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OT: Anyone have experience with a self directed IRA?

Ranger Dan

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Aug 31, 2003
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Funny thing is that in January is started looking at maybe real estate (flip or rental property) as a way to diversify my retirement funding. Now that the corona virus put a dent in my 401k, I am more motivated than ever. I’m not going to sell my 401k shares not when they are low, but am considering not putting any new money in the 401k (I’m no Rockefeller, but should be ok as long as the 401k comes back).

So, anyone have experience with as an account owner or as an investment pro?
 
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Funny thing is that in January is started looking at maybe real estate (flip or rental property) as a way to diversify my retirement funding. Now that the corona virus put a dent in my 401k, I am more motivated than ever. I’m not going to sell my 401k shares not when they are low, but am considering not putting any new money in the 401k (I’m no Rockefeller, but should be ok as long as the 401k comes back).

So, anyone have experience with as an account owner or as an investment pro?

Why would you put no new monty in the 401k (assuming you have it to put in I mean)? I would think the fact stocks have fallen so much would mean it's a good time to buy, if you can.
 
Why would you put no new monty in the 401k (assuming you have it to put in I mean)? I would think the fact stocks have fallen so much would mean it's a good time to buy, if you can.
About to ask the same thing. Now is the time to be buying
 
Confused about the real estate question and self directed IRA. All IRA are self directed
 
Funny thing is that in January is started looking at maybe real estate (flip or rental property) as a way to diversify my retirement funding. Now that the corona virus put a dent in my 401k, I am more motivated than ever. I’m not going to sell my 401k shares not when they are low, but am considering not putting any new money in the 401k (I’m no Rockefeller, but should be ok as long as the 401k comes back).

So, anyone have experience with as an account owner or as an investment pro?
I guess I don’t understand the motivation of doing this other than it may be the only place you have sufficient funds to invest. Real estate is already tax advantaged. You lose those advantages sticking it in an IRA.
Few things:
1) you will be missing any company match for your 401k by not contributing. 2) You have to understand how much income you are really going to shelter on a yearly basis by sticking it in the IRA. The tax savings may not be worth it.
 
Funny thing is that in January is started looking at maybe real estate (flip or rental property) as a way to diversify my retirement funding. Now that the corona virus put a dent in my 401k, I am more motivated than ever. I’m not going to sell my 401k shares not when they are low, but am considering not putting any new money in the 401k (I’m no Rockefeller, but should be ok as long as the 401k comes back).

So, anyone have experience with as an account owner or as an investment pro?

I have not done it yet, but understand them a bit due to some real estate dabbling as you are currently doing. What questions do you have?

In a nutshell, an IRA, a 401k, etc are simply tax laws - nothing more, nothing less - that govern how income and capital gains are taxed. Any asset can be managed under a tax-shelter of these laws (ie securities, precious metals, real estate, etc).
It just so happens that there are tons of securities management firms around and securities provide an easy way to incrementally invest every month or at will, so it's the most common and most people only associate securities with these instruments.

Agree on a couple things others have said.
-If your employer does 401k matching, you'd be a fool not to put that much in.
-investing in a 401k lowers your taxable income for the year. Make sure you are not giving that up if it matters to you. Talk to an accountant (or perhaps a self-directed IRA mgr can offer direction). If you are not contributing to a 401k, I think you can get the same tax deduction for contributions to an IRA.

When I do it, I will likely shift $$ from my current 401K to a self-directed IRA. They are generally managed by a lawyer who will disperse funds at your direction, in accordance with the tax law. It's a great way to invest in real estate, whether it be to buy and hold of properties, or investing in short-term rehab projects. So for example, you decide to buy a rental property. You buy it with funds from your IRA, monthly rent checks go to your IRA, I assume expenses(RE taxes, insurance, repairs) are paid from your IRA. When you sell it, the proceeds go back to your IRA.
You may have also heard radio commercials about "Bank on yourself" or around making your mortgage payment to yourself. I'm 99% sure this is done through a self-directed IRA. Effectively, you can leverage a self-directed IRA to fund a note you have on your residence(or any RE for that matter). You can set the interest rate you pay yourself back at. Instead of paying the bank the interest, it goes into your IRA. I think, you still get the same annual federal tax deduction for interest paid to the bank, which, in this case, is yourself. I assume your self-directed IRA manager would issue you the 1098 at tax time.

Not 100% certain on some of the finer points, but hope this helps. Happy to discuss more.
 
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I have not done it yet, but understand them a bit due to some real estate dabbling as you are currently doing. What questions do you have?

In a nutshell, an IRA, a 401k, etc are simply tax laws - nothing more, nothing less - that govern how income and capital gains are taxed. Any asset can be managed under a tax-shelter of these laws (ie securities, precious metals, real estate, etc).
It just so happens that there are tons of securities management firms around and securities provide an easy way to incrementally invest every month or at will, so it's the most common and most people only associate securities with these instruments.

Agree on a couple things others have said.
-If your employer does 401k matching, you'd be a fool not to put that much in.
-investing in a 401k lowers your taxable income for the year. Make sure you are not giving that up if it matters to you. Talk to an accountant (or perhaps a self-directed IRA mgr can offer direction). If you are not contributing to a 401k, I think you can get the same tax deduction for contributions to an IRA.

When I do it, I will likely shift $$ from my current 401K to a self-directed IRA. They are generally managed by a lawyer who will disperse funds at your direction, in accordance with the tax law. It's a great way to invest in real estate, whether it be to buy and hold of properties, or investing in short-term rehab projects. So for example, you decide to buy a rental property. You buy it with funds from your IRA, monthly rent checks go to your IRA, I assume expenses(RE taxes, insurance, repairs) are paid from your IRA. When you sell it, the proceeds go back to your IRA.
You may have also heard radio commercials about "Bank on yourself" or around making your mortgage payment to yourself. I'm 99% sure this is done through a self-directed IRA. Effectively, you can leverage a self-directed IRA to fund a note you have on your residence(or any RE for that matter). You can set the interest rate you pay yourself back at. Instead of paying the bank the interest, it goes into your IRA. I think, you still get the same annual federal tax deduction for interest paid to the bank, which, in this case, is yourself. I assume your self-directed IRA manager would issue you the 1098 at tax time.

Not 100% certain on some of the finer points, but hope this helps. Happy to discuss more.
First you have to find a IRA custodian willing to allow real estate in your IRA
Then each year, you have to pay for an appraisal so the IRS has a value for your IRS
I believe there are other rules which govern IRA that apply like the same dealing rule. Which means you have to have someone other than you ( or family) manage the real estate, work on it etc.
good luck
 
Real estate? I would wait 3-6 months to see what is going to happen. Home values could drop 20% and the inventory is very low and new listings have dried up. Hopefully the market stays strong.
 
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Everything I've read seems to say that certain types of investments do better in a taxable account than in an IRA or 401k ... these include MLPs, real estate and municipal bonds.
 
I have a self directed IRA. When I rolled over a couple 401Ks in 2000 that immediately tanked I said f this and wanted to control my own money so opened and IRA at Ameritrade which is something else now. Granted it was very little money at the time but I have grown it about 800% to date. I would buy stocks based on things I read and companies I knew about. Took advantage of the 2008/2009 crash and bought some stuff really low that has grown very well since then.

I always wondered if I could use my retirement money to buy real estate investments, seems like you should be able to and there are a few companies that help you but it seems sketchy and I think the IRS is very very strict about it like other posters have mentioned. I always wanted to be a slum lord!!
 
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I guess I don’t understand the motivation of doing this other than it may be the only place you have sufficient funds to invest. Real estate is already tax advantaged. You lose those advantages sticking it in an IRA.
Few things:
1) you will be missing any company match for your 401k by not contributing. 2) You have to understand how much income you are really going to shelter on a yearly basis by sticking it in the IRA. The tax savings may not be worth it.
As usual, this board is great for giving their opinion, but not answering the question.

My company doesn’t have a 401k, and instead gives a 10% annual bonus in the form of a fully vested IRA contribution. I can leave it in Vanguard, or move it somewhere else. I want to not have all my retirement money in the stock market. A self directed IRA is (as I understand it) a one off investment that has the same restrictions as a traditional IRA, except it’s just for you. You can do this for precious metal, real estate, and other investments, but It requires someone to manage this.
 
Why would you put no new monty in the 401k (assuming you have it to put in I mean)? I would think the fact stocks have fallen so much would mean it's a good time to buy, if you can.
Prior to the virus, my advisor said to back off money going into 401k because by the time I should access it I will be OK, need other investments as income so I’m not drawing down 401k too soon. Real estate is something I thought about. Now, I want to separate all future tax deferred income from the stock market.
 
I have a self directed IRA. When I rolled over a couple 401Ks in 2000 that immediately tanked I said f this and wanted to control my own money so opened and IRA at Ameritrade which is something else now. Granted it was very little money at the time but I have grown it about 800% to date. I would buy stocks based on things I read and companies I knew about. Took advantage of the 2008/2009 crash and bought some stuff really low that has grown very well since then.

I always wondered if I could use my retirement money to buy real estate investments, seems like you should be able to and there are a few companies that help you but it seems sketchy and I think the IRS is very very strict about it like other posters have mentioned. I always wanted to be a slum lord!!
There are limitations to real estate based IRAs, specifically disappointing was the fact that I couldn’t buy a farm and use it for hunting.
 
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Everything I've read seems to say that certain types of investments do better in a taxable account than in an IRA or 401k ... these include MLPs, real estate and municipal bonds.
Yes, buy I’m getting the money in pre tax IRA form, as opposed to cash in the bank. I’m not sure it makes sense to turn this into taxable money right away.
 
Real estate? I would wait 3-6 months to see what is going to happen. Home values could drop 20% and the inventory is very low and new listings have dried up. Hopefully the market stays strong.
Thanks, just doing research now.
 
As usual, this board is great for giving their opinion, but not answering the question.

My company doesn’t have a 401k, and instead gives a 10% annual bonus in the form of a fully vested IRA contribution. I can leave it in Vanguard, or move it somewhere else. I want to not have all my retirement money in the stock market. A self directed IRA is (as I understand it) a one off investment that has the same restrictions as a traditional IRA, except it’s just for you. You can do this for precious metal, real estate, and other investments, but It requires someone to manage this.
You said "am considering not putting any new money in the 401k". Don't worry you won't get any more opinions from me.
 
As usual, this board is great for giving their opinion, but not answering the question.

My company doesn’t have a 401k, and instead gives a 10% annual bonus in the form of a fully vested IRA contribution. I can leave it in Vanguard, or move it somewhere else. I want to not have all my retirement money in the stock market. A self directed IRA is (as I understand it) a one off investment that has the same restrictions as a traditional IRA, except it’s just for you. You can do this for precious metal, real estate, and other investments, but It requires someone to manage this.


I'll also give you a "strategy" that does not address your question.

Converting regular IRA money into Roth IRA money is a great way to set up tax avoidance over the long run and also take advantage of the current low tax rates. I'm retired and my wife works for a non-profit so we haven't shown much payroll income the last few years, and I'm not taking Social Security until age 70 as SS is insurance against living long and will also be our only income stream that is inflation protected (i.e. if I live that long or longer..).

So I convert IRA money into Roth at low tax rates, usually an amount that takes me to or just over a selected tax bracket. And the Roth can then grow tax free forever, even being passed on to our heirs to grow tax free for them.

I'm mentioning this because the conversions I execute are of securities that are out of favor at that moment. For example, I transferred (converted to Roth) gold stocks early in 2019 when they were at record lows, paying the tax on them for what they were worth at that time. And now all the appreciation from that point is tax free forever. I mention this because with the market down now, and certain segments and individual stocks having been beaten down disproportionately, it's a great time to pay the tax on their current value and transfer/convert those assets into a Roth IRA..... Airline stocks, cruise ship companies, retail REIT's, oil companies.....

Just something else to think about. ;)
 
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As usual, this board is great for giving their opinion, but not answering the question.

My company doesn’t have a 401k, and instead gives a 10% annual bonus in the form of a fully vested IRA contribution. I can leave it in Vanguard, or move it somewhere else. I want to not have all my retirement money in the stock market. A self directed IRA is (as I understand it) a one off investment that has the same restrictions as a traditional IRA, except it’s just for you. You can do this for precious metal, real estate, and other investments, but It requires someone to manage this.
Hard to beat Vanguard's low management fees. Since something like 90% of fund managers do not consistently beat the average, the fees over a period of years make a big difference in returns. Your investment choices depend on your tolerance for risk. If you do not want 100% stock, look at Vanguard Wellington fund, maybe a 65/35 stock/bond split.
 
First you have to find a IRA custodian willing to allow real estate in your IRA
Then each year, you have to pay for an appraisal so the IRS has a value for your IRS
I believe there are other rules which govern IRA that apply like the same dealing rule. Which means you have to have someone other than you ( or family) manage the real estate, work on it etc.
good luck

Yup. Lots of companies that do it. Most come with no annual asset fees that many securities firms charge. There is no free lunch though. Regulation compliance drives costs everywhere.
 
Hard to beat Vanguard's low management fees. Since something like 90% of fund managers do not consistently beat the average, the fees over a period of years make a big difference in returns. Your investment choices depend on your tolerance for risk. If you do not want 100% stock, look at Vanguard Wellington fund, maybe a 65/35 stock/bond split.
I am regretting my aggressive portfolio choices now. Have remained 100% stock. Will adjust once the loss is regained or I turn 60, whichever comes first (I’m 52 now). I want something completely removed from the market, which I view as the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.
 
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I am regretting my aggressive portfolio choices now. Have remained 100% stock. Will adjust once the loss is regained or I turn 60, whichever comes first (I’m 52 now). I want something completely removed from the market, which I view as the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.

A good rule of thumb is to subtract your age from 110 and that’s the percentage of your assets you should have in stock.
 
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