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Weitzel article: Claims NCAA revealed findings but not tying it back to Harbaugh.

Great article.

What I question is the notion that Hairball knew or didn't know. Who cares? If he didn't know, which is highly unlikely, he should have known. His DC clearly did. And secondly, the damage was done to other schools. The suspension should be against MICHIGAN, not Hairball specifically. If that is a suspension, so be it. But that is simply a penalty to the university.

Secondly, at NW, the coach was fired even though their investigation showed the coach didn't know about the hazing. I know that is NW and not Michigan, but the "I didn't know" issue wasn't considered an excuse.

Lastly, I found this interesting:

Any Big Ten penalty will be rooted in the conference’s sportsmanship policy, which allows for the commissioner to hand down disciplinary measures for violating the “integrity of competition” in the “competitive arena,” the policy says.​
​
According to the policy, the commissioner can take disciplinary action that is considered “standard” or “major.” Standard action includes a fine not exceeding $10,000 and a suspension of no more than two contests. Major action is anything exceeding those penalties and is subject to approval from the Big Ten executive board of presidents.​
​
Any school targeted for a violation of the sportsmanship policy is permitted a “reasonable timeframe” set by the commissioner to file a response with the league. The conference is believed to have given Michigan a deadline of mid-week to file a response before action is taken.​
​
That would seem to cut off any relief from a legal court action. They've consented to give the B1G and NCAA complete discretion on disciplinary measures relating to the integrity of the competition.
 
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Obliviax said:
Great article.

What I question is the notion that Hairball knew or didn't know. Who cares? If he didn't know, which is highly unlikely, he should have known. His DC clearly did. And secondly, the damage was done to other schools. The suspension should be against MICHIGAN, not Hairball specifically. If that is a suspension, so be it. But that is simply a penalty to the university.

Secondly, at NW, the coach was fired even though their investigation showed the coach didn't know about the hazing. I know that is NW and not Michigan, but the "I didn't know" issue wasn't considered an excuse.

Lastly, I found this interesting:

Any Big Ten penalty will be rooted in the conference’s sportsmanship policy, which allows for the commissioner to hand down disciplinary measures for violating the “integrity of competition” in the “competitive arena,” the policy says.​
​
According to the policy, the commissioner can take disciplinary action that is considered “standard” or “major.” Standard action includes a fine not exceeding $10,000 and a suspension of no more than two contests. Major action is anything exceeding those penalties and is subject to approval from the Big Ten executive board of presidents.​
​
Any school targeted for a violation of the sportsmanship policy is permitted a “reasonable timeframe” set by the commissioner to file a response with the league. The conference is believed to have given Michigan a deadline of mid-week to file a response before action is taken.​
​
That would seem to cut off any relief from a legal court action. They've consented to give the B1G and NCAA complete discretion on disciplinary measures relating to the integrity of the competition.
Click to expand...
Reasonable time frame can end up in court. "Standard or major" hurts Michigan but reasonable time frame is often litigated.
 
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LandoComando said:
Reasonable time frame can end up in court. "Standard or major" hurts Michigan but reasonable time frame is often litigated.
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OK. I disagree.

Any school targeted for a violation of the sportsmanship policy is permitted a “reasonable timeframe” set by the commissioner to file a response with the league. The conference is believed to have given Michigan a deadline of mid-week to file a response before action is taken.​
​
If this is accurate, again, UM agreed to the rules and gave the commissioner full authority. (from the article)
 
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Obliviax said:
OK. I disagree.

Any school targeted for a violation of the sportsmanship policy is permitted a “reasonable timeframe” set by the commissioner to file a response with the league. The conference is believed to have given Michigan a deadline of mid-week to file a response before action is taken.​
​
If this is accurate, again, UM agreed to the rules and gave the commissioner full authority. (from the article)
Click to expand...
Reasonable can still be litigated. It's why it doesn't just say timeframe
 
Dear WWW CEO. I am the CEO of XYZ hedge fund. We have video footage of your employee at WWW hedge fund going to various trade floors, dressed in XYZ clothing and taking data on proprietary trade algos.. He has apparently been doing this at 65 other hedge funds as well We have alerted the authorities. Proof is there.

WWW CEO- the employee was let go but we never used his knowledge and even if we did, it had no bearing on how our business (in dumps for 9 years) suddenly over-perforned over last two years while he was employed here, working closely with our traders. We are the greatest. We will continue to use data until we have to respond to authorities. We will then sue to ensure our profits thrive in mean time. I did nothing wrong and will not step down.

Imagine this strategy in business world.
 
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SLion said:
Dear WWW CEO. I am the CEO of XYZ hedge fund. We have video footage of your employee at WWW hedge fund going to various trade floors, dressed in XYZ clothing and taking data on proprietary trade algos.. He has apparently been doing this at 65 other hedge funds as well We have alerted the authorities. Proof is there.

WWW CEO- the employee was let go but we never used his knowledge and even if we did, it had no bearing on how our business was in dumps for 9 years then suddenly over-perforned over last two years while they were employed here, working closely with our traders. We are the greatest. We will continue to use data until we have to respond to authorities. We will then sue to ensure our profits thrive in mean time. I did nothing wrong and will not step down.

Imagine this strategy in business world.
Click to expand...

Actually, it would be more similar to the SEC notifying them they're taking action (as they likely would be a Registered Investment Advisor based on AUM and out-of-state clients) and the Hedge Fund saying they're going to file for an injunction against the SEC - something no court would ever grant as the SEC is entitled to take action against an Investment Advisor Registered at the Federal Level. The only chance they would have of winning is to show that the SEC was acting with zero probable-cause and outside their authority to act.
 
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SLion said:
sports.yahoo.com

Sources: NCAA revealed Michigan findings to Big Ten; conference mulling Jim Harbaugh suspension

Big Ten commissioner Tony Petitti’s pursuit of potential penalties against Harbaugh is the latest chapter in an ongoing saga that has gripped the college football world.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

ON3 reporting that:

Big Ten sends formal notice of potential disciplinary action to UM.​

Click to expand...

I said this earlier - scUM's chances in court are severely compromised by the fact that they are attempting to bring action against a self-regulating Member Organization that they are a Member of.... scUM would have to show that the Member Organization is acting outside the authority, and powers, granted to it by the Members. The B1G is clearly acting within the authority and powers granted to it by the Members - IOW, scUM has no case.
 
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SLion said:
Dear WWW CEO. I am the CEO of XYZ hedge fund. We have video footage of your employee at WWW hedge fund going to various trade floors, dressed in XYZ clothing and taking data on proprietary trade algos.. He has apparently been doing this at 65 other hedge funds as well We have alerted the authorities. Proof is there.

WWW CEO- the employee was let go but we never used his knowledge and even if we did, it had no bearing on how our business (in dumps for 9 years) suddenly over-perforned over last two years while he was employed here, working closely with our traders. We are the greatest. We will continue to use data until we have to respond to authorities. We will then sue to ensure our profits thrive in mean time. I did nothing wrong and will not step down.

Imagine this strategy in business world.
Click to expand...
Very accurately and succinctly stated. He was just a rogue employee who orchestrated this scheme with 65 associates and Harbaugh (1) knew nothing about it and (2) never used any of the information he gathered. Anyone who believes that also believes Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real too.
 
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bvillebaron said:
Very accurately and succinctly stated. He was just a rogue employee who orchestrated this scheme with 65 associates and Harbaugh (1) knew nothing about it and (2) never used any of the information he gathered. Anyone who believes that also believes Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real too.
Click to expand...
The "I didn't know" defense has been used many times in all sorts of situations. I would guess that it is almost always BS.
 
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bluehair666 said:
but historically effective in mitigating punishment...
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't defeat the "Institutional Control" clause. BTW, how precisely was Stalions named a "Volunteer Coach" - there are very specific forms that must be filled out and SIGNED by the HC, the AD and the Compliance Officer. Beyond that, I don't believe "Volunteer Coaches" are permitted for D1A Football and Basketball.
 
CJFisJoePaII said:
No, it doesn't defeat the "Institutional Control" clause. BTW, how precisely was Stalions named a "Volunteer Coach" - there are very specific forms that must be filled out and SIGNED by the HC, the AD and the Compliance Officer. Beyond that, I don't believe "Volunteer Coaches" are permitted for D1A Football and Basketball.
Click to expand...
there is no institutional control clause in big ten bylaws, you're referencing the new ncaa policy...try to stay with us, bushwood
 
JWB389 said:
These are the same people who believe JVP knew every move JS made…..while JS was operating a charity for troubled boys.
Click to expand...
But the same people who complained about a rush to judgment then are doing it now? Almost everyone is a hypocrite here.
 
Huh. Was just thinking. If the refs fix the game like they did post JS against us, against PSU and osu, this is largely irrelevant.
 
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bluehair666 said:
there is no institutional control clause in big ten bylaws, you're referencing the new ncaa policy...try to stay with us, bushwood
Click to expand...

All b1g schools are NCAA Members dipshit and allowing your program to wantonly violate NCAA Rules (i.e., cheating) undermines the integrity of the game and is a violation of the Sportsmanship Clauses. So again, you're full of shit - Hairball doesn't have a leg to stand on just like he didn't when he and his assistants chose to lie to the NCAA.
 
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Let me know when the NCAA finds an improperly itemized receipt for donuts - at that point I'll know they're serious.
 
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CJFisJoePaII said:
All b1g schools are NCAA Members dipshit and allowing your program to wantonly violate NCAA Rules (i.e., cheating) undermines the integrity of the game and is a violation of the Sportsmanship Clauses. So again, you're full of shit - Hairball doesn't have a leg to stand on just like he didn't when he and his assistants chose to lie to the NCAA.
Click to expand...
Wait...you're claiming the Big Ten can sanction or suspend using LOIC? Is this happening?

The Big Ten has limitations on what they can do and the info regarding the NCAA doesn't help. The NCAA can still penalize for LOIC but not the Big Ten based on everything that we know.
 
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LandoComando said:
But the same people who complained about a rush to judgment then are doing it now? Almost everyone is a hypocrite here.
Click to expand...

Pretty normal in sports. We scream like hell when a ref blows a call that hurts us, and laugh like hell when a ref blows a call that hurts an opponent.

What I question is the level of infraction. There is all kinds of "cheating" that goes on in college football. Calling a pick pass play is cheating. Teaching your DBs to grab opposing receivers is cheating. If you get caught, it is a penalty. I don't think Stalions cheating by being on the CMU sideline is any worse than what we saw with the Baylor coach who was caught cheating by scouting in person. And acquiring signal information from various sources now appears to be commonplace.

We will have to wait and see what the Big Ten does on Wednesday.
 
ivan brunetti said:
Pretty normal in sports. We scream like hell when a ref blows a call that hurts us, and laugh like hell when a ref blows a call that hurts an opponent.

What I question is the level of infraction. There is all kinds of "cheating" that goes on in college football. Calling a pick pass play is cheating. Teaching your DBs to grab opposing receivers is cheating. If you get caught, it is a penalty. I don't think Stalions cheating by being on the CMU sideline is any worse than what we saw with the Baylor coach who was caught cheating by scouting in person. And acquiring signal information from various sources now appears to be commonplace.

We will have to wait and see what the Big Ten does on Wednesday.
Click to expand...
Oh, I agree--the hypocrisy is normal but still frustrating.
And I also agree that there's levels of cheating and i have no idea what to expect from the NCAA regarding penalties.
I don't think the Big Ten does anything this week but this is unprecedented so we shall see.
 
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ivan brunetti said:
I agree that was Stalions at the CMU game. But that is one game. Same as the Baylor coach who served a half game suspension.
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What do you expect if Connor is not co-operating? He is not going to give up his network. This is not criminal matter.
 
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bvillebaron said:
What rush to judgment. The guy resigned because he did nothing. There is video evidence of him at games.
Click to expand...
There's no "rush to judgment on Stalions" but see Baylor.
People here want the Big Ten to ban Michigan for the post season--that's insane with the information we have--see the NCAA findings that Harbaugh had no connection. I still find that impossible to believe but nothing will happen to Michigan this year in a meaningful way and people here don't seem to understand that.
 
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There is an NCAA rule that something that your staff or players do, the head coach is at least partially responsible. And so, if the NCAA concludes that it was Stalions on the CMU sideline (as it looks to be), that is probably a one game suspension for Harbaugh after the investigation is completed. (See Baylor coach caught scouting.) Maybe more games considering the recruiting violation investigation is still going on.

There is not a similar Big Ten rule. A player or assistant coach breaking a rule does not result in the head coach taking a conference suspension. Mel Tucker was not suspended when his players got into a post game fight. There are many other examples. So, unless the Big Ten has completed an investigation that shows Harbaugh was in on Stalions' Mission Impossible behavior, I don't think Harbaugh will be suspended by the conference.

We will only have to wait until Wednesday to see what the Big Ten decides to do and how Michigan chooses to respond.
 
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scUM is all lawyered up just waiting for a fight. There will be no penalty this year, Harbaugh off to the NFL next year, and not much will come of it. I find it curious that in lieu of all the “allegations” the commissioner talks to coaches and ADs. Has that ever happened before?
 
Ian said:
scUM is all lawyered up just waiting for a fight. There will be no penalty this year, Harbaugh off to the NFL next year, and not much will come of it. I find it curious that in lieu of all the “allegations” the commissioner talks to coaches and ADs. Has that ever happened before?
Click to expand...
Agreed. There is this weird Clintonesque denial going on. We are expected to believe this low-level assistant was standing next to the HC and DC and was telling the DC what the offense's plays were going to be with chart in hand yet nobody seemed to know how he got such great, detailed information. At the same time, he is flying all over the Midwest getting primo seats to college games and nobody seemed to question that. In addition, he shows up at a CMU game in CMU gear on the sidelines with Google Glasses for a night game and nobody seems to wonder how this happened. IMHO, the possibility that Harbaugh and/or the Dc were unaware is less than 1/1-th of 1%.
 
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Deny deny deny...make others prove your guilt. Michigan's approach. Moral or ethical? No probably not. The best legal decision? Absolutely

As soon as we knew Stalions wouldn't cooperate the likelihood of Michigan being severely punished this season went from unlikely to almost impossible
 
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LandoComando said:
Deny deny deny...make others prove your guilt. Michigan's approach. Moral or ethical? No probably not. The best legal decision? Absolutely

As soon as we knew Stalions wouldn't cooperate the likelihood of Michigan being severely punished this season went from unlikely to almost impossible
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this isn't a "legal" decision. It is a sports competition decision. No laws were broken. Yes, UM can sue but that will just delay things. UM signed up to give the commissioner the power to suspend. I don't think a judge will take more than a few minutes to role in the favor of the B1G and NCAA
 
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Obliviax said:
this isn't a "legal" decision. It is a sports competition decision. No laws were broken. Yes, UM can sue but that will just delay things. UM signed up to give the commissioner the power to suspend. I don't think a judge will take more than a few minutes to role in the favor of the B1G and NCAA
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It's 100% a legal decision and I'm not sure why you think it would be in the favor of them that quickly. It would likely take months.
 
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Obliviax said:
Great article.

What I question is the notion that Hairball knew or didn't know. Who cares? If he didn't know, which is highly unlikely, he should have known. His DC clearly did. And secondly, the damage was done to other schools. The suspension should be against MICHIGAN, not Hairball specifically. If that is a suspension, so be it. But that is simply a penalty to the university.

Secondly, at NW, the coach was fired even though their investigation showed the coach didn't know about the hazing. I know that is NW and not Michigan, but the "I didn't know" issue wasn't considered an excuse.

Lastly, I found this interesting:

Any Big Ten penalty will be rooted in the conference’s sportsmanship policy, which allows for the commissioner to hand down disciplinary measures for violating the “integrity of competition” in the “competitive arena,” the policy says.​
​
According to the policy, the commissioner can take disciplinary action that is considered “standard” or “major.” Standard action includes a fine not exceeding $10,000 and a suspension of no more than two contests. Major action is anything exceeding those penalties and is subject to approval from the Big Ten executive board of presidents.​
​
Any school targeted for a violation of the sportsmanship policy is permitted a “reasonable timeframe” set by the commissioner to file a response with the league. The conference is believed to have given Michigan a deadline of mid-week to file a response before action is taken.​
​
That would seem to cut off any relief from a legal court action. They've consented to give the B1G and NCAA complete discretion on disciplinary measures relating to the integrity of the competition.
Click to expand...
Why punish Harbaugh alone. Impose a post season ban gor 2023 and a 1 year suspensipn for the coach.
 
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LandoComando said:
There's no "rush to judgment on Stalions" but see Baylor.
People here want the Big Ten to ban Michigan for the post season--that's insane with the information we have--see the NCAA findings that Harbaugh had no connection. I still find that impossible to believe but nothing will happen to Michigan this year in a meaningful way and people here don't seem to understand that.
Click to expand...
Apparently the Big ten is going to do something and Michigan knows what that is. A deadline for a response was given. We shall see tomorrow.
 
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SR108 said:
Apparently the Big ten is going to do something and Michigan knows what that is. A deadline for a response was given. We shall see tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I'd also add the Michigan doesn't like it as they are throwing around threats of litigation.
 
SR108 said:
Apparently the Big ten is going to do something and Michigan knows what that is. A deadline for a response was given. We shall see tomorrow.
Click to expand...
We shall see. It's my birthday and would love it to be impactful but I think Michigan is calling th Big Ten's bluff. I'm expecting nothing more than a slap on the wrist. If it is more...I'm ready for the fireworks.
 
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LandoComando said:
Based on what is there almost zero chance for an injunction? I don't want there to be one but the odds of it are high not "almost zero".
Click to expand...
One of the requirements is showing (in the motion for an injunction) "actual harm." There is no actual harm from a staff suspension or probation.
 
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Michigan lawyering up to stall ball this until after the season. Their smoking gun is "Jimmah did not know!". So this is how they weasel out of it until after the post season.

Then Jimmah either finally brings a NC back to the Harvard of the West or he blows it again. Either way he gone to the NFL. If he wins it all then he has accomplished his objective and can conquer something in the NFL. If he blows it again then he just says screw it, I'm tired of this and I'm bailing from this sh## storm I knew about but will fake it that I am clueless.

Then all the greatest minds in the world otherwise known as the scUM administration wipe their dirty little hands clean and hire a new HC and whole new staff.
 
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