latest Suriano news
- Thread starter dunkej01
- Start date
That argument means all the B1G schools are in the same boat. The demise of B1G wrestling will be right around the corner.
Where were all the tears for Cortez when he lost his year? Oh, that's right, there weren't any.
I don't see any problem with making a kid live with the terms of a scholarship agreement.
A favorite line from my fraternity days, which I will apply to NJ as a whole
NJ is a sunny place for shady people ........................peace and love, peace and love
NJ is a sunny place for shady people ........................peace and love, peace and love
I wasn't "saying" anything. I was asking about his situation.
Can't make generalizations about NJ , anymore than you can about PA. This is my NJ:
http://www.njskylands.com/tour-mount-tabor
http://www.njskylands.com/tour-mount-tabor
Agreed. So many in this thread seem to think anything they read on the internet is true for some reason. As of now the actual facts we know in this situation are pretty much ZERO.
You forgot the word legally. Otherwise that was EXACTLY what I was trying to convey.
But if anyone thinks it doesn't happen from time to time in college athletics without that discussion release ... I'll sell a bridge connecting every town in the SEC.
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Not true any more in the BIG. See link to article. BIG schools now have only 4 year ships.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...ntees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes
The contract argument isn't viable. Coaches sign contracts all the time and then break them for better/different opportunities with little penalties. Highly sought after coaches are able to negotiate the terms of their contracts, college athletes cannot. I'm totally cool with a binding contract as long as both sides can negotiate terms. Top athletes like Hall and Suriano should be able to put waivers in the terms of their scholarship just like top coaches do in their contracts. PSU/others schools can then choose to agree or not agree. Scholarship percentage/admission should be part but not all of the negotiating points. Everything should be on the table. It's kind of like athletes negotiating no trade clauses into contracts. I realize this can get messy and I am not advocating financial incentives beyond a full scholarship but no reason not to be able to leverage freedoms including ability to transfer without penalty. Based on the current rules this seems to be a moot point but if I were repping Suriano/he really wants to leave I would be prepping an argument about unfair playing field for athletes in terms of scholarship rules and looking at legal options.
With the disclaimer that I have yet to listen to this morning's FRL, but the gist of it that CP is stating that he heard PSU will not issue a release. I'll get around to it.
If you saw my post earlier in this thread - what the hell is all the uproar about (wait, I know what it's about, but will get to that later). VERY RECENTLY, Cael & Co. pretty much had no idea what was going on. He (Suriano) just didn't come back up and also, very importantly, wasn't communicating with anyone. In addition, I posted - and this is just 100% speculation on my part, but I will say I am familiar with many of the players there and know how things go - that most of the info that WAS floating around, pretty much had to be coming from the RU camp.
So is it any surprise to anyone that at this point there is not being a release offered. VERY RECENTLY there wasn't even one being asked for and who knows if that actually has happened yet. So if you are talking to a source from the PSU side, do you think the answer will just be "yeah, we're going to give him a release"??????? And the alternative from the other side "well, he needs a release from PSU and that will be no problem"????????
Bottom line is, yes, as Willie posted - he's not a journalist. He was a pretty good one at one time - at least in the wrestling world - but that's not his job anymore. And the job that he does do that we see now includes an entertaining segment of a couple of guys who know an awful lot about wrestling, sitting around and shooting the bull about wrestling. If you want it to be fully resourced, fact checked, analyzed, and double confirmed by direct sources go back and tune in to the NYT wrestling podcast. Oh yeah, that's right.
Information is not easy to come by out of the PSU camp. Much easier to come by out of other camps. Even what info that does come out of PSU almost never comes directly from Cael, so you have to put the translation factor in as well.
I have no further information than I had last week but I do know:
1) I love FRL and am happy to have the guys talking wrestling no matter what. Happy for them to share any nuggets of info they can glean, whether they are confirmed or rumor, analyzed correctly or not. It's up to the consumer (us) to do that when digesting this. It's not a reporting service. If CP had info that he had confirmed directly and fact-checked, there would be an article put in print. This isn't print.
2) Some PSU fans will overreact to this and jump to defend Cael and his policy, when nobody really knows what it is or what it will be.
3) Some Iowa /and certain Minny/ fans will jump to bash Cael and his policy, when nobody really knows what it is or what will be.
4) I will remain steadfast in my belief that releases should almost always be given, but also acknowledge that it should be a process that should be investigated and taken some time with. Not to just be thrown around willy-nilly as winds do change frequently with the young. And the high maintenance.
5) The PSU staff is hard to get things out of. The circle of fans that have a ton of information about what it going on is not big. I wouldn't consider myself one of them. One guy that I know well that I think is, well, there are times when he's been completely wrong. There are a lot of PSU fans that will speculate about what is going on, however.
6) There are a ton , well a few lol - just a joke - but almost all of them - of RU fans that will speculate about what is going on. I've never heard more wrestling talk, most of it just bat-sh&t crazy wrestling talk, than when I've had the pleasure of talking wrestling with jerzey guys. Not shy about sharing loudly an uninformed opinion.
7) Almost no fans will practice the patience required to sit this one out until the dust clears, there's been a lot of communication between the parties (if that ever happens at all, sometimes it doesn't), the situation has been analyzed and a decision has been made.
8) No matter what happens, PSU is still winning the title this year and for the foreseeable future.
If you saw my post earlier in this thread - what the hell is all the uproar about (wait, I know what it's about, but will get to that later). VERY RECENTLY, Cael & Co. pretty much had no idea what was going on. He (Suriano) just didn't come back up and also, very importantly, wasn't communicating with anyone. In addition, I posted - and this is just 100% speculation on my part, but I will say I am familiar with many of the players there and know how things go - that most of the info that WAS floating around, pretty much had to be coming from the RU camp.
So is it any surprise to anyone that at this point there is not being a release offered. VERY RECENTLY there wasn't even one being asked for and who knows if that actually has happened yet. So if you are talking to a source from the PSU side, do you think the answer will just be "yeah, we're going to give him a release"??????? And the alternative from the other side "well, he needs a release from PSU and that will be no problem"????????
Bottom line is, yes, as Willie posted - he's not a journalist. He was a pretty good one at one time - at least in the wrestling world - but that's not his job anymore. And the job that he does do that we see now includes an entertaining segment of a couple of guys who know an awful lot about wrestling, sitting around and shooting the bull about wrestling. If you want it to be fully resourced, fact checked, analyzed, and double confirmed by direct sources go back and tune in to the NYT wrestling podcast. Oh yeah, that's right.
Information is not easy to come by out of the PSU camp. Much easier to come by out of other camps. Even what info that does come out of PSU almost never comes directly from Cael, so you have to put the translation factor in as well.
I have no further information than I had last week but I do know:
1) I love FRL and am happy to have the guys talking wrestling no matter what. Happy for them to share any nuggets of info they can glean, whether they are confirmed or rumor, analyzed correctly or not. It's up to the consumer (us) to do that when digesting this. It's not a reporting service. If CP had info that he had confirmed directly and fact-checked, there would be an article put in print. This isn't print.
2) Some PSU fans will overreact to this and jump to defend Cael and his policy, when nobody really knows what it is or what it will be.
3) Some Iowa /and certain Minny/ fans will jump to bash Cael and his policy, when nobody really knows what it is or what will be.
4) I will remain steadfast in my belief that releases should almost always be given, but also acknowledge that it should be a process that should be investigated and taken some time with. Not to just be thrown around willy-nilly as winds do change frequently with the young. And the high maintenance.
5) The PSU staff is hard to get things out of. The circle of fans that have a ton of information about what it going on is not big. I wouldn't consider myself one of them. One guy that I know well that I think is, well, there are times when he's been completely wrong. There are a lot of PSU fans that will speculate about what is going on, however.
6) There are a ton , well a few lol - just a joke - but almost all of them - of RU fans that will speculate about what is going on. I've never heard more wrestling talk, most of it just bat-sh&t crazy wrestling talk, than when I've had the pleasure of talking wrestling with jerzey guys. Not shy about sharing loudly an uninformed opinion.
7) Almost no fans will practice the patience required to sit this one out until the dust clears, there's been a lot of communication between the parties (if that ever happens at all, sometimes it doesn't), the situation has been analyzed and a decision has been made.
8) No matter what happens, PSU is still winning the title this year and for the foreseeable future.
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If I understand this ramble, you seem to be saying that the contract is unconscionable. Good luck there.
That's reasonable speculation, because it's pretty easy to infer that there's already been a lot of communication, given the excitement on the Rutgers board and the steady stream of fairly specific rumors. Not to mention the continued non-resolution (as I imagine the parties are investigating workarounds).
But it also raises a good chicken and egg question, because the NCAA rule prohibits communication between the athlete and the purported new school prior to the purported old school issuing a permission-to-contact letter.
You may write to a new school to let them know you are interested in transferring but coaches and athletics staff at the new school cannot discuss transfer opportunities with you until they have received the permission-to-contact letter from your current school.
But here's the chicken/egg problem: How can the student-athlete know, before he's asked for the permission-to-contact letter, that he's interested in transferring to the new school without first talking to the people most germane to making that decision, namely the coaches?
Maybe the play in the system is that the only restricted types of discussion are those that relate to "transfer opportunities," but it's easy to see where things can get fuzzy if you're, say, discussing with the coaches where you might fit in the lineup. It's not literally about transferring, but very much a prerequisite to the discussed scenario. My guess is that the NCAA would take a broad view of what constituted a "transfer opportunity" discussion and deem my hypothetical as circumvention and too cute.
But that still leaves you with a chicken/egg problem, where the rules implicitly require student-athletes to fly blind if they want a transfer to x school, unable to discern why it is they'd want to get a permission-to-contact letter to x particular school in the first place. But as others are rightly pointing out, there are a ton of assumptions and obligations that are baked into the existing relationship, including scholarship money, coaching considerations, recruiting considerations both long-term and short, and so on.
It'd be stupid to take a hard line position on who's in the right without knowing a ton of backstory (and $ numbers) we're not privy to, so I won't bother. But it's probably not an accident that recruiting drama seems to happen more often at each end of the lineup, where there's less flexibility. Nick leaving would leave PSU in the lurch at 125. Maybe Nick feels owed for stepping into the lineup without the benefit of a redshirt year, and maybe trapped at a weight class he would rather eat/build out of. But how many wrestlers are just handed a weight class for four years at the premier D1 program in the country? All that comes back to the greater difficulty in finding a 125 replacement than any other weight, and I bet this drama wouldn't play out anywhere else except HWT.
Dice, "a decision has been made", is that a decision as in Nick stays or Nick is going? If going, the whole release part and where he goes really doesn't matter. PSU needs to find another 125 pounder in that case and is still most likely winning a bunch of NCAA titles over the next decade.
You mean I need a reason?
A lot of kids who transfer go to schools that had recruited them out of HS. So it's not a real stretch to think they were already familiar enough with those programs before requesting a discussion release.
I almost put that same point in a parenthetical but it's not true across the board and so can't be relied on from a policy-making point of view by the NCAA.
Dice didn't say a decision was made, rather most fans are too impatient to wait for it.
Except those rules are not a secret and are available to all scholarship student-athletes. If the information from NCAA.org and the eligibility center is properly read as it should be by any parent with kids being recruited, they are aware. Sure, feelings change once you're in a program but if you want out--it's not difficult, you just need to accept what you're losing to do so. If it means that much for Suriano to transfer to RU, accept the fact that a year will be lost by B1G as Cortez did. Decide what is more important.
Agreed, but what I meant not clearly enough is that it's easier to ask for permission to talk with schools when you already know what schools based on prior relationships.
Ok, one way or another we will know by August 21st. Either is he is attending classes at PSU or he isn't.
Obviously the staff would like to know sooner than later. If he is leaving the sooner they know the better the chance that somebody could transfer in at 125, even if for just the spring semester.
If Suriano leaves, I doubt the staff is going to be working hard looking for a transfer in. Highly, highly doubt it.
If somebody wants to transfer in it's a different story. But very doubtful they would look much further than the room to field a 125 for 2017-18.
There is a reason the NCAA have transfer rules in place. They want to limit (as much they can) the NCAA from becoming a free agency market like pro sports. I personally don't have an issue with the transfer rules. The kids and parents know the rules before they ever choose a school. I think the bigger issue is with the consistency of the rules. Why did Cortez lose a year and not Micic? I know the answer, but whenever you start allowing some and not others it becomes a shit show. Especially when it seems like one or two schools (Michigan) get a favorable ruling. Instead of having some people decide who sits and who doesn't just have a rule and stick to it. Problem solved.
possibly, but don't circle that date as the definitive time you'll know. the first week at PSU is called Syllabus Week. The profs rarely teach more than introductory stuff, as the students are transferring classes, deciding whether or not to get books, etc. It's a huge party week at PSU, as most students are back but little to no academic stuff is getting done. Some students decide to miss all this "fun," and don't show up until a week later.
it's hard for fans to do, but I would advise that fans just sit back and let this play out. There may never be any type of announcement if Nick decides to remain at PSU.
Don't know the feasibility of this, but hypothetically, could Cael say no release this year, BUT, come back and man 125 this upcoming season and see how it goes and if he still wants out, he could approve it for next year? This way, PSU can try to recruit one of the upcoming HS seniors and Nick wouldn't have to sit out this season?I am not sure what the team's opinion of NS would be in that situation, but it is just a thought...
Highly unlikely...first he would need to get a release from PSU to formally talk to Rutgers. He might even have to enroll at Rutgers before Rutgers even approached the B1G. Not the hypothetical to go to the conference with, basically admitting tampering.
If Rutgers approached the B1G without the release, they probably receive some kind of sanction from the NCAA/B1G...could go as far as Suriano being ineligible to wrestle at Rutgers all together.
with all of the theories floating around, has someone from PSU actually come out and said "We have not given Suriano a release to talk to Rutgers (or anyone)? As has been stated many times in many threads, information is hard to get from the staff or admin. Just another point of conjecture.
Thought it was bought up here that Suriano and/or Rutgers were looking for some type of assurances or positive feedback that they would get the waiver.
That's ludicrous. I'm pretty sure the NCAA and B1G do not, like federal courts, issue advisory opinions.
agree, it's a fine line. but without restraints of some kind, it 'd be chaos. not sure there's a fair way to do this. but then, life's not fair.
The NCAA has nothing to do with the Big Ten hardship waiver so am not getting your point on that, and never did I say that the assurances or positive feedback would come directly from the Big Ten itself.
This^^^^^^^
And this is mainly why if you read my post, I feel like most of the rumor/innuendo is coming from the RU side.
RU side (hypothetical): Well, Nick really likes it here and wants to be at home. If that dang PSU would just give him his release and #FREENICKEY, all would be well, I'm sure a hardship waiver wouldn't be that hard to get, ahem. Releases are given out all the time and just look at Micic, and all those B1G grad transfers (rustles through papers frantically and gets his reading glasses out)
PU side (hypothetical): (silence), (more silence)
(two coaches whispering in the background) Why the good gracious are people asking me about releases and Nick Suriano????? Has anyone heard from him??????
126,700 views between the this thread and the locked one! Nick should be flattered people care about him so much!!
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