O’Brien sh*t his pants again
- Thread starter JoeBot409
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I am glad he left us for the pros. He is a decent coach but he gets caught up in his emotions some times and makes boned headed calls.
LOL. I'd take him back in a heartbeat. We certainly would not be on our 4th offense in 7 years. When was the last time you heard another coach tell the media that they were out coached by CJF?? Never.
I am glad he left Coach Franklin is a huge upgrade.
Is this the Dueling Debbie Downers thread?
Three 11 win seasons in four years, for only the 2nd time in program history, definitely shows how awful James Franklin is as a coach.
But Franklin’s not. Glad Mr. Ego is gone. Chances are he will be looking for work at the end of the season.
When was the last time anyone asked. Geez this anti-Franklin animus is ridiculous. Knowledgeable fans know Franklin is an upgrade over O’Brien. I guess you thought going for it on 4th and 1 from your own 30 early in the game is brilliant coaching, huh? LMAO.
I'll always respect BOB for keeping this program breathing when things could have been much, much worse.
The 2012 Iron Lions was a team for the ages. Credit first and foremost to kids like Mauti and Zordich, but BOB deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He kept the program from falling apart completely, and CJF came in and brought it back to the life. It was the perfect combination. Two men who were absolutely right for the moments in which they took over this program.
So, no ill will on my part.
He's no MATT RHULE, though
The 2012 Iron Lions was a team for the ages. Credit first and foremost to kids like Mauti and Zordich, but BOB deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He kept the program from falling apart completely, and CJF came in and brought it back to the life. It was the perfect combination. Two men who were absolutely right for the moments in which they took over this program.
So, no ill will on my part.
He's no MATT RHULE, though
Analytics will tell you that going for it on 4th and 1, especially when you’re a big underdog, is a good move. However, it will blow everyone’s minds until it becomes more of a norm.
BOB did great job with the offense while at PSU. He is a very good offensive mind, but an average NFL head coach and horrendous GM. The Hopkins trade was the worst trade in years.
He seems to hate recruiting so I don’t seem him back in college unless he is desperate to be a head coach again.
He seems to hate recruiting so I don’t seem him back in college unless he is desperate to be a head coach again.
BOB is a good coach, but an awful, emotional GM. It’s the latter that will get him canned in Houston.
The NFL is about talent. BOB has jettisoned too much of it and overpaid for marginal replacements.
The NFL is about talent. BOB has jettisoned too much of it and overpaid for marginal replacements.
I'll take Franklin any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm pretty sure your issues aren't just with his offense. The coaches aren't saying that they were out coached because CJF out-recruited them several years ago and every year since and Penn State was supposed to win. Out coaching is what you do when you have less talent or equal talent to the other guy. Other than Ohio State and maybe some years Michigan that really doesn't apply in the league any more.
Seriously...plus, we get another day of clueless announcers bashing a coach for scoring a TD after being down 15 and going for two, since you “have to make it a one score game”. As I’ve said before, if you made a Venn diagram of those that can coach/announce football with those that understand the math, you’d have about 5 people on earth that overlap (and that’s being generous).
I'm assuming you mean that they were down by 15, scored and went for 2 to make it a 7 point game instead of 8? (Only saw the end of this game)
In the NFL, I say going for 2 is a good idea. Those 30 yard XPs aren't a gimme.
In college, you kick the XP until you are going for the tie. The pressure of defending a 2-pt conversion up by 2 is much higher than when up 9.
NE tried similar down 5 vs Seattle tonight. Of course, Seattle used the momentum from that stop to score another touchdown and go up by 12.
I can't think of many 4th-and-short plays relatively deep in your own territory that worked out. I'm sure there are some scoring drives sparked by making it on a 4th down like that. I just can't think of any off hand. But when it doesn't work it's usually the kind of thing that people find memorable even decades later depending on the significance of the game. I think of Penn State's tie vs. FSU in the 1967 Gator Bowl and Ohio State's loss to Florida in the 2007 BCS title game.
And the pressure to make it isn’t also higher? Do you think you are that much more likely to convert a 2 point conversion when cutting it from 2 to a tie, than converting it to cut it from 9 to 7?
That Dallas game today was the textbook example of why you go for two early, knowing that they needed two more scores.
I'm playing to the psychology of demoralizing a defense after scoring twice to get the score within 2. I don't think the offense is any more likely to convert a 2pt conversion at any point of the game; if they were, you would see a lot more attempts.
Timing and momentum are crucial. I've never been one to like any decision that risks momentum. The best coaches balance this.
BOB seems to do that in game where he thinks he cannot win. It is a bad message early in a game.
Relative to BOB and CJF, BOB was great for what we needed at the time: hard-nosed, no bullshit, enthusiastic coach that had a chip on his shoulder. I feel like CJF is a better long term coach but it is hard to compare given the environment in which the two coached. IMHO, this is a huge year for CJF in that his teams haven't done well when they didn't have Saquon Barkley. SB was in the top five best college RBs of all time and carried this team, IMHO.
Relative to BOB and CJF, BOB was great for what we needed at the time: hard-nosed, no bullshit, enthusiastic coach that had a chip on his shoulder. I feel like CJF is a better long term coach but it is hard to compare given the environment in which the two coached. IMHO, this is a huge year for CJF in that his teams haven't done well when they didn't have Saquon Barkley. SB was in the top five best college RBs of all time and carried this team, IMHO.
We were 11-2 last year and as much as I love Barkely he isn't the reason we may have not fulfilled everyone's expectations.
I'd put it more on the WR's and defense.
JMO but I don't think RB has been the "issue".
just about everyone on the team felt they underperformed last year. MN loss was inexcusable. Memphis game wasn't our best and we were fortunate to beat Pitt. Still, a good year.
This would have been our year but tOSU is still far above us in terms of quality of program year in and year out.
Again, this isn't a cut on CJF. I think he's a great coach and am happy to have him. Is he the best coach? Right now, I wouldn't put him in the top five. But he's a very good coach and a great ambassador for the PSU brand.
I'm sure everyone on the team thinks they under performed that they didn't go undefeated and win the NCS, at least I would hope so. I'm looking at from my perspective as a fan. I was disappointed with the Minny loss but I don't think it was because we didn't have Barkley. I thought it was more on the WR's and some questionable defensive schemes against Minny. Same with Memphis it wasn't the offense that was the issue.
The reason I think this is a big year is that we need some development out of the WR's, not only for the teams success but for recruiting. Same with the DL. I think we see that growth in both the Offensive play calling, Clifford's play and the WR's. I am putting my faith in KC.
and O's
Yes but we might still not have ever recruited an offensive lineman. Without getting into the Xs and O's IMO
OB was a good game PLAN manager- especially on offense
he was less good as a game DAY manager - too many 4th down go for it's for my taste - Advantage OB by a lot
Defense - I'll give it a push. between the two
Recruiting - OB in his short time here didn't seem to understand the balance required in recruiting. he was good at skill position's [if you view Hack as a plus which when talking recruiting you should] but seemed to care less for lineman. - Advantage CJF by a similar margin to OB's offensive advantage
Face of the program - Huge advantage CJF. - OB was a Belicheat clone. Dismissive, dour, arrogant. more about him than the players. That works in the NFL especially with 5-6 rings and can work in college [see Saban] also if you have 6 rings and run a semi pro football factory. We are not and never will be that kind of program [thankfully] so his approach is not what I want on a college football coach.
Give me CJF all day long
I think you are conflating a lot of what I have said. CJF's biggest seasons were largely due to #26 IMHO. To me, the Minny game, the two losses to MSU, the big leads squandered versus tOSU, the rose bowl loss to USC and the loss to Kentucky were really bad games to lose. it seems that its always something with PSU. The elite teams don't lose those kinds of games. For example, against Minny sometimes you do have to tip your cap to their O scheme (and we hired their guy which I am excited about) but we also could have played better offensively and outscored them. We haven't developed a good OL in a decade and we've had some questionable OL coaches.
I love PSU and am very pleased CJF has gotten the team into this position considering the last ten years. But I feel like there have been some glaring mistakes made. Most are game time decisions but there have been some position coach hirings that didn't work. Another example is Roof. he was a very good DC but the staff made a major mistake that pissed off his wife and we lost him. fortunately, we had another good DC but you just can't let those things happen.
You’re right. Picking up a first down in your own territory is never going to be a memorable event, fourth down or not. However, people will remember it blowing up in your face. I’m sure the conservative nature of most head coaches explains a lot of the resistance to analytics.
That still doesn’t mean it’s the correct call. You win games by scoring points. In order to score points you need to keep the offense on the field by getting first downs. Your odds of gaining a first down are really good if you only need a yard. Obviously factors such as score, strength of your defense, faith in your RB/O line, and time all play a factor. But the math tells us that coaches should be going for 4th and short, even in your own territory, far more than they are.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Wins isn't a worthwhile metric IMO unless it's over 'Top Ten' or Top 25' teams. I'd go (Franklin's six years):
- CFP Appearances (0)
- Conference Championships (1)
- NY6 Bowl Appearances/Wins (4/2)
- Top 25 Record (at time of game - 8-14)
- Bowl Wins (3-3)
- W/L Record (56-23; 42-11 since 2016)
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Yes. Because if all you care about is winning, then a win over Rutgers is the same as any other win. Raise your bar. Wins over ranked teams is the better metric. Conference championships is the better metric. If you look at Joe's massive number of wins count how many were against Maryland, Rutgers, Cincinnati, etc....
Ok. I’ll turn it around. If wins aren’t a worthwhile metric then a loss to Rutgers shouldn’t impact your opinion of Franklin.
One of the hallmarks of a good program is that you beat the teams you’re supposed to beat. Franklin has done that. One of the biggest knocks OSU fans have about Urban Meyer is that he would sometimes lay an egg against a team like Purdue. Beating those teams still matter.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Both are important, but not as important as the others on my list. Easy wins don't help as much as bad losses hurt. Just look at last year - bad loss to Minnesota derails the season. Prior years bad loss to Pitt and MSU derails the season. My opinion of Franklin is very high - he's just not lived up to his own expectations.
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