I think Penn State would've similar to Maryland or Rutgers. Certainly a fine University but not what we are. To say PSU isn't a significantly better place because of JVP is to vastly underrate his influence as an educator and fund raiser and philanthropist. When your football coach gives millions to the library everybody follows suit.
HELP IS ON THE WAY: Sue and Jay to run for Penn State Board of Trustees
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
- Start date
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. The OG BOT has been trying to "move on" for 5 years now, and it's gotten us nowhere. In fact they've caused tremendous damage to the university. Had they stood up for the university and it's employees, the scandal would be in the review mirror 4.5 years ago, just like every other scandal at every other school.
That guy's been dead for quite some time now. Probably best not to give him too much thought.
The "Troll Factor" of your posts has reached a new low. You are being paid double time tonight (triple time on weekends), you need to improve your game. Maybe your strength is being sapped by trying to "multi-task" while posting?......
I get paid quadruple for every time you post that gif. Thanks for loving it so much.The "Troll Factor" of your posts has reached a new low. You are being paid double time tonight (triple time on weekends), you need to improve your game. Maybe your strength is being sapped by trying to "multi-task" while posting?......
Clearly you didn't. Because it doesn't support your argument.
"Make the University a top philanthropic priority to the very best of one’s personal ability" doesn't translate to "donate large sums of money" by any objective measure.
So again, why aren't you running for a trustee seat?
No, they are not.
Surely you understand the distinction between "expectation" and "condition."
Fact: Your supposition that one must be wealthy to run for an alumni-elected seat on the BOT is completely unfounded.
I will acknowledge that the availability of resources does make fighting unjust decisions such as withholding information from Trustees that is reasonably related to the performance of their duties is very helpful.
By the way, I am sorry to hear of your health issues. I hope you get well. Life is too short.
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$$$$Nice retort! Look at the "big brain" on getmyjive11 Here's a few shekels to buy yourself a pizza and beer after pleasuring yourself!
The "expectation" is still there, and I respect it.
Oh, yes, in theory, someone not wealthy may be elected to the board, Governor of Pennsylvania, or President of the United States, but in reality, it is quite rare. I think you do understand that point.
If I did have a great deal of money, support staff to transport me, and a solution to high tuition costs, I might run.
The "expectation" is still there, and I respect it.
Oh, yes, in theory, someone not wealthy may be elected to the board, Governor of Pennsylvania, or President of the United States, but in reality, it is quite rare. I think you do understand that point.
If I did have a great deal of money, support staff to transport me, and a solution to high tuition costs, I might run.
A solution to high tuition costs, now that's a subject about which we can agree.
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There is an extremely high correlation between (1) the population of a state, and (2) the quality of its land-grant institution.
This isn't a coincidence.
PSU is the 6th largest state in America and we're about the 6th best land-grant institution in America. Cornell, Cal-Berkeley and Illinois definitely ahead of us. We're on a level with Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio State, Florida and Texas A&M. E.g., anywhere from 4th to 9th, depending on who is doing the rankings.
Those would very, very, very, very (repeat very 10000000 times) likely be facts even if Joe Paterno had never stepped foot in State College, PA. Much of our ranking has been pre-destined by simply being in a large state.
I wouldn't be dissing Maryland or Rutgers either. They really aren't that far behind us.
I think you might mean "now."
Actually, there may be some common ground berween us on structural reforms to to the Board. While I am able to quote the Bylaws, and various and sundry rules, you have not once seen me type that I think the rules are good.
You also have not seen me type, for example, that the trustees, generally, should not have access to these documents. You have regarding trustees, or potential trustees, that have an individual conflict of interest, but not generally.
You raise an interesting point. Which begs the question: can you name any of the investigators from the trial in which you may be testifying?I think you might mean "now."
Actually, there may be some common ground berween us on structural reforms to to the Board. While I am able to quote the Bylaws, and various and sundry rules, you have not once seen me type that I think the rules are good.
You also have not seen me type, for example, that the trustees, generally, should not have access to these documents. You have regarding trustees, or potential trustees, that have an individual conflict of interest, but not generally.
Cornell is strange in that it is considered a private university, yet happens to be comprised of seven undergraduate colleges, some of which are land grant/state funded colleges. Some will argue that those colleges are SUNY institutions, some will argue that those colleges are public, and some will argue that Cornell is just plain weird. I’ll raise my glass to the latter argument.
Expensive as hell tho.
So JVP contributed nothing of significance to the quality of education at PSU?
Well, I'm sure you would agree that he made Saturdays in the fall a tad more interesting than they otherwise would have been. But then, any coach off the street could have done what he did, I guess, us being in such a large state with high quality HS football for so many years.
But, same number of high-level profs, same number of applications, same amount of research dollars coming in, same amount of fund-raising, same focus on Success With Honor, etc.
We Are! Just another Michigan State in blue instead of green!
JoePa? More like JoePffft.
No wonder some of us on these boards are so outraged!
Cornell definitely is strange in terms of their set-up.
MIT is technically a land-grant University also. Massachusetts actually has two land-grant schools: MIT and UMass-Amherst. Amherst is definitely the more "traditional" land grant school. I'm kind of confused how Massachusetts has come to have two land-grant schools. A number of Southern states have two land-grant schools, a legacy of the days of racial segregation (e.g., Mississippi State and Alcorn State, NC State and North Carolina A&T, et cetera). Massachusetts seems to be the only non-Southern state with two, however.
I never said that.
It is a common opinion among some that we would be at an Virginia Tech, Oregon State or University of Tennessee (to name 3 other land-grant schools) level academically without Joe Paterno.
Doubtful. Population tends to be destiny as regards academics of a land-grant school. The numbers prove it out. 5 largest states are CA, IL, FL, NY and TX. All with VERY high quality land-grant schools. The same can be said for state number 6. No coincidence.
Fun fact: Penn State had 27 consecutive non-losing seasons immediately PRIOR to Joe Paterno becoming our head coach. Pretty damn good, huh? Even Joe only got to 22 consecutive non-losing seasons before 1988 happened.
My point there isn't to criticize Joe for 1988. It's to say that --- yes --- Joe did come into what was already a pretty good situation. Much like PSU academics were already pretty damn good prior to 1966!
Yeah, you pretty much said exactly that. (10 million times over, according to your post). You said PSU would be just as good academically if Joe had never set foot on campus.
Yes, Rip got PSU football into a consistently competitive state for those 16 seasons. Lots of nice 7-3, 6-4 seasons, a couple of bowls, and a few 5-5s in there to keep the non-losing season streak alive. Good man, good coach, we're all proud to have had him at PSU.
You're strongly implying that Joe more or less rode those coattails for the next 46 seasons, not really nudging the needle much at all, because in 1966 he inherited a competitive program. No consideration for the overall quality of the competition, the overall quality of college football, etc. that came about not long after the mid-60s. All even consideration.... 1955 same as 1975. 1965 same as 1985. Plug in any coach.... the table was already set.
This is about as disingenuous as you've been, Mich, and you've said some pretty disingenuous things lately. I think even Surma and Peetz would agree that JVP took a leading role in boosting PSU to a higher level in many, many, many (repeat 10000000 times) ways in academics, international recognition, athletics, etc.
Who is the athletic-related individual at Illinois, or California, or Cornell, or Florida, or Texas A&M (the land-grant institutions in the 5 states larger than Pennsylvania) --- that vaulted those land-grant institutions to their academic greatness?
I bet you have no answers to that question.
Yet --- the 6th largest state only has a great academic land-grant school because of a football coach? What makes us so unique in that regard?
I think you might mean "now."
Actually, there may be some common ground berween us on structural reforms to to the Board. While I am able to quote the Bylaws, and various and sundry rules, you have not once seen me type that I think the rules are good.
You also have not seen me type, for example, that the trustees, generally, should not have access to these documents. You have regarding trustees, or potential trustees, that have an individual conflict of interest, but not generally.
Corrected. Good catch. Thanks.
I did not say it was only due to Joe, but rather that Joe played a very significant role in our overall rise in national and international perception and standing on and off the field over time. No one can do that alone, and every institution needs a few exceptional leaders to raise its greatness to otherwise unknown levels. (That's where JVP comes in).
There is no doubt that a highly-successful athletic programs bring lots of publicity and focus and awareness to a school. It is up to the school to then use that publicity wisely and tell their academic story to those attentive eyes and ears. JVP pushed our BOT to do just that. And then he backed it up through his leadership in fund-raising, his contributions to academics, his Success With Honor approach, etc.
No doubt the other schools you've mentioned, at some point in their histories, had some increase in applications, and increased interest from academic leaders to teach and do research there, and an increase in research dollars, and an enhancement of their overall academic offerings at least in part due to some facet of athletics popularity and success. Might be relatively small, but it helps at some point or another. In PSU's instance, it was significant, and we have JVP to thank for leading that charge.
I could, but I won't.
At least at this point in time. I believe that the time will come when it will be make known, publicly.Let's just say that it would not necessarily be in a civil case. As I have indicated, I am not troubled by discovery. Note as well that I said, "could be called." That should imply that I have made the information known to the appropriate party.
BTW: It might raise the question, but it does not "beg" it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
There's a pretty significant difference between having "made something known" to a party involved in litigation and being a potential witness. Which is it?I could, but I won't.
Let's just say that it would not necessarily be in a civil case. As I have indicated, I am not troubled by discovery. Note as well that I said, "could be called." That should imply that I have made the information known to the appropriate party.
BTW: It might raise the question, but it does not "beg" it.
Look at the similar level of success and impact other college coaches in Pennsylvania have had. majors, walt harris, wanny, whoever coached temple years ago.
Joe was nothing special. He coached at a big school with a lot of in-state talent. Piece of cake.
Yes, if Jay is 1/2 as good a BOT member as he was an offensive coordinator/ QB coach I completely agree he would make one heck of a BOT member.
I believe Michigan is as well. And I did not know about MIT.
Checked that--UM is a "Sea Grant" and "Space Grant" university
Jay's father was a man of uncompromising integrity, who always did the right thing in life, no matter the consequence. If he is half the man his father was, he would be the best man on the planet for the job.
And here I thought all they were known for was half a national championship since 1950, the Unabomber, Larry Nassar, and covering up rape to protect the football program.
Yeah, for whatever reason (likely to find a way to minimize JVP's enormous impact on PSU), Mich is now concentrating on an almost negligible measure of school ranking - that of Land Grant Schools in relation to its state population. And instead of saying that not much would move that ranking, he is choosing to focus on saying that specifically Joe had / has no impact on that ranking.
That may or may not be true - it's a statistical correlation based on two measures - which also follows that absolutely no person would have any impact.... the ranking within that strict, confined measure morphs on its own, based solely on population. It ignores the far larger and more important aspects of ranking and perception and key factors relating to a University's ranking in other measures that matter much more.
He is describing the forest using one, old, isolated tree in this instance, and telling us that JVP had no impact on that tree. I chose to argue against that by citing softer measures that supplement and complement that ranking, even if it remains fairly static. For example, without JVP's involvement, the PSU BOT may have been content to let that Land Grant vs. population ranking ride and not move so quickly to enhance the overall via upgraded academics in emerging technologies, etc.
It's just Mich finding a way to denigrate JVP's legacy in a purposely confusing and marginal way, because by any important and impactful measure, JVP's legacy stands tall on its own.
Never mind that, [Edit: Aside from that] let's also ask why STD completely eliminated the thought that attys on the other side are the ones he needs to be worried about....
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I could, but I won't.
Let's just say that it would not necessarily be in a civil case. As I have indicated, I am not troubled by discovery. Note as well that I said, "could be called." That should imply that I have made the information known to the appropriate party.
BTW: It might raise the question, but it does not "beg" it.
JJinPhila touted this "may be called nonsense". He claimed to have inside knowledge of Gricar "being tossed down a flooded mine shaft by bikers after a drug deal". He was brought in by LE, questioned, and determined to be an internet clown with mental problems. It also got him summarily banned from the Court TV boards.
There might have been times that Jay reaped the benefit of who his father was, but there were likely way more times that it also hindered Jay. Joe was also harder on Jay than anyone else on his staff. So that wasn't exactly the wrong thing, I guess.
I guess when you can't name one time in his career that Joe did the wrong thing, you grasp at straws. Please stay on topic in future replies, and if you can't do so, don't reply.
Are you under the impression that Jay was the only coach's son to be hired on to his dad's staff? It is a far more common practice than you'd imagine, especially at the college level. Jay was unique in that JVP wanted him to gain experience elsewhere first (UVa, UConn) before joining the PSU staff.
It's easy to claim that Jay was not a good coach citing some isolated things. I don't know if he was ever going to be P5 HC material, but he was a good assistant coach overall. Jay was not on Joe's short list to succeed him as PSU's HC, as many assume.
I could, but I won't.
Let's just say that it would not necessarily be in a civil case. As I have indicated, I am not troubled by discovery. Note as well that I said, "could be called." That should imply that I have made the information known to the appropriate party.
BTW: It might raise the question, but it does not "beg" it.
What year did you graduate from Penn State?
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