goalpost moving. What you're saying was not the assertion.
The assertion was Zain being the source of the hands to the face rule. And Hotshoe is right -- it was Zain's face to many teams' hands, starting with Rutgers and spreading from there, primarily as a stalling technique.
Zain's college career remains one of the great mysteries of life for non-subscribers, up there with the Nazca Lines.
That is not an accurate analogy.
The outcome, Zain victorious was never Rob's beef because Zain won the match by scoring more points than Yanni. Rob's beef was the manner in which the proper victor was declared. Rob's argument is that 2 of Zain's earned points should not be counted because of a procedural rule.
So to make your baseball analogy more accurate you should be arguing not that the umpires simply forgot to record the third out, but instead first team A scored two runs to take the lead, then after team A took the lead the umpires missed the third out and allowed an extra out.
Either way not very good analogies, but carry on. You are enjoying yourself.
The emphasis on hands-to-the-face (aka The Zain Rule) is one of the better salt-in-the-wound cases in NCAA wrestling history.
For years, Zain was permitted to post on the head, push it, jam it, turn it every-which-way-including-loose, and thus give himself an unfair advantage over his competition. Opposing fan bases were persistently antagonized by the tactic, with one team's fans expressing outrage of the highest order. Life was so unfair.
And then came salt in the wound . . . Zain was the recipient of some "whatever-you-do-I-can-do-harder" medicine for his head during his senior season, which of course did not phase him. He did not retaliate, but just kept beating dudes en route to his third straigt undefeated season, second straight Dan Hodge Trophy, and third straight NCAA title. Cael, on the other hand, wanted to twist the knife. Knowing he had the NCAA in his back pocket (based on something he read somewhere a few dozen times), he made a phone call. Shortly after Zain graduated, and with Penn State Wrestling still celebrating it's 7th team championship in 8 years, the Zain Rule was released by the NCAA.
And to that aforementioned highly outraged fan base, Cael was all like:
So yeah, we celebrate The Zain Rule.
For years, Zain was permitted to post on the head, push it, jam it, turn it every-which-way-including-loose, and thus give himself an unfair advantage over his competition. Opposing fan bases were persistently antagonized by the tactic, with one team's fans expressing outrage of the highest order. Life was so unfair.
And then came salt in the wound . . . Zain was the recipient of some "whatever-you-do-I-can-do-harder" medicine for his head during his senior season, which of course did not phase him. He did not retaliate, but just kept beating dudes en route to his third straigt undefeated season, second straight Dan Hodge Trophy, and third straight NCAA title. Cael, on the other hand, wanted to twist the knife. Knowing he had the NCAA in his back pocket (based on something he read somewhere a few dozen times), he made a phone call. Shortly after Zain graduated, and with Penn State Wrestling still celebrating it's 7th team championship in 8 years, the Zain Rule was released by the NCAA.
And to that aforementioned highly outraged fan base, Cael was all like:
So yeah, we celebrate The Zain Rule.
+1 for the gifThe emphasis on hands-to-the-face (aka The Zain Rule) is one of the better salt-in-the-wound cases in NCAA wrestling history.
For years, Zain was permitted to post on the head, push it, jam it, turn it every-which-way-including-loose, and thus give himself an unfair advantage over his competition. Opposing fan bases were persistently antagonized by the tactic, with one team's fans expressing outrage of the highest order. Life was so unfair.
And then came salt in the wound . . . Zain was the recipient of some "whatever-you-do-I-can-do-harder" medicine for his head during his senior season, which of course did not phase him. He did not retaliate, but just kept beating dudes en route to his third straigt undefeated season, second straight Dan Hodge Trophy, and third straight NCAA title. Cael, on the other hand, wanted to twist the knife. Knowing he had the NCAA in his back pocket (based on something he read somewhere a few dozen times), he made a phone call. Shortly after Zain graduated, and with Penn State Wrestling still celebrating it's 7th team championship in 8 years, the Zain Rule was released by the NCAA.
And to that aforementioned highly outraged fan base, Cael was all like:
So yeah, we celebrate The Zain Rule.
The emphasis on hands-to-the-face (aka The Zain Rule) is one of the better salt-in-the-wound cases in NCAA wrestling history.
For years, Zain was permitted to post on the head, push it, jam it, turn it every-which-way-including-loose, and thus give himself an unfair advantage over his competition. Opposing fan bases were persistently antagonized by the tactic, with one team's fans expressing outrage of the highest order. Life was so unfair.
And then came salt in the wound . . . Zain was the recipient of some "whatever-you-do-I-can-do-harder" medicine for his head during his senior season, which of course did not phase him. He did not retaliate, but just kept beating dudes en route to his third straigt undefeated season, second straight Dan Hodge Trophy, and third straight NCAA title. Cael, on the other hand, wanted to twist the knife. Knowing he had the NCAA in his back pocket (based on something he read somewhere a few dozen times), he made a phone call. Shortly after Zain graduated, and with Penn State Wrestling still celebrating it's 7th team championship in 8 years, the Zain Rule was released by the NCAA.
And to that aforementioned highly outraged fan base, Cael was all like:
So yeah, we celebrate The Zain Rule.
Today's winner of the interwebs! Well done Slush, well done.
Haha, I thought you might like that one.
