i'm just amazed at the sheer volume of posters who don't even know what the rules are, how UM supposedly violated them, and that the whole BT thing has nothing to do with advance scouting...lol. BT is seriously basing all possible punitive action on the BT handbook's nebulous "sportsmanship" clause...
Weitzel article: Claims NCAA revealed findings but not tying it back to Harbaugh.
- Thread starter SLion
- Start date
Everything you wrote is true, but most of the people who don't know what the rules are, don't know what Michigan is accused of and don't understand Big Ten rules are mostly Michigan people (including you).
I guess it goes above your head that having a well-organized system to violate a specific rule 30 times is bad sportsmanship. The same conduct can violate two different codes of conduct. For instance, a lawyer can commit the crime of fraud and go to jail and at the same time be disbarred under the ethical rules that govern attorneys. Two different punishments for the exact same violation
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see, another example of stupidity...what 30 times?..30 times stalions bought tix?...his buying tix may speak to intent, but is not a violation in and of itself..can it be a factor in an investigation, sure...but it's not '30 counts", you must be such a shitty hack lawyer..
once again, this isn't a criminal investigation and UM/Stalions does not get the benefit of the doubt. They don't get "innocent until proven guilty" status.
The number would depend on how much other evidence exists to go with the tickets. For example, at least one school has survellience video of the person sitting in those seats using their phone to record the other team's sideline. Does that only exist the one time or do other schools have that too? Or are there electronic records (video or written notes) associated with those tickets from the UM servers?
Additionally, for one game you can have more than one violation. In person scouting plus video = 2 violations per game. If it's 30 games, that's 60 violations.
This is pretty useful:
www.espn.com
Here are some key points (with my commentary in green):
"The league recently sent Michigan a notice of disciplinary action, required by the sportsmanship policy "in the event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to" penalties.
Michigan was expected to send its response to the Big Ten by the end of Wednesday, but any discipline from league commissioner Tony Petitti was not expected until Thursday at the earliest. "
This is the timeline I was talking about before which Lando disputed.
"The Big Ten believes it has the facts to be certain that Michigan illegally obtained signals, which the league considers serious. "
There seem to be those who don't think the conference has the data to punish Michigan.
"But the Big Ten views Harbaugh as being responsible for everything in the program, whether he has knowledge of it or not. The league could cite NCAA bylaw 11.1.1.1, which states: "An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach.""
I've also seen people argue that the "Buck stops with the head coach" doesn't apply to the Big Ten. Not true.
"
The Big Ten's sportsmanship policy, a brief and somewhat vaguely written document that has been revised only once since 2013, grants Petitti "exclusive authority" to determine whether violations have occurred, and to dole out discipline. Petitti would be leaning into the policy if he chooses to suspend Harbaugh, possibly noting factors outlined in considering discipline, such as, "the manner in which the offensive action fits within the context of the rules of the game for the sport at issue."
Note: exclusive authority. Lots of latitude for the conference to punish here, just needs agreement from the Executive Committee.
"The length of a Harbaugh suspension is also worth monitoring. A two-game suspension -- covering Saturday's game at Penn State and a Nov. 18 game at Maryland -- would fall under standard discipline, which Petitti could impose on his own. Anything beyond two games is classified as "major" discipline, and would require approval from the Joint Group Executive Committee, which includes representatives from several league members. The JGEC can deny or lessen the penalties Petitti proposes, but sources do not expect it to be an obstacle for the commissioner."
Note that last bit. The Executive Committee isn't like to oppose the commisioner.
Michigan vs. the Big Ten: What's next in a potentially epic battle
A nearly unprecedented battle between a conference and one of its flagship teams is brewing, with a resolution expected soon. Here's where things stand from both sides.
Here are some key points (with my commentary in green):
"The league recently sent Michigan a notice of disciplinary action, required by the sportsmanship policy "in the event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to" penalties.
Michigan was expected to send its response to the Big Ten by the end of Wednesday, but any discipline from league commissioner Tony Petitti was not expected until Thursday at the earliest. "
This is the timeline I was talking about before which Lando disputed.
"The Big Ten believes it has the facts to be certain that Michigan illegally obtained signals, which the league considers serious. "
There seem to be those who don't think the conference has the data to punish Michigan.
"But the Big Ten views Harbaugh as being responsible for everything in the program, whether he has knowledge of it or not. The league could cite NCAA bylaw 11.1.1.1, which states: "An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach.""
I've also seen people argue that the "Buck stops with the head coach" doesn't apply to the Big Ten. Not true.
"
The Big Ten's sportsmanship policy, a brief and somewhat vaguely written document that has been revised only once since 2013, grants Petitti "exclusive authority" to determine whether violations have occurred, and to dole out discipline. Petitti would be leaning into the policy if he chooses to suspend Harbaugh, possibly noting factors outlined in considering discipline, such as, "the manner in which the offensive action fits within the context of the rules of the game for the sport at issue."
Note: exclusive authority. Lots of latitude for the conference to punish here, just needs agreement from the Executive Committee.
"The length of a Harbaugh suspension is also worth monitoring. A two-game suspension -- covering Saturday's game at Penn State and a Nov. 18 game at Maryland -- would fall under standard discipline, which Petitti could impose on his own. Anything beyond two games is classified as "major" discipline, and would require approval from the Joint Group Executive Committee, which includes representatives from several league members. The JGEC can deny or lessen the penalties Petitti proposes, but sources do not expect it to be an obstacle for the commissioner."
Note that last bit. The Executive Committee isn't like to oppose the commisioner.
You're so full of shit it's utterly laughable. There absolutely is a prohibition against "Advanced Scouting" of in-season opponents and this includes a prohibition against commissioning others to use electronic devices to record or document in season opponents via "Advanced Scouting". Complete bullshit that you can commission others to do advance scouting for you including recording opponent games before you play them. You're completely full of shit as per usual - go figure.
We know he can’t understand nuance, please don’t confuse him with math. Walmart’s only has at most I would imagine 20 to 25 aisle’s. Big numbers like 30 and 60 are unfathomable to him.
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great summary. Looks like they have enough evidence to discipline UM. And by UM, that may or may not be Hairball. So it may be that UM was told the evidence and the punishment. UM has a few days to rebut or appeal. I guess they can file a lawsuit but for what? If they are guilty, and at least Stalions has already admitted guilt, it is just a matter of if the punishment fits the crime. And that is solely up to the B1G/NCAAThis is pretty useful:
Michigan vs. the Big Ten: What's next in a potentially epic battle
A nearly unprecedented battle between a conference and one of its flagship teams is brewing, with a resolution expected soon. Here's where things stand from both sides.
Here are some key points (with my commentary in green):
"The league recently sent Michigan a notice of disciplinary action, required by the sportsmanship policy "in the event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to" penalties.
Michigan was expected to send its response to the Big Ten by the end of Wednesday, but any discipline from league commissioner Tony Petitti was not expected until Thursday at the earliest. "
This is the timeline I was talking about before which Lando disputed.
"The Big Ten believes it has the facts to be certain that Michigan illegally obtained signals, which the league considers serious. "
There seem to be those who don't think the conference has the data to punish Michigan.
"But the Big Ten views Harbaugh as being responsible for everything in the program, whether he has knowledge of it or not. The league could cite NCAA bylaw 11.1.1.1, which states: "An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach.""
I've also seen people argue that the "Buck stops with the head coach" doesn't apply to the Big Ten. Not true.
"
The Big Ten's sportsmanship policy, a brief and somewhat vaguely written document that has been revised only once since 2013, grants Petitti "exclusive authority" to determine whether violations have occurred, and to dole out discipline. Petitti would be leaning into the policy if he chooses to suspend Harbaugh, possibly noting factors outlined in considering discipline, such as, "the manner in which the offensive action fits within the context of the rules of the game for the sport at issue."
Note: exclusive authority. Lots of latitude for the conference to punish here, just needs agreement from the Executive Committee.
"The length of a Harbaugh suspension is also worth monitoring. A two-game suspension -- covering Saturday's game at Penn State and a Nov. 18 game at Maryland -- would fall under standard discipline, which Petitti could impose on his own. Anything beyond two games is classified as "major" discipline, and would require approval from the Joint Group Executive Committee, which includes representatives from several league members. The JGEC can deny or lessen the penalties Petitti proposes, but sources do not expect it to be an obstacle for the commissioner."
Note that last bit. The Executive Committee isn't like to oppose the commisioner.
They could try to get an emergency injunction but there are number of requirements for that which I don't think would be easy for UM to meet and I don't even really know what legal standing their underlying lawsuit would have (i.e. the commissioner seems to have a lot of control in this, so it's hard to argue the Big Ten isn't following it's own rules).
Agree. think about that. they would file for relief from the court for an incident they've already admitted happened to keep the club that they willingly belong to, and make tens of millions of dollars from, to NOT hand down punishment they've already given the power to do so.
Everyone involved has to play the game to fortify their supporters and position. If penalized, UM will seek and receive a TRO (judge shopping). The BIG if serious about this, will seek an immediate stay which will probably be granted. Then the roller coaster ride gets really interesting.
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I don't think UM gets an injunction but even if they can, the timing isn't on their side. If the punishment comes down tomorrow (as expected) Friday is both a state and federal holiday. Very little chance of an injunction before Monday (if at all).
I used incorrect terminology (since corrected). Michigan will initially be seeking a TRO, which can easily be granted within hours with the proper judge. I’m positive UM is locked and loaded just waiting to fill in a few blanks as to cause. Since as you stated Friday is a Federal Holiday, what happens then becomes rather murky as to timing.
The full quote from former Big 12 Commissioner Steven Hatchell is somewhat rambling, but the money line is: "There should not be a rush to judgment." He speaks about how part of the job of a commissioner is to "protect [each] school from [the other] 13."
Hatchell is currently the president/CEO of the National Football Foundation, the organization that manages the CFB Hall of Fame.
Hatchell may seem like a odd voice to be speaking out publicly, but the thought is that Hatchell is speaking on behalf of the Big 12 -- the apparent insinuation being that the Big 12 does not want details of potential sign-sharing between Big Ten opponents and TCU to emerge, if Petitti suspends Harbaugh and Michigan is forced to sue.
I know you all won't like this but @ivan brunetti makes a valid point. It all would fall under the same thing in terms of Big Ten jurisdiction. Not NCAA where it is clearly different.
At the earliest...meaning unlikely tomorrowThis is pretty useful:
Michigan vs. the Big Ten: What's next in a potentially epic battle
A nearly unprecedented battle between a conference and one of its flagship teams is brewing, with a resolution expected soon. Here's where things stand from both sides.
Here are some key points (with my commentary in green):
"The league recently sent Michigan a notice of disciplinary action, required by the sportsmanship policy "in the event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to" penalties.
Michigan was expected to send its response to the Big Ten by the end of Wednesday, but any discipline from league commissioner Tony Petitti was not expected until Thursday at the earliest. "
This is the timeline I was talking about before which Lando disputed.
"The Big Ten believes it has the facts to be certain that Michigan illegally obtained signals, which the league considers serious. "
There seem to be those who don't think the conference has the data to punish Michigan.
"But the Big Ten views Harbaugh as being responsible for everything in the program, whether he has knowledge of it or not. The league could cite NCAA bylaw 11.1.1.1, which states: "An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach.""
I've also seen people argue that the "Buck stops with the head coach" doesn't apply to the Big Ten. Not true.
"
The Big Ten's sportsmanship policy, a brief and somewhat vaguely written document that has been revised only once since 2013, grants Petitti "exclusive authority" to determine whether violations have occurred, and to dole out discipline. Petitti would be leaning into the policy if he chooses to suspend Harbaugh, possibly noting factors outlined in considering discipline, such as, "the manner in which the offensive action fits within the context of the rules of the game for the sport at issue."
Note: exclusive authority. Lots of latitude for the conference to punish here, just needs agreement from the Executive Committee.
"The length of a Harbaugh suspension is also worth monitoring. A two-game suspension -- covering Saturday's game at Penn State and a Nov. 18 game at Maryland -- would fall under standard discipline, which Petitti could impose on his own. Anything beyond two games is classified as "major" discipline, and would require approval from the Joint Group Executive Committee, which includes representatives from several league members. The JGEC can deny or lessen the penalties Petitti proposes, but sources do not expect it to be an obstacle for the commissioner."
Note that last bit. The Executive Committee isn't like to oppose the commisioner.
Do not legitimize a fool like Hand-o by responding to his PiT nonsense.
rule 32 of the handbook explicitly prohibits the conference from acting if the ncaa has already begun an investigation...explicitly states the conference must wait to act until the ncaa concludes it's investigation..the guy is supposed to be a harvard law grad, should probably spend more time listening to in house counselThis is pretty useful:
Michigan vs. the Big Ten: What's next in a potentially epic battle
A nearly unprecedented battle between a conference and one of its flagship teams is brewing, with a resolution expected soon. Here's where things stand from both sides.
Here are some key points (with my commentary in green):
"The league recently sent Michigan a notice of disciplinary action, required by the sportsmanship policy "in the event it becomes clear that an institution is likely to be subjected to" penalties.
Michigan was expected to send its response to the Big Ten by the end of Wednesday, but any discipline from league commissioner Tony Petitti was not expected until Thursday at the earliest. "
This is the timeline I was talking about before which Lando disputed.
"The Big Ten believes it has the facts to be certain that Michigan illegally obtained signals, which the league considers serious. "
There seem to be those who don't think the conference has the data to punish Michigan.
"But the Big Ten views Harbaugh as being responsible for everything in the program, whether he has knowledge of it or not. The league could cite NCAA bylaw 11.1.1.1, which states: "An institution's head coach is presumed to be responsible for the actions of all institutional staff members who report, directly or indirectly, to the head coach.""
I've also seen people argue that the "Buck stops with the head coach" doesn't apply to the Big Ten. Not true.
"
The Big Ten's sportsmanship policy, a brief and somewhat vaguely written document that has been revised only once since 2013, grants Petitti "exclusive authority" to determine whether violations have occurred, and to dole out discipline. Petitti would be leaning into the policy if he chooses to suspend Harbaugh, possibly noting factors outlined in considering discipline, such as, "the manner in which the offensive action fits within the context of the rules of the game for the sport at issue."
Note: exclusive authority. Lots of latitude for the conference to punish here, just needs agreement from the Executive Committee.
"The length of a Harbaugh suspension is also worth monitoring. A two-game suspension -- covering Saturday's game at Penn State and a Nov. 18 game at Maryland -- would fall under standard discipline, which Petitti could impose on his own. Anything beyond two games is classified as "major" discipline, and would require approval from the Joint Group Executive Committee, which includes representatives from several league members. The JGEC can deny or lessen the penalties Petitti proposes, but sources do not expect it to be an obstacle for the commissioner."
Note that last bit. The Executive Committee isn't like to oppose the commisioner.
The stupid police are at pubehair666 door with a warrant.
Harbaugh' s third base comments, Harbaugh saying he will get a tattoo of he wins 15 games, Michigan players chirping at Ohio state, JJ gloating after last years win.
All things OSU has done over the last 20 years. I’m sure you would agree.
No. I don't agree. At least since tressel.
Not totally shocked you don’t. Thought you were at least somewhat not totally bias but appears I was wrong. Continue on
he's an inbred buckeye, what did you expect?...ever see that pic of a nut fan shitting in a cooler?
Show me the evidence of Ohio State tressel and later publicly taking pot shots at Michigan or its players chirping like the Michigan players do.
And your head was in the cooler with your mouth open, pubehair666.
Well let’s start with the biggest rule you have broken first. You should be calling it that school up north and you shouldn’t use the letter M.
