I take it Franklin wasn’t pleased with the refs vs. pitt
- Thread starter BobPSU92
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Franklin is all class, I just wish sometimes he’d take the low road... sometimes the truth needs to be highlighted so change can happen.
I thought they let Pitt get away with a lot of pass interference and some unnecessary stuff after the plays. My recording messed up at the end and I missed the "stopped clock" call. I thought the Pitt receiver did not make the first down marker. Anybody see that?
Also the Pitt player taking a swat at our guy right in front of the ref. How does he miss that?
I still don't understand what holding is. They obviously missed some on both sides.
Also the Pitt player taking a swat at our guy right in front of the ref. How does he miss that?
I still don't understand what holding is. They obviously missed some on both sides.
I thought the same on the first down call. Went back and watched it and without dissecting it didn’t feel it was too bad. The guy was coming back to the ball from well past the first down.
I agree with you. Unfortunately, the truth can be highlighted all day long and nothing will change. In the words of the late great Sir Freddie Laker, "it's like farting against thunder."
And Franklin's right, he'd just be fined and likely excoriated by the press.
If the player is running a "comeback route" like that and their own momentum takes them back past 1st Down Mark to make, they don't get "forward progress" to where they initially caught the ball. The ball is marked where the ball is positioned when the player is "down" under the rules. In this case, the ball was on the front-side of the player whose back was toward the direction ASWP was going as the player was lunging forward toward the QB to make the catch. The player landed in-bounds after running the diving "comeback" route and the ball was a good yard short of the mark at the point where the players knee touched down. Again, the offensive player does not get forward progress on this play.
Thanks for the explanation. It clearly wasn’t a yard short. The player basically squatted down there was no diving involved.
Honestly, they call too many penalties and how too many replays, I’m glad they kept the game moving yesterday. I saw Menet holding a bit, so there were a least a few that should have gone Pitts way.
However, Blacklege mentioned a helmet to helmet hit on Clifford? that didn’t get called and I thought the PI call was BS.
However, Blacklege mentioned a helmet to helmet hit on Clifford? that didn’t get called and I thought the PI call was BS.
The ball was well short of the 1st Down Mark to gain at the point where the receiver was down (i.e., the spot where the ball was when his knee touched the ground). The receiver absolutely voluntarily came back toward the QB and to the ground to catch the ball (you call it squating - I called it diving....you could call it a voluntary "slide" - it's all semantics and has nothing to do with the fact that the ball was way way short of the "line-to-gain" at the moment the receiver's knee touched, which is where the ball should have been marked since the receiver's own momentum took him back past the 1st Down Mark due to the route that the receiver choose to run. Receiver is not entitled to forward progress on that play.). The ball was on the front-side of the receiver who was facing, and coming toward, the QB due to the pattern he choose to run (the receiver's back was to the defender and downfield end of field and receiver was voluntarily moving back toward QB) - the ball absolutely was way short of 1st Down Mark at spot where the player touched hiself down via the sliding catch...and touched himself down in the field of play. The first and clisest official correctly marked the ball short of the 1st and wound his arm signalling clock operator to keep clock running which the clock operator did. It was a complete horseshit call for the 2nd Official in to change the spot, give the player a first down, stop the clock, add 5 seconds....then an additional 4 seconds.... and keep the clock stopped until ASWP snapped the ball (a period lasting at least 45 seconds from the time the player was Down In-bounds! Even on a 1st Down, which was horseshit, the clock only stops long enough for official to set the ball!). All of this bullshit, which directly contradicted the call of the closest official, was done without a "Review" of the play of any kind which is horseshit in itself as any such controversial play/mark inside of 2 minutes to play is supposed to be AUTOMATICALLY REVIEWED.
I’m not even saying it wasn’t short but I would be willing to bet unless there was another angle than they showed on tv that a review doesn’t change anything. You’re going off on a close play.
The 2nd Official ARBITRARILY CHANGED the call of the 1st, and closest, Official with no review - he's absolutely not supposed to do that, wtf are you talking about! The clock operator did precisely what the 1st, and colsest, Official signalled (1st Official indicated receiver was tackled in-bounds, short of line-to-make and clearly wound his arm signalling to the clock operator that the clock was to run (and this is absolutely the SJ's call to make - he is the party who makes the clock runs or stops signal to clock operator). Time went to zero as per the SJ's call. The 2nd Official in then changed the spot arbitrarily, added 9 seconds to the clock, kept the clock stopped literally until ASWP snapped the ball as he incorrectly ruled that the ASWP player was downed out-of-bounds (it's only supposed to stay stopped long enough to spot the ball on a 1st)... and made all of these changes versus the initial call by the 1st Official without a review of any kind whatsoever- but you have no problem with this. LOL
One more thing as I watched again...the tcf made contact with him at the 26.5-
holy crap...you’re Bushwood. I’m done here.
You are the first winner of the newly sanctioned BWI McAndrew Board "Socratic Wise Man Award." As the Bard of Avon (or some would have you believe Edward de Vere) once wrote, "Discretion is the better part of valor." Well done Sir!
*** Before I get attacked by one of the Shakespeare scholars here, let me record what he actually wrote, “The better part of Valour, is Discretion; in the which better part, I haue saued my life.” - Falstaff in Henry IV, Pt. 1
Also, this was not original with Shakespeare. It's traced back to Caxton in 1477.
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I thought that writing style looked familiar. This makes me happy. Bushwood is a fun and entertaining read.
I picked it up in the other thread where he referred to Pitt as ASWP....no one else does that.
He had good reason not to be pleased. Several bad spots of the ball favoring Pitt, and several blatant non- calls that would have benefited Penn State. It appeared that one official simply ignored Jan Johnson who Was frantically signaling ( for at least 2-3 seconds) a time out to him..... less than 5 yards away and clearly in his field of vision.... it was a 4th down conversion play. Several non-call holds on WR . Penn State benefited from 1 non call hold on Menet. The officiating seemed severely disproportionate....Way beyond the norm
The end of the game felt like ‘72 US vs Russia hoops. Refs kept giving them a chance until they finally won. Glad we overcame.
I just watched the replay. Pitt receiver clearly caught the ball for a first down (27 yard line) and was pushed back behind the line to gain by Castro-Fields. Forward progress gave him the first down but was in bounds. SJ nearest the play also spotted the ball at the 27 but incorrectly signaled for the clock to keep moving. Should have stopped the clock to move the chains. The clock hit :00, and they realized they made a mistake. They correctly put :09 back on the clock. Unfortunately for PSU this bailed out Pitt and allowed them to get one more play off.
Side note: you are correct that the official that spotted the ball placed it at the 26 not the 27. But Pitt only needed the 27 for the first down. Pitt did get an extra yard, but it was kind of irrelevant.
You're making crap up - I just watched it (I have it taped). First of all, the receiver was running a comeback pattern and wet toward the ground to cradle the ball in as he went to the ground - as evidenced by his back being toward downfield, facing QB and moving toward QB when making catch. He wasn't entitled to "Forward Progress" on that catch as he was moving that direction by his own volition. Secondly, you clearly didn't watch replay because the Referee announced on his mic to "Add 5 seconds to Game Clock, player tackled in-bounds" (i.e., clock is supposed to start immediately after it is spotted "ready-for-play"). Clock is reset to 5 seconds, ball is spotted "ready-for-play", both teams go into formation... but the officials don't wind clock as Puckett is having feature-length conversations with the ASWP sideline changing the play based on PSU's Formation. This goes on for literally 10-15 seconds and CJF is ripshit because ASWP is being permitted to change their plays based on PSU's defensive formation without the clock running instead of being forced to spike the ball to stop the clock as it is supposed to be under the rules! Finally CJF calls TO because he's uncomfortable with the situation and figures ASWP has time for only 1 more play anyway. The ACC Officials then inexplicabbly changed the clock a 2nd time after CJF called TO (illegally creating a free 2nd Play for ASWP - it was done with no review whatsoever AFTER the ball had been spotted "teady-to-play" with 5 seconds remaining as per the Referees clear instructions and CJF called a TO). And don't tell me I'm wrong as the tape replay does not lie and what transpired does not remotely match what you claim.
Ahh, first time I heard the officiating question.....It was a specific question about the punt return interference....
He clearly hit him a split second after returner touched the ball...
He clearly hit him a split second after returner touched the ball...
I watched it too. Youtubetv has great DVR, even on the phone. He clearly caught the ball at the 27 and was immediately tackled, which took him backwards, by Castro-Fields. In anybody’s book that’s forward progress for a first down. The SJ was correct on the spot but incorrect winding the clock. Clock should’ve stopped with :09 seconds on the clock. The clock should’ve started running when the referee blew the whistle ready to play. Franklin was understandably upset because by winding the clock, and then fixing it, Pitt was able to take their time getting a play in. Pitt first down at the 27 with 9 seconds left was the correct call. Doesn’t Medicare cover eye doctor visits?
My overall point is there are good and bad calls every game that go for and against PSU. This idea that the ACC officials somehow had it in for PSU is idiotic and tinfoil hat stuff. I could just as easily point to the fact that Castro-Fields had a face mask penalty not called on the previous 4th down. That would’ve given Pitt an extra 15 yards. The real takeaway in this situation is that Pitt had a chance to tie the game in the final seconds. As a PSU fan, that should be far more concerning than an ACC official getting the correct spot but incorrect time.
You laughably continue to make bullshit up - isn't there a prescription to fix habitual bullshitters who make crap up contrary to the facts as confirmed by the video? Again, the Referee clearly and unmistakably says to set Game Clock at "5 Seconds" and adds "player tackled in field of play" (i.e., clock should run after ball is spotted "ready for play"). You keep claiming clock was set to 9 seconds when ball was set ready for play and this proves you absolutely aren't looking at the replay when you make this claim because it is complete-&-utter made-up bullshit as the Broadcast clearly proves (I'm looking directly at the Broadcast taped using Xfinity's DVR....and you're absolutely full of crap, the Referee announces from his mic, and can clearly be heard instructing to set the Game-Clock to 5 seconds and noting player downed in field of play [i.e., clock to start immediately after it is spotted "ready-to-play"]. This is precisely what was done - clock was set to 5 seconds, ball was spotted "ready-to-play", both teams took formation.... and the ACC Officials didn't start the clock (which would have forced ASWP to spike ball to stop clock) - instead allowing Pickett to just stand behind the LOS in shotgun formation and communicate with the ASWP sideline changing the play based on PSU's Defensive Formation. This literally went on for 10 to 15 seconds with Franklin stupified that the Officials intentionally were not starting the clock..., so he called TO because he wasn't comfortable with situation and ASWP only had time for 1 play so he wanted to discuss defensive set/strategy. It wasn't until AFTER Franklin called the TO that the ACC Officials inexplicably set Game Clock to 9 Seconds with no Review creating a free 2nd play for ASWP out of thin air (Fowler and Blackledge even discussed how inexplicable it was that the Officials added time to clock AFTER the TO). You clearly aren't getting your scenario from the actual broadcast because they're absolutely counter-factual to what transpired.
As you can see in the image Pitt player caught the ball for a first down. His forward progress is stopped the second Castro-Fields starts tackling. The play was over with 9 seconds to go. Clock should’ve stopped with 9 seconds to reset the chains and then start when referee blows the whistle ready for play. The clock never stopped because SJ signalled, incorrectly, to keep it running. Referee did, mistakenly, say 5 seconds when it should've been 9 seconds, which is clearly seen on tv. The officials huddled, discussed it, and realized it was 9 seconds. Franklin was irate(understandably) because their mistake gave Pitt time to lineup and call a play. Again, a mistake with the clock by the officials. But the correct call was first down ( something you previously claimed was incorrect) with 9 seconds left.
Was that the play he was running the ball toward the sideline, or a different play?
You keep creating bullshit that the Broadcast demonstrates did not happen the way you claim. In addition you show a blurry still shot where you can't even see ball! Both players were racing back toward QB near sideline as receiver was running a comeback route. Receiver went toward ground to cradle ball in - and of course C-F was following behind. The player cradles the ball in right at the line and his momentum keeps carrying him toward QB - the ball is short of the mark at the spot his knee touches down (you can't see any of this in the absurd still shot you posted - you can't see anything in the shot you posted). Receiver does not get forward progress on this route - he was moving toward QB by his own choice. Then you make up a bunch of bullshit about what then transpired! Referee instructed that clock be set at 5 seconds WHICH WAS DONE contrary to your incessant BS claims. The ball was spotted "ready-for-play" with 5 seconds on clock as per Referee's clear instruction and both teams took formation... - the only thing that didn't happen that was supposed to happen was that the ACC Officials did not start the clock as they were supposed to - instead, they allowed both teams to go into formation and Puckett to communicate with his sideline changing their play based on the defensive set PSU assumed for 10 to 15 seconds (this is NOT the way it is supposed to be Mr. Make It Up As You Go Along - the clock is supposed to be started immediately after being set "ready-for-play" in that situation forcing offensive team to spike the ball to stop clock). Franklin did not call a TO until this bullshit went on for 10 to 15 seconds (i.e., not starting clock after spotting ball "ready-to-play" and allowing Pickett to communicate with the sidelines to change the play.... and showing no sign they were going to start clock until ASWP snapped it...). Franklin absolutely called TO AFTER clock was set to 5 seconds as per Referees instruction and ball set "ready-to-play" and the teams were in formation (and making dynamic adjustments) for over 10 seconds with the clock not running. It wasn't until after Franklin called TO that the ACC Officials wholesale changed the initial call WITHOUT any Review whatsoever resulting in a free 2nd play being created out of thin air for ASWP. You further prove how you make up facts with your bullshit by claiming the huddled up and changed call - the play WAS NOT REVIEWED Mr. Make-It-Up-As-You-Go-Along, they would have had no basis to change the Referees call. If the clock and spot needed to be reviewed, it is not their purview to do so (obvious reason being they have no access to review the video to make any such changes). Again, this proves how full of shit you are - they set the ball "ready to play" with 5 seconds as per the Referee's specific instruction - they never requested a "Booth Review" which is what they would have had to do if they thought additional adjustments possibly needed to be made (they would have had no basis to make any changes give that they have no access to review the play). By rule, it's mandatory that the play should have been reviewed because it was inside 2 minutes, but no Booth Review was done contrary to the rulebook - go figure!
I've never understood why the officials seem to be above reproach. Coaches and anybody else should be allowed to openly criticize them. Everyone else has to take it. Why not them?
Yeah, I don't get it. I can see it coaches said things like "the refs cheated" or "they were on the take". But just to offer valid criticisms? I don't get it either.
Wow, you’re a special kind of stupid aren’t you? I know you have egg on your face, as any reasonable observer sees that the Pitt receiver has the first, but some humble pie is called for on your part. Nobody, not the announcers, the PSU sideline, or anybody since has questioned the spot. Just you.
For the sake of argument, let’s say the Pitt receiver doesn’t have the ball in the picture above. If the Pitt receiver doesn’t have the ball, then clearly it’s defensive PI on Castro-Fields because he’s tackling him. Either way, first down Pitt.
Secondly, I have never witnessed an official not giving forward progress in this situation. If the receiver has the ball, which he clearly does, and is getting tackled, then the receiver gets the spot. I’ve never seen an official split hairs and say he was running a comeback route.
I never said the clock wasn’t set to 5 seconds. It was. What I did say was that the clock was incorrectly set to 5 seconds. I know you’re a little slow, but I feel confident you can see the difference. The clock should’ve been set to 9 seconds, which it eventually was after the TO.
Additionally, I never said the play was reviewed. What I did say was that the officials on the field discussed it during the TO. As far as I know they didn’t talk to the booth but maybe they did.
You show how little you know because officials on the field don’t request a booth review. The booth phones down to the field, not the other way around. The officials in the booth were BIG officials not ACC. Were the BIG officials also in on the conspiracy? The Russians? Illuminati?
There were mistakes, but they eventually got it correct. Unfortunately it allowed Pitt extra time. The overriding point is that this was not a case of somebody being out to get PSU.
Nobody said you can’t criticize officials. People do it all the time. It just comes off as small and petty, especially when there were calls that went both ways. It’s the type of things the Lair discusses and uses as an excuse.
BTW, nowhere have I said that Officiating impacted the outcome of the game in any meaningful way (including the final score). However, that does not mean the Officiating wasn't blatantly awful and very one-sided (including the inconsistent way contact was called in the defensive secondary). The reality is that it was a very defensive, low-scoring game - type of game where bad, biased officiating has the ability to have an impact. Franklin had every right to be upset with that horseshit officiating - the way they called the game, especially at the end of was complete horseshit.
Apparently somebody says you can't. Why are coaches afraid of getting fined if they do? Protective of incompetency, I suppose.
You're beyond a special kind of stupid. First you claim ball was set "ready for play" with 9 seconds after 1st Down catch... and Franklin called TO which is what stopped clock. Then you admit this was a complete bullshit claim and that the ball was actually spotted by the Officials "Ready-To-Play" with 5 seconds on Game-Clock AFTER, and as per, the Referee's official announcement made over the PA System from the middle of the field that can be learly heard, and seen, on the broadcast addressing this specific topic AFTER conferencing with his crew on the topic. Specifically, Referee said set game to 5 seconds and player was down in field of play (i.e., game clock to start immediately after ball is spotted). Then you ignore the fact that the clock was set to 5 seconds, the ball was spotted for play by ACC Crew and both teams assumed formations READY TO PLAY..... and that Franklin didn't call the TO until 10 to 15 seconds later when the ACC Officials refused to start the game-clock after setting the ball AND INSTEAD watched Pickett communicating with his sideline changing the offensive play and allowing him to do it for an eternity showing no sign that they were going to start the clock until ASWP and Pickett decided he wanted to snap the ball. You're notion that the ACC Officials were "huddled up" discussing the prior play during this period of time is utter tripe and completely made-up bullshit! It was at this point that Franklin called TO because what the ACC Officials were doing was patently contrary to the rulebook and creating a significant disadvantage for PSU. The ACC Officials did not make a second arbitrary wholesale change to the initial call until AFTER this whole scenario ended by Franklin taking a TO. Now you claim that the Referee willy-nilly decided what he clearly ruled and announced over the PA System wasn't right and should be changed - what would make him think that his prior decision which was discussed and announced was wrong, and should be changed without seeking reveiw of any kind, only you know. Why he would make no announcement regarding these substantive changes (especially the way they were being made contraducting his Formal Ruling and AFTER PSU took a TO based on the prior ruling) only you know. What his basis for making a change to his clearly announced official ruling without a review of any kind, only you know Mr. Make-It-Up-As-You-Go-Along. BTW, you're also full of shit and completely wrong that the on-field crew cannot request a Review if they're uncertain of a call - most especially when they're uncertain of things like the clock and spot of the ball. They didn't ask for a Review and arbitrarily changed their Official Call that was formally announced by the Referee and did so without telling anyone! No Mr. Make-It-Up-As-You-Go-Along, they aren't permitted to do that especially without having the play Reviewed.
What? Who is talking about message board posters criticizing officials? I'm talking about coaches doing it. And I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about coaches as well.
